Author Topic: 12"x12"x16' beams (Read 3207 times)

Ivey · « **on:** July 25, 2007, 01:02:42 pm »

Help on pricing beams.. Fellow called me and needed 24= 12"x12"x16' beams.(SYP)
I never cut and sold beams this large before, Told him that I could. What should I charge per B/F. I charge .50 B/F for framing lumber (SYP). Should I charge a little more because of size-- or a little less because of less cuts?

Thanks, Ivey

woodbeard · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:24:02 pm »

It seems odd, but it is best to charge more. Even though there is less sawing involved, there is proportionately more work in handling the logs/beams. Also, it is a very custom order, and logs that size and quality cost more than the ones you would saw 2x6 out of. Even if you charged $1 a bf, chances are the customer could not find the same beams at twice the price. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but it is to illustrate a point. You will have to figure for yourself how much more to charge based on your particular circumstances. Definitely don't charge less, though.

flip · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:29:06 pm »

Are you supplying the wood? I don't know much about SYP but it would seem to me that size and length would call for a premium. So, cost of logs+your labor (fuel, blades etc..)+mark up=what you charge. That looks to be about 192bf/beam or 4608bf for all of them. Average 10-12 cuts per log to make sure it be good and true, works out in my head to about $2300 in labor. I'd take that deal

Haytrader · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:39:57 pm »

Might as well round it up to $100 a beam.

flip · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2007, 02:07:58 pm »

That is if you don't have to fell, buck, drag out, or limb 'em and if you have the support equipment to easily handle them. If it takes an hour to drag off and stack the $$ goes up.

Engineer · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:00:14 pm »

I cut a bunch of 8x12x16' beams for my house, and lemme tell ya, if I was sawing them for someone else, I'd have charged a premium. Those are a bear to handle. I don't even want to think about how difficult a 12x12x16 out of SYP would be to deal with. If you have the big forklift or the crane, fine, but it's still your time and effort. I'd be trying to get more than $100 apiece for them, and that's assuming that he provided the logs. Probably double that for beams from my own logs.

Ivey · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:44:03 pm »

I have a fully hydro mill, and also a FEL so handling the logs and beams will no be a problem. I will be buying the logs and having them delivered.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:45:31 pm »

I'd do large beams by the hour. (hour for hour, not saw hour-meter)

mike_van · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2007, 04:21:04 pm »

I just finished a pile of oak [their logs] 4 of them, 15 footers, 24" dia average. They wanted all 2 1/2" thick by 8's 10's & 12's for bridge decking. Came out to 1000 bf, I charged .35 bf for it, 350.00. Took me most of 2 days. Fewer cuts with 2 1/2 yes, but I have to handle all those planks, I think some weighed more than me. I never did pick one up clean, only 1 end at a time. Or, you slide, lever, whatever. Then move a pile with the forks. Lot of work in that heavy stuff. But boy, that log turner I made last year - priceless

WH_Conley · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2007, 04:38:56 pm »

Don't know abything about pine so I will use the numbers for poplar.

18" log= 196 bdft x .40 per foot= $78.40
20" log= 256 bdft x .40 per foot= $102.40

18" log will do a 12 x 12, if it looks like a piece of pipe, a 20 gives you some room to work. Don't even count the side lumber because of the possible trim cuts needed to get it on the money, also you don't know when or if you are going to sell the side lumber. Figure $50.00 an hour for mill, labor and expenses. I would figure it at an hour per, shouldn't take that long, but if you are going to err, do it on the cautious side. I guess if the customer would take the side lumber to that would make a difference, ready market, not waiting to get your money back, cause you paid for the whole log, not just the part he wants. I know that I can cut a 20" log into 2x12 and have them stackek faster than I can move the beam off the mill and stack it with the loader. Your numbers will be different but the principal is the same.

Hope that's at least clear as mud.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:26:13 pm »

I think $1/bf is about right. I used to get more than that for large bridge timbers made from oak. I did cut some 10x20x10 in oak and got well over $1/bf.

If the buyer balks at $1, you can always come down. If you start too low, you'll never be able to go higher.

Brad_S. · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:28:15 pm »

I'm with Woodbeard on this one. At LEAST a buck a boardfoot, two isn't unrealistic either. If it were me and I could get logs that size, I'd charge $300-$350 per beam. You may need to pay a premium for the size log you need and, like WH Conley said, you'll be buying a lot more wood than you need that will sit as inventory in the form of 1 or 2 inch lumber off the sides. Also, it's the law of supply and demand. Is there anywhere else the customer will be able to get beams like that? If so, find out what the competition would charge for it and either match it or price just below them but don't price way below them. If not, then he has no choice but to meet your price.
Before you commit though (or is it too late?) make sure you can find 24 logs 18-20" on the small end of a 16' log. They may not be easy to find.

Don P · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2007, 07:41:52 pm »

I can buy 6x12 White Pine rough cants for $1.175/bf from the local log home co in 24-40'. Their better grade, dried and surfaced is $1625/mbf.

woodmills1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2007, 09:30:40 pm »

premium for sure where else can ya get them. add ing in the handling too.

Ivey · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2007, 10:47:56 pm »

Thanks for all the input guys..All these heads are better than one.
I live in pine country, Lobloly, longleaf so finding logs is not a problem.
The 12x12 beams are only part of the order he also needs 260 2x8x16
so he will be getting the side lumber as well, if it will make a 2x8. I buy pine here by the ton, $55.00 a ton saw logs. The calulator says that a pine log 20" x16' weights about 1900 lbs, about 1 ton. So thats $55. per beam
plus some uppers for 2x8s. At .75/bf thats about $144. per beam or $89.
profit. With those #s do you think I will be OK. This will more than likely be a repete costomer. He has these beams treated, and uses them for bulkheads
Thanks everyone, Ivey

Brucer · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2007, 01:19:26 am »

My main customer sells D. Fir 12" x 12" boxed heart beams for $1.80/BF CDN. By comparison, 2" x 8" boards sell for $1.00/BF. Those are wholesale prices and my sawing charges are the same in both cases. The rest of the cost comes from purchasing logs (bigger ones cost more), handling the timbers, etc.

The species, market, and dollar value are all different from your case, but I thought the ratio of big timber to lumber would useful.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2007, 05:59:39 am »

You could set your price like this: lumber value = log value + mfg costs + profit. You will have to figure out how much you will get in your side cuts to get a true lumber value. You should end up with an additional 100 bf in side cuts. At 50¢ on that, you'll get a lumber value of about $195

You get about $465/Mbf to cover your costs and profit. There's not nearly as much cutting in your log, and you will get a pretty good overrun. There's a lot to be said about repeat business.

Ivey · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2007, 09:00:24 pm »

Thanks everyone for your insight, and thoughts, I gave the customer a price of .75/bf for the beams I am sure I will be ok with that. I could have got more I know, but the customer is getting a good deal, and I am making money so we both are happy, and I'll bet he'll be back along with his freinds
Thats what it all about, Right!!

Thanks, Ivey

Haytrader · « **Reply #18 on:** July 26, 2007, 11:45:29 pm »

Ivey,

Can you handle a little constructive criticism? Hope so.

You asked for advice on sawing these beams, and got it. Then you ignored it. This is a prime example of why this industry has some scratching thier heads wondering why they can't make it profitable. By you offering this product at a reduced price (at least according to other forum members), you have set the price in your area for beams and it would be very hard for another sawyer to recieve more for like product.

You stated you had the capability to handle the large and heavy pieces because you had the equipment to move them. Let me ask you, who bought and paid for that equipment? Was it free? Is it maintenance free? Is there any insurance on that equipment? Does it take fuel?.

I do not know how you make your living. Maybe you have a job and saw part time. Maybe you saw full time, in which case you should know what it is worth to saw these beams and not have to ask. Maybe charging more makes you feel as if you are making to much for the product. Have you bought a new car or truck lately? A major appliance? Have you had major repairs to machinery? Everything seems too high, I know.

Bottom line is, you may get repeat business from this customer, but now he expects a low price. I give my customers in the hay business a fair price and mention a better deal on repeat business.

Next time, take your fellow sawyers advice. Charge a fair price and you and your fellow sawyers will all make a good profit on your investment in machinery and time.

Brad_S. · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2007, 01:03:26 am »

I debated with myself long and hard earlier about writing a response much like the one Haytrader posted but decided to bite my tongue. I couldn't have said it any better. Thanks, Haytrader.

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Author Topic: 12"x12"x16' beams (Read 3207 times)