Solved!!...12 Part What-is-it Test......Do You Know Your Leaf Shapes?

[WDH]

When the cabinets were built on either side of my fireplace in 1982, the cabinet maker did a crappy job on the 6 doors (3 on either side of the fireplace).  The doors warped, and we lived with them for too many years.  I decided to re-do the doors myself.  The idea was to create a door with two panels divided by a middle rail.  Each panel would be copper, with the shape of a leaf with significance to my family punched in the copper panel.  We had a family discussion to ascertain which 12 leaves we would display.  The criteria were that each leaf had to have some significance to us and that each leaf should come from our property.

We collected representative leaves and made the 12 choices.  I took the leaves to work and made a copy of the actual leaves actual size.  So each leaf is the outline of a real specimen.

The test is to see how many of the 12 leaves you can identify from the punched shapes alone.  Unfortunately, all the leaves are Southern since they came from my property, so you Northern, Western, Carribean, Southern Hemispherean, European, and assorted other members who are interesting in participating might have to do some research..........not a bad thing.

I will list them by number.  If you take the test before you scroll down to see other poster's responses, you will not be biased.

Post your response by number, for example:
1.  Redwood
2.  Atlantic white cedar
3.  Jolly ole oak

Here goes

1.
 
2.
 
3.
 
4.
 
5.
 
6.

7.
 
8.
 
9.
 
10.
 
11.
 
12.
 

[Texas Ranger]

1. Black walnut
2. sycamore
3. Black Oak
4. shagbark hickory
5. Black Maple
6. Cherrybark Oak
7. Sweetgum
8. Buckeye, or horse chestnut
9. southern red oak
10. Red Bud, possibly mulberry
11. Tulip poplar
12. White oak.

Does spelling count?

[OneWithWood]

I agree with TR except I would say #7 is Tupelo

[metalspinner]

1. Walnut
2. Sycamore
3. Red oak
4  ash
5. Sugar maple
6. R.O.
7. Sweetgum
8. ?
9. Southern R.O.
10. Redbud
11. Tulip Poplar
12. White Oak

I didn't look at the others until I made my list...I promise.

[WDH]

Current Scores:

Texas Ranger                10/12 or 83%
Onewithwood                  9/12 or 75%
Metalspinner                    8/12 or 67%  or 10/12 depending on leniency of Judge

[Dodgy Loner]

WDH, I remember you quizzing me on those panels when I was first learning tree ID in high school .  I guess I'll refrain from the competition since I already know what they all are .

[WDH]

Nothing like a panel test, eh . 

Actually, both of TR's misses were by only a whisper, and given the info available, were excellent choices given that you are only working with silohoeuttes.

Of the three respondants combined, 11 out of 12 have been identified correctly.  Only one has yet to be properly identified..... .

[Radar67]

1. Black walnut
2. sycamore
3. Scarlet Oak
4. shagbark hickory
5. Red Maple
6. Cherrybark Oak
7. Sweetgum
8. Buckeye, or horse chestnut
9. southern red oak
10. Red Bud, possibly mulberry
11. Tulip poplar
12. White oak.

I copied TR's and made a couple changes.

Stew

[Larry]

Do You Know Your Leaf Shapes?

No but I'll play.

1.  Walnut
2.  ? Maple
3.  Red Oak
4.  Shellbark Hickory
5.  ? Maple
6.  Southern Red Oak
7.  Sweetgum
8.  Buckeye
9.  Black Oak
10.  Cottonwood
11.  Tulip Popular
12.  White Oak

[WDH]

Current Scores:

Texas Ranger                10/12 or 83%
Onewithwood                  9/12 or 75%
Metalspinner                    8/12 or 67%  or 10/12 depending on leniency of Judge
Radar67                     10.5/12 or 88%  Partial credit for one choice at discretion of Judge. 
Larry                            6.5/12 or 54%  Partial credit for one choice at discretion of Judge

Now, when all respondants are combined, 12 out of 12 have been identified, but nobody has got them all yet.

[Radar67]

Okay, check my modification.

[WDH]

Current Scores:

Texas Ranger                10/12 or 83%
Onewithwood                  9/12 or 75%
Metalspinner                    8/12 or 67%  or 10/12 depending on leniency of Judge
Radar67                        11/12 or 92% 
Larry                            6.5/12 or 54%  Partial credit for one choice at discretion of Judge

Modified score for Radar67.

[Radar67]

Okay, let's change 3 to red oak

Stew

[WDH]

Don't change #3. 

[Texas Ranger]

1. Black walnut
2. sycamore
3. scarlet Oak
4. shagbark hickory
5. Red Maple
6. Cherrybark Oak
7. Sweetgum
8. Buckeye, or horse chestnut
9. southern red oak
10. Red Bud, possibly mulberry
11. Tulip poplar
12. White oak.

[WDH]

Texas Ranger                11/12 or 92%
Onewithwood                  9/12 or 75%
Metalspinner                    8/12 or 67%  or 10/12 depending on leniency of Judge
Radar67                        11/12 or 92% 
Larry                            6.5/12 or 54%  Partial credit for one choice at discretion of Judge

Modified for Texas Ranger.

[metalspinner]

I only named four of the twelve as oaks.  My tree service guy would have called eight of those twelve oaks.  I should get some sort of credit for hitting the right family.

[WDH]

Hey , you saw the comment about the leniency of the judge .  I am not a hanging judge .  The two in question were both oaks................ .

[Radar67]

1. Black walnut
2. sycamore
3. Scarlet Oak
4. shagbark hickory
5. Red Maple
6. Cherrybark Oak
7. Sweetgum
8. Buckeye, or horse chestnut
9. Black oak
10. Red Bud, possibly mulberry
11. Tulip poplar
12. White oak.

Stew note the change on 9

[WDH]

Negative Stew.  You had that one right.

I will have to say that the one that is in question could easily be two species from just looking at the shape alone.  One of these species is opposite branched and the other is alternate.  No way to tell that from the shape alone.

One person did get it right .

[Radar67]

Could you be talking about the hickory? If so, Shellbark in particular?

Stew

[WDH]

It ain't a hickory, but sure looks like one  .  What else has a compound leaf like that .

[Radar67]

Well, I ain't sure, but if one person got it right, it could be ash.

Stew

[WDH]

!!!!!

Solved 

Sorry that the green ash and pignut hickory look so much alike from the leaf shape alone. 

All in all, you guys did great with your leaf shapes.  I am impressed .

[Radar67]

So this is the correct list.

1. Black walnut
2. sycamore
3. Scarlet Oak
4. Ash
5. Red Maple
6. Cherrybark Oak
7. Sweetgum
8. Buckeye, or horse chestnut
9. Southern Red Oak
10. Red Bud, possibly mulberry
11. Tulip poplar
12. White oak.

Stew

[Texas Ranger]

7 to 9 petiolate leaflets?  Leaflets 3 to 4"?  Apex acute to acuminate?

[metalspinner]

Give me a minute while I tap myself on the back for getting the Ash right.........

Of course, by the looks of TR's last post, that one might still be up in the air.

[WDH]

Number 10 is Mulberry.

Green ash has leaflets of 5 to 9.  This one just happened to have 5. 

If I had not collected the leaf and knew that it was green ash, and if I had been taking this contest, I would have most likely guessed pignut hickory.  With only the shape, that would have been the percentage play  .   The maple could be any hard maple like black maple, sugar maple, or florida maple (southern sugar maple).  It is florida maple.  The mulberry shape is kind of non-descript.  This leaf is large for a redbud, but it is a good guess.  All the rest of the pics are very distinctive as to species because of some particular or unique characteristic.

Shapes are like pictures.  You only get an impression of what you are looking at, and then only the impression that is covered by the extent of the pic.  With the real plant, you see, touch, taste, etc. everything.  So, it is much more difficult to identify a plant from a picture (or just a leaf shape).

That is why I am impressed by the initial responses .  Good job!

[Texas Ranger]

That aint what Harlow and Harrar say, but, green ash around here has a narrow leaflet, and generally smaller leaf, and the 7 to 9 leaflets.

good job, good quiz, makes ya think a little.

[WDH]

The books are good.  I depend on them in many ways.  Sometimes the plants don't always do what the book says they should do.  Like pignut with 7 leaflets.  The book says 5, rarely 7.  But I see the 7's a lot.  Some manuals called that Red Hickory if the bark is a little scaly.  Some call it a variety of pignut.  It is hard to pigeon-hole nature.

In any event, you guys are good sports .  The more we share with each other, the more we learn .  I really enjoy the Whatzit threads.

[thecfarm]

I would like to see a picture of the doors in place beside the fireplace.

[WDH]

10-4.

[OneWithWood]

So is it only Black Gum that is also known as Tupelo? 

[WDH]

OWW,

Tupelo and blackgum are in the genus Nyssa.  There are several species that generally are broken down by leaf and fruit size and the site they inhabit.   

Sweetgum is not related.  It is in the genus Liquidambar. 

So when people refer to tupelo, they might be referring to blackgum, but not sweetgum.

[Tom]

I got confused years ago when I was reading about Black Gum that was also called Black tupelo and a tree called water tupelo.  Some writers, the Internet is bad for it, lump all of the common names into one pot and give the impression that there is no difference.   

I had access to the swollen butts of an acre of black gum.  A friend of mine, who is a carver, asked me for Tupelo.  "Sure, said I".

I loaded my truck with the swollen butts, probably had 60 of them.  I cut them short so that all he would get was the "soft" wood of the buttress.   I carried them to him and gave them to him for free.  Later I found that it wasn't what he wanted and that Black gum buttresses weren't anything like water tupelo buttresses.  The water Tupelo buttress is softer and lighter than butternut and has little definition between the winter and summer wood.  It is an excellent wood for manual carving and machine carving too.  Those who make Duck decoys prefer it to butternut.

I have since hunted for water Tupelo around here and can't find any.  It's a good thing I wasn't selling it.  That would have been even more embarrassing than the faux paux I experienced.

[WDH]

I have heard it is good for carving.  Never sawed any myself.

[Dodgy Loner]

The commom nonclementure used for the Nyssa genus makes it one of the more confusing taxonomic groups in the Southeast.  We have four native taxa:

Nyssa sylvatica:  This tree is most commonly known as blackgum, or less commonly, black tupelo.  It frequents dry to mesic sites of the mountains, Piedmont, and coastal plain.  I suspect that the reason it's not usually called black tupelo is that people tend to associate the word "tupelo" with wetland species that are frequently found in standing water with swollen butts.  What's interesting is that blackgum produces no gum of any kind.  I suspect that it may have gotten it's common name because the wood is so similar to sweetgum.  The two are impossible to reliably differentiate without a microscope.

Nyssa sylvatica var. biflora: This tree, a variety of blackgum, is commonly known as water tupelo, which means that it is often confused with the similarly named swamp tupelo.  The leaves are narrower than blackgum, but smaller and with a shorter petiole than water tupelo.  Also, the fruit is small and blue to black, while water tupelo has red fruit.  Swamp tupelo is most common in standing water, where it forms dense stands with large, swollen buttresses.  They are generally small trees, less than 50' tall and 1' in diameter, but specimens in river bottoms can be much larger.

Nyssa aquatica:  This tree is known as water tupelo, and is the most common tupelo of southern river bottoms.  It often grows in inundated swamps, where it forms a huge buttress, sometimes 6-8 feet in diameter.  The height of the buttress is usually higher in areas that have higher floods.  These trees are commonly 80-100 feet tall, and often taller.  The buttresses and roots of water tupelos are very light and soft, as Tom mentions, and have been historically used for floats by fishermen.  

Nyssa ogeche:  Commonly known as Ogeechee tupelo because it was discovered on the Ogeechee River, this is a somewhat uncommon species, restricted primarily to South Georgia and North Florida.  To confuse matter, another common name is Ogeechee-lime or Ogeechee-lime tupelo.  This is because the sour, red fruits were once harvested for their juice, which tastes similar to lime juice.  It's closely related to water tupelo, and the casual observer probably wouldn't notice much difference.  Water tupelo, however, is a larger tree, with longer petioles and more pointy leaf tips.

[WDH]

Nice discourse.  You couldn't have been nyssa about it

[OneWithWood]

All good info.  Thanks. 

[Lanier_Lurker]

The books are good.  I depend on them in many ways.  Sometimes the plants don't always do what the book says they should do.  Like pignut with 7 leaflets.  The book says 5, rarely 7.  But I see the 7's a lot.  Some manuals called that Red Hickory if the bark is a little scaly.  Some call it a variety of pignut.  It is hard to pigeon-hole nature.

In any event, you guys are good sports .  The more we share with each other, the more we learn .  I really enjoy the Whatzit threads.

I have more 7 leaflet pignut than 5.  Either that or I also have some red hickory (Carya ovalis) on my property.

[WDH]

I would like to see a picture of the doors in place beside the fireplace.

Thecfarm,  Here are some pics of the doors.

 

 

[thecfarm]

Thank-you.I knew they would look good.