"Cable Guy"

[Scott_R]

My brother asked me if I knew anything about engineering cable rigging. I had to plead ignorance, but said I could probably locate someone who could. So does anyone on the board know of a cable logger who would be interested in doing some consulting engineering? Thanks, Scott

[Paul_H]

Scott,
What exactly is he looking to do?If you can give us a little more info,I'm sure we can help.

[Scott_R]

Paul, He wants to see what it would talke to move prefabed wall sections from a barge onto a remote island. The sections would weigh about 2000# or so. Sort of a reverse logging operation! That is why I thought of this forum. I thought that there had been some discussion on cable logging here but was unable to find it with a search. I must have been using the wrong terms for the cable logging. Scott

[Paul_H]

Scott,
It would be good to know the distance from barge to land,or building site.What would be available for a winch,and does he have access to 3/4-7/8 cable?Lay of the land(deflection)

Have you considered a helicopter?It might be cheaper in the long run,if the other materials aren't on hand.

[Paul_H]

Here are some links I found.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/nr/fp/salhi/Falk_1981.pdf
http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/Docs/Sil/SIL435-2%20.pdf
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/yarding/cableyardingsystem.html

Whatever you decide to do,be carefull.Even 2000#, suspended over a few hundred feet is a lot of strain on cable and anchors.

Here is another link you might find interesting
http://www.theyankeegroup.com/steep_slope.htm

[Tillaway]

Scott,
Like Paul said more info is needed.  Rigging cable safely is both an art and a science.  There are a lot of variables that have to be considered before you can even begin to lay something out.  One variable for example is how far do you have to go.  The longer the distance the heavier the rigging has to be.  You have to not only support the payload but the rigging itself and your anchors have to hold.  Tidal influence and deflection (the clearance between your "skyline" and the ground) are critical.  The panels would have to "fly" all way to were you "land" them.  They could not touch the ground anywhere in between.  If the tide goes out and one end is lower now will the clearance still be maintained?  Also the barge would have to be well anchored, probably off all four corners.  It could not wag in the current or spin with the wind or tides.

Paul mentioned helicopter and I think this would be the fastest and cheapest way to go.  It does not matter if the barge is even anchored and the pilot can place them right on the foundation.  The per hour cost seems real high for these, probably well over $1000 and hour, but they are really fast and worth avery penny.  2000 pounds is not allot of wieght so finding a helicopter locally that can make the lift should not be a problem.  Just make some calls around.

If you really need to go the cable route then give me a shout, I know several consulting forest engineers that could help.  Also I can give you a few ideas on how to pull it off regarding equipment and operators.  Paul has the equipment, but his would be a bit of overkill for this project, that and I bet it will be busy since it is beginning to be that time of the year.

[Paul_H]

I agree with you Tillaway.Even if the cable was free,to find a winch that would do the job would exceed the cost of the chopper.I was trying to find a picture of an A-frame to post here,but no luck.Remember they used a stiff leg to hold off of shore,and the A-frame was anchored back to the raft itself.We had a small version of the A-frame attached to a little two drum swifter winch on a raft.The guy that had it before us was a beachcomber, we only used it for tightening swifters.

It would be a fun project if there was revenue that you could generate from it.But to move a cabin,it might break you.I would still like to hear more about it Scott.

[Tillaway]

I have seen pictures and even some old A frames in Alaska.  I figured you had some experience with them.  They were pretty common along the coast in BC and Alaska during WWll.

I was thinking a Kohler might fill the bill for this project, but I need to know where the project is and allot more specifics.  

I would like to know more too Scott

[Paul_H]

I have never had a chance to work on a A-frame.I have seen a lot of pictures of them,and know a few people who worked on them up coast.They said if you came into a hangup,it would suck the front of the raft down.Then you slack off a bit,then spike it.The weight of the raft coming back up would pull like crazy.

What is a Kohler?

[Scott_R]

Paul and Tillaway, He is doing a feasabilty study to see if there is a market for secluded offshore cabins. This would be for more than one setup. Hence the idea that it might be less costly to use a cable setup over chopper. He is aware that the forces involved are high and the tide/wave factor would make for INTERESTING engineering. I don't know what the deflecton amounts would tend to be. That amount could end up being a decisive factor depending on the lay of the land. Distances to the barge would also be variable. Longer runs would benefit anchorage points at the expense of cable loadings and vis a versa. Pauls equipment sounds good, but commute time would be very long as this is being looked at for the Maine coast! I will forward this info to him and get him involved. Double and triple relaying of complex engineering info is a surefire means for disaster. Many thanks for the info and offers of people connections. This site is full of helpful and cando guys. Thanks Scott

[Kevin]

First of all let me say I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Having said that I would rig the four corners of the brace with cables and lift the entire rig with a crane.
Depending on what the crane's safe working limit is, the walls could be stacked on top of one another and secured to the lifting brace.

[Tillaway]

Paul,
A Kohler is brand of yarder made in Europe.  They have a small unit with a 25' tower that you could pull behind a pickup.  I am not sure of the working loads and drum capacities but I'm pretty sure it would be up to the task.  They also make a 50' tower model.  A Cristy yarder would work well and there always seems to be one for sale.

Oh... and a set of drums on a excavator would work as well, I think Jewel or one them outfits does it.

[Paul_H]

The excavator with yarding package would work well.They are pretty stable too.I guess the next question for Scott is What size and type of barge is available?

I have a two drum,10-10 Lawrence here at home for the taking,but Maine is a long way away.Wouldn't there be some type of winches available from an old ship,or shipyard out there?Highlead logging was born from the old sailors,and there rigging techniques.

Just a thought.

Tillaway,
Are the Christy's and Kohlers little skyline yarders?I remember seeing some cool little machines doing commercial thinning in Oregon.One was a track machine like a 071,another was like a 5th wheel trailer.

[Tillaway]

Christys are usually truck mount and Kohlers are mounted on about everything.  They are little thinning skyline machines.  There would be no problem finding winches in Maine, the basically same ones used  for the yarder packages are used one the fishing boats,  the draggers (trawlers) mainly.  In fact if you were creative you could probably convert an old trawler into a mobile yarder.  Some the machinery would already be on board.

[Scott_R]

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like there are lots of options. Barges should not be a problem. Portsmouth,NH and Portland,ME are both large shipping ports. I have E-mailed him the address for this thread so he may join us soon. Thanks Scott