Solubor and glycol

[TexasTimbers]

Don,

I have read this thread 3 times now. What is my best bet for the Loblolly beam which was felled app 2 months ago then turned into a beam pretty quick thereafter . . and now being right around 26% MC on the outside and much higher inside?

I'm taking your comments to mean you think I should soup up my Timbor with a glycol. I know you said I could do you think I should? If so, should I use EG or PG?

I'm barely hanging in here with you fellas on this topic so keep it stupid fer me

I do not believe I need to treat the Bois D' Arc posts.

[Ironwood]

Kevjay,

 Don't feel bad I must have read it 10 times, especially after doing some research and ordering some Solubor. Just like anything, dive in and you learn. Everytime I figure something out I had to go back and reread to better understand.


                     Reid

[Don P]

Jeez, I'm a good 'splainer  .
I just put the solubor (1-1.5 lbs per gallon of water) and about a quart more or less according to the drying conditions that day per 5 gal batch and soak it repeatedly. I'll check in later, gotta run to the doghouse, the wifes got the book club comin.... ahhh I'm outta here 

[Ironwood]

Don P.

 No problem w/ the explaination just the comprehenion. Until you get your feet wet you are still talking pie in the sky. I picked up the Solubor today and some Poly and Ethy. Evidentally, the old style Ethy is going off the market soon. I understand the toxicity issue and will lean toward Poly. I am concerned about breathing the Ethy as I am working hte material later. This is not for a "static" application, but for palletized wood for furniture. Any further input? What about PEG flakes used for wood stabilizing? I have some of that and a stainless heated vat to melt the flakes into solution. THe vat is too small to soak my wood but would it help the cause to use PEG flakes instead of Poly in RV antifreeze?

 Kevjay,

 As per your earlier comment about critter walking around unscathed, it won't do anything to them until they dig in with their mouths, especially with the Ethy but that comes at a price (toxicity) to everything.  At least that is my understanding, after the 10th reading. 

           Reid

[Don P]

 I wish I'da remembered to take a long sleeve shirt down, about got a truss bent welded.

I feel like the glycol helps in my situation and would help in most situations. The moment the moisture content drops below fiber saturation, penetration stops.If the surface begins drying the moisture is heading back out. You just stalled going in. I'll step out on a limb and say that I think it works best with a cell full of water rather than just damp cell walls. That's why I think that anything that slows drying helps it get in. I started my adventure by applying Solubor and water only. By the time I made it back around a cabin it was surface dry, I felt I wasn't getting in. With the glycol I kept a cabin wet for a month. I think I got it to the bone. Nisus does make a dye that reacts with borate, I need to get some and experiment. Anyway, I think Timbor green from the saw would work fine with the suggested dip and wrap method. After that I think glycol can only help.

I've heard a few anecdotal stories that antifreeze helps prevent surface checking. I can see how that could be true. If so then even straight off the saw might be worth thinking about. I've not used propylene glycol or PEG, they are "safe". PEG is used to stabilize wood. The unknown for me is in a more finished product, how well will it glue or accept a fine finish is an unknown to me. Peg is supposedly trouble there. Timbor/water is supposedly ok. I had to resand the TF we're on after Glycol/solubor and before the danish oil. The crystals on the surface showed through the finish otherwise. I can't see any finish problems after a light sand, waterlox seemed to do fine also. For structural wood I say nuke it till it glows. I wish we had more osage, I've got a few that are up to about 2", might be awhile  .

[Ironwood]

Don P

 Yes, PEG is an issue when finishing no doubt. The wood will be fully planed and sculpted before putting a finish on. For me the issue seem to mostly be in the cambium layer, I leave it on nearly all wood I mill. This is the GOOD starchy dessert for the little #$%^.  I may try coating just my outer live edges. This would hopefully work as breaking apart stacks of sticked lumber seem VERY unappealing (some of the recent walnut shown earlier in this thread are 400lbs each, I used the crane to stack them back on the pallet after photographing them).

               Reid

 PS. yeah you can get a real good "sunburn" welding in short sleeves, been there done that (Once)

[TexasTimbers]

This has been very informative. I still have a couple questions but they are semantics more than anything. I have the big picture I believe.

Gotta agree with y'all on the shirt sleeves. I installed a 320' x 4' steel retaining wall in 2002 for a customer and made the sections up in a buddy's shop (mine wasn't built yet) and one of my hands refused to wear a helmet! He was using one of those half face cutting masks. I kept telling him he was going to get fried and he kept saying no I got it under control. I did everything but physially force him and finally Jimmy said "Let 'im learn Kev so he'll never forget." SO I shutup about it and never gave no more thought.
The next day he called and said he counldn't come to work he wasn't feeling to well. Come dinner time I slipped on over to his house unannounced and sure enough he has 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his face everywhere the mask wasn't covering. He looked like a bright red raccoon with blisters. He was absolutely miserable and needed hospitalization in my estimation but of course would not go. His remedy was to stay drunk.
Turns out the moron thought I was trying to tell him he was going to get hit by sparks, and not that the ultraviolet light was cooking him. I just took for granted he knew enough to know that welding creates a little ball of sun at your fingertips but he was dumber than I thought.
He could not work for a week. He only lasted a couple weeks after that I finally had to let him go, he required constant supervision.
I weld way too often with short sleeves myself. It doesn't cook as bad with these hairy arms but still it ain't smart.

[PineNut]

I tried using the borates without glycol but gave it up. Without glycol, the surface dries very quickly and crystals form on the surface. If they are on the surface, they are not in the lumber and are not doing any good. If you kept the surface wet for a period, I expect the borates would eventually move in the lumber, but it is a pain to keep the lumber wet. Also with the borates only, crystals will form in the sprayer very quickly, sometimes in less than an hour.

With the glycol, I find that the surface stays wet much longer. Also no crystals are left on the surface.  Also the life of the working solution is much longer. Bora-care says that the 1:1,  1:2  & 1:3  mixtures are good for 24 hours and 1:5 is good for 30 days. I have left 1:1 in the sprayer for a week or more without any problems.   

After trying both processes, I will stick with the glycol. I don’t think that the cost is much more considering the chemical that moves into the wood. And with the labor factor, the glycol is the best method for me.

[brdmkr]

You guys hae me concerned with all the talk of 'sanding'.  I was aiming to treat and seal withone of the water sealers.  A friend has suggested a product called perma chink.  I am picking up the solubor Monday.  I really don't guess it matters wheter it has to be sanded or not.  I have to treate it or it will be eaten

[Ironwood]

Perma Chink is (to my knowlege) just a chinking for in between the logs. It is a great brand and a good product for that. Perhaps they are offering a wood treatment as well. I think Hess Log home suppply in central Pa. supplies one of the estates I deal with. They do get a log treatment from Hess but I am not sure if it is the Perma Chink brand or another, I know they get their chinking in a Perma Chink brand.

               Reid

[brdmkr]

I thought I would provide an update.  I treated the inside of the shop today.  I used solubor and EG.  I mixed an awful amout of solubor/3gallons of water while heating.  I did not boil, but I am convinced that I created a super-satureated solution.  I then used about a quart of EG in 3 gallons of mix.  The first batch, I may have made a little light as I used a quart jar of solubor/gallon of water.  I don't know where I got that idea, but solubor is REALLY light.  So, I went with the super-saturation approach after.  I used more like 2 - 3 quart jars/gallon of water.

Some observations

1. Given I just finished bleaching to get rid of mold, I can say that the EG really does keep the wood wet MUCH longer.

2.  I did NOT observe white crystals.  Did I do something wrong (I wet the wood to the point of run off).

3.  Once the wood was dry to the touch the EG smell was gone.

Now, I'll just have to sit back and see if it worked.  Thanks to all who provided input.

[PineNut]

Brdmkr, with the glycol, I don’t think you will get the white crystals, which I consider an advantage. This means the boron is going into the wood rather than forming crystals on the surface. I have not observed any crystals when using glycol but had a lot of trouble when not using the glycol.

[brdmkr]

Thanks for the update on the EG.  I wondered if I had mixed it stout enough as I did not weight the solubor.  I just kept putting it in until it started settling out of solution.