Select clearing old untended forest

[ibseeker]

WDH: Pardon the ignorance, but does soil active mean that it can still kill vegation through the soil? I'll check out the Garlon 4 and the Tordon 101. I've not had good success with spraying Round-up because I wasn't careful enough. I learned though and put a funnel over the spray nozzle to control the overspray. 

RonW: Your comment on the hemlock is well noted. However, the plan right now is to wait for a while (1 year?) and then remove as much of the newly sprouted Hemlocks and Virginia pine as possible and replant with Eastern White Pine seedlings. The existing Hemlock and Virg. Pine are not in large stands, 3 or 4 stands of 1 acre or smaller and that's what leads me to believe that this is possible. I've been told that there are 3 year old EWP seedlings available that should be able to compete with the natural regeneration. Do you think this is a workable plan?
The Black Walnut  and Black Cherry will also be seedlings but of a very good cultivar (proper term?) and a small plot. I should be able to tend that fairly well. Your knowledge and experience obviously far exceed mine and so I'll continue to ask questions before I proceed. If I do decide to throw caution to the wind and take my chances at least the monetary investment is not too much, probably $400 or so. In all honesty, I have an emotional investment in this plan because I think Black Walnut is such a beautiful wood and I'd like to see more of it developed. Will it work? Who knows? Until I feel like it's just a bad idea, I'll continue to pursue it. I thought the mulching wasn't realistic and you confirmed it. I'm leaning towards following the lead that SwampDonkey gave when he posted those pictures with the new sprouts coming right up through the leftover slash. 
Please continue to advise since there's much I don't know. In other words, shoot big holes in my plans if you care to.

Sprucegum; Thanks for the laugh. I can just imagine the tire....that's a move I'm well qualified to make.  I was concerned about contacting the saw blade but your explanation of the value of the shoulder harness helps. Fortunately, there isn't a whole lot that I'm concerned with preserving. I'll take your advice and move carefully around the cherry, dogwoods and cedars. I've looked up the Huskie 323R and it's not too expensive. I'm not willing to spend another week in the woods trying to mow down the understory with a chainsaw. I'm still recovering from the last time I made that mistake.

[thecfarm]

Is eastern white pine worth anything in your area?In the New England states there is a strong market for it off and on.It's hard to read the market 20-40 years down the road.Good luck.

[WDH]

Yes Ibseeker,

Soil active means that it can be taken up by roots, and the herbicide can kill plants that way.  Garlon 4 will kill if it penetrates the bark or it contacts the foliage.  In the soil, it is not toxic and will break down quickly.  It is not a threat by absorption by the roots.  Tordon, on the other hand, will kill if it penetrates the bark, contacts the foliage, or is taken in by the roots, so much care is advised when using it.  However, it is deadly as a hack and squirt herbicide on almost any species, even the hard to treat ones that many other herbicides have a hard time with.  Just don't slop it around on the ground; confine it to the cut.

I have sprayed Garlon 4 very effective as a foliar spray for understory broadleaf hardwoods.  It will only impact plants the come in direct contact with the foliar spray.  If it falls on the ground, no problem.  Not so with Tordon.  That is why it is best used in the hack and squirt method and not as a spray (unless you want to kill everything).

[Warren]

IBSeeker,

First, welcome to the forum.  Lots of good info and folks who are willing to help.

On the hack side of the equation, a good machette is pretty hard to beat for manually removing woody/pulpy brush up to 2" to 3" thick.  I brought one back from El Salvador several years ago.  Keep it behind the truck seat so it is always handy around the farm.  Obviuosly, a skidsteer set up would be better for larger areas.

My experience with goats is similar to Ron's.  They will readily eat the fresh green shoots on multiflora rose and love the prickly leaves on thistle plants.  But would not prune back the existing old growth.  I did not notice a tendency toward the tree bark.

Warren

[maple flats]

I'd suggest you look into renting a walk behind brush mower if the land is level enough. They will cut hardwoodstuff up to 2 or 2.5"" and softwood a little bigger, or most anything they can knock down, they are easily manuveured and should be easier on your body to run. I had a saw blade on a HD trimmer head but found it very tiring to use for hours on end. The is a link to see one.   http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_404003_404003    I do not necessarily reccommend this brand nor company but just for reference. These are like a self propelled walk behind mower for brush. Most rental yards around will have one and you can get a lot done in a day with one.

[ibseeker]

How difficult is using a skidsteer/bobcat with a brushhog attachment? Will this be effective for vines and stuff like that?

I'll check out the walk behind brush cutters as well as the strap on ones. I think that the majority of the property would be able to be worked with a walk behind. My FIL suggested one of those DR Brushcutters but I haven't really checked into it. Anyone used one of those?

I'll definitely be using the hack-n-squirt method but I think I'll also need a faster method to cover more ground.

[PineNut]

I have a 10.5 hp DR mower. It works great for brush up to 1 maybe 1.5 inches in dia.  If you are careful, can cut up to 2 inches dia.  It will cut grass but it is not a lawn mower. It is expensive but it does the job.

[Onthesauk]

I've got a 13hp Honda Billy Goat brush mower, much like the DR.  Have used it now for about 8 years and would be lost without it.  Local rental guy says they are a bit stronger and easier to work on then the DR mowers.  Check rental outfits for two year old models, about when they upgrade. 

I've got a small diesel tractor with a brush hog but can't use it up the hillsides so the Billy Goat gets used a lot there.  Cut trails and maintain skid roads.

[routestep]

IBseeker, I bought a small lot up in Maine about 20 years ago and have been going up to it twice a year ever since. The lot is 57 acres and was logged out by three different outfits before being split up into lots for sale. The lot was cut hard.
 So I hired a forester and had him plant about thirty acres to black spruce (his choice, I was stationed in PR at the time). I spent $10,000 for the helicopter to spray for raspberrys and underbrush and the seedling stock. State of Maine shared part of the cost at the time.
 Since then I planted seedling that I bought from various nursries. I planted pines and spruces as plugs and bare root and hardwoods as bare roots. The native trees or mainly maples, firs and ash. The eastern white pine and ponderosa pines almost to a tree that I planted got attacked by saw flies. The ones that didn't die are more like bushes, so I don't plant pines much anymore. Natural regenerated pines I tend to trim and the bugs don't go after them as much. I think it helps a little if the EWP are in shade or surrounded by other trees.
 After the initial helicopter spraying I just let the undergrowth go. I don't mow or spray, too many trees or other obstacles on the ground.
 Bare root seedlings required that I dig a hole. Up to about ten years ago I use to do this, and I preferred a drizzling day to plant in. Now at 51 I'm not keen on digging holes and I avoid a cold Maine rain in May.
 What I plant now are acorns. They are easy and free for the most part. I have best luck with red oaks but I plant white and red acorns. I get them in the fall - October generally up in Maine on the trip south to Virginia, or get some from the mountains of Virginia and stratify them over the winter in cool to cold (above 32 deg F) sand. In the spring I plant the germinating ones. Some die for lack of water. Some die to rabbits or other biologics. And some grow and get browsed on by deer. A few grow. Some oaks are now 15 feet tall and growing. The black spruce are about the same height. I generally do a walk through trimming off extra leaders on the small pliable spruce and firs. When time permits I also trim lower branches in the hope of making a better saw log out of the white spruce that grow there.
 Your patch of the world will give you different results from mine. I tried walnut and wild black cherry with no luck at all. I'll try again and maybe get some to grow one of these days. I hope you have as much fun and growth as I have had over the years.
-Regards-

[ibseeker]

I've pretty much given up the idea of planting a lot of walnut and cherry. From everything that I've been told it's not a good plan. It was a nice dream but not realistic. I'll plant some walnuts but only 25 or so and I'll see how that goes. That's not going to happen anytime soon so that plan could change as well. Black walnut is a beautiful wood to work with but it sure seems like a difficult one to grow for commercial value. I've done a little research on the Purdue #1 cultivar and it seems like the most successful one to grow for veneer quality timber but that just might be a good sales pitch from the nurseries that sell them. Right now I'm struggling to understand what I should do next. I'm going to start a new thread on "Ask the Forester" to discuss my recent experiences with a Consulting Forester since that seems like the appropriate section on the Forum for that type of discussion.