Walnut Trees and Ground cover

[Canada]

Hello,

Can anyone tell me what type of ground cover would thrive in an extremely shaded area under several walnut trees?  If the walnut trees were not so valuable, I would cut them all down.  They certainly dominate the area that they grow in as well it is one heck of a mess in the fall. 

Any assistance or advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Furby]

Why are they considered valuable?

[Ianab]

Not a lot...

Between the shade and the natural herbicide that walnut trees produce it's a tough job for anything to grow under them.

Cheers

Ian

[beenthere]

Grass grows under black walnut trees just fine.  What kind of walnut are they?

[WDH]

Walnut trees secret a chemical called juglone to retard competition.  Not sure you will be too successful growing much stuff under the canopy .

[Canada]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I thought the outcome would be grim.

One person asked "why are they considered valuable".  Currently walnut is $5.50 a board foot.  We have several walnut trees on our property, planted by the previous owners or forgetful squirrels however they are not planted in very good spots relative to the location of our home so unfortunately they will eventually have to come down.  For those who are cringing at the thought of taking trees down please note that I have planted to date an additional 35 trees on our property and will continue to add to this each year. 

Thanks again for your advice and replies. 

[thecfarm]

Welcome to the forum,Canada.Good luck with your timber frame building.Any plans for a sawmill?

[Dodgy Loner]

Grass grows under black walnut trees just fine.  What kind of walnut are they?

Black walnut IS what kind of walnut they are, apparently.  Juglans nigra.

[Dan_Shade]

I think black locust will grow with walnut

[Dodgy Loner]

I'm not sure that black locust qualifies as a groudcover 

[beenthere]

Just know I need (hope) to get the grass mowed this weekend between my black walnut trees. I've about 700 on 10 x 10 spacing. For the first 10-15 years, I kept the ground turned over and free of any cover. For the last 15 years, I either use roundup or just mow the grass a couple times a year. Not many broad leaved plants will grow under them, but a few berry bushes and cedar seem to take hold. Grasses - no problem for them ta grow.

[WDH]

Canada,

Plant mo' trees .  Kinda like DanG's "eat mo' grits"   If you plant mo' trees, we will get you some grits .

[Tom]

Might even send you some Grits Trees. 

[Larry]

Just a few observations from a uneducated would-like-to-be forester.  And I may be all wrong so don’t be afraid to correct me.  The canopy of maturing walnuts is more of a detriment to ground cover than juglone.  And if I could talk to Mr Walnut tree I’m guessing they would prefer any legume ground cover...to fix nitrogen and more importantly to hold moisture.       

Dan...both black and honey locust fall in the legume category and I think Mr Walnut tree prefers either as a bed partner.  Maybe not as a ground cover though.

And that mess in the fall...I call that good eating...for me and the squirrels.

[Furby]

I guess my whole point is, just because the lumber is fetching $$$ someplace, WHO says YOUR trees are of any value?
Take them down if you don't want them.
Don't hold onto them for the $$$ unless you are VERY sure they are worth the $$$ and know what you are looking for when you apraise them.
Not all trees are worth the $$$ or worth keeping.

[Left Coast Chris]

Not alot grow under my english walnuts either.  The shade is the biggest factor.  I have found that leaving the leaves creates a mulch that covers the ground.  You could add mulch, decorative bark etc. since they are so close to the house.  Another possibility is to get a creeping vine ground cover that will cover the ground beneath the trees but also grow on the fringe where it will get primiary light.  Another strategy is selectively prune the limbs to let some light in and you will get grass.  If the trees have a central leader the pruning would be difficult and they tend to fill back in with new growth so you would need to prune every two or three years.

Hope that helps 

[Canada]

Thanks guys, some great feedback here.

Furby, I know what you are saying and you are right. I guess the trouble is not worth the $$$.

One other question surrounding my walnut trees - can anyone recommend a spray to take out the weeds and brush that are thriving under the walnut trees?  I like farmer77's idea about putting down a bed of mulch but first I need to clean it up. 

[WDH]

I would try Round-up at a 3% solution in water at first to see how effective it does the job.  Round-up is readily available and is not soil active.  Also not too expensive.  I used to do a lot of spraying under the hardwoods around my house.  I mixed Round-up at 3% solution in water and Garlon 4 at 3% solution in water in the same sprayer.  That controls practically everything, even green briar.  The Round-up is deadly on grass and the Garlon 4 is deadly on the toughest to kill broadleaf plants.  Just don't get any of the spray directly on the bark of the good trees.

There may be better chemicals on the market today, as my major spraying program was about 20 years ago.  Surely, the experts will speak up.

[Phorester]

Sounds like you've gone from wanting a ground cover to wanting mulch.    Maybe you want both.  Mulch is better, but I can go with grass too. The problem with grass is that most people want to cut it, which means lawn mowers, which means soil compaction over the tree roots. If you were in my neck of the woods, I'd recommend red fescue if you want a grass cover.  Here it grows well under walnuts and in shade, and I'd suggest you investigate it for your neck of the woods.

Where you want mulch underneath trees (an excellent idea, by the way), I'd suggest first putting down a layer of landscape fabric.  This is especially made to restrict plant growth up through the fabric, but allows for water and oxygen percolation down through it.  Don't use just plain black plastic. Plastic will not allow the percolation of water or oxygen to the tree roots.  Plastic is like putting down asphalt, it will suffocate the roots.  Only use 2" - 4" of mulch. Any deeper will limit the amount of water getting down to the tree roots.  Don't pile it up against the trunk like a volcano.  I have no idea why that practice got started.  All it does is rot the bark on the tree trunk.  Remember, the idea is to mulch the tree roots, not the tree trunk.

RoundUp is a good all purpose herbicide where you don't want to affect plant roots.  It's only absorbed by foliage.

Don't worry about us cringing about cutting trees.  Most of us on this board realize that it's a necessity, and a lot of loggers and wood workers reside here.

[Patty]

Another thought to ground cover in shaded areas is to plant hostas. They will eventually take over and eliminate weeds and also eliminate the need to mow. I am not sure, however, if walnut trees will retard the growth of the hostas. Someone else will need to answer that one. I do know they grow well under pines or other very shaded areas.