Mixed marriage at Bibbyman’s – Baker-Mizer or Wood-Baker?

[Bibbyman]

Jim,  Tom-In-Mo’s first cousin showed up Wednesday morning about 9:00 with our new Baker 16' 3-strand deck. 



It didn’t take long to get it unladed.  The Terex handled the deck Ok weight wise.  But it was a little awkward to get into position.  I had to take it in one step at a time.



Mary expected something personal on the nameplate - Like "Special Built for Pro-Sawyer Mary" or something. But it only had a Postit Note saying "Warden Sawmill".

About the time we got it positioned, the two young farmers that rent our pasture showed up.  They jumped in and took on the task of making up the two hoses that connected to the mill.  We tapped into the hoses that had powered the loading arms.   The deck is equipped with a couple of selector valves that are activated by 12v DC coils.  Son Gabe, Mary and I worked on the wiring while the hoses were being made.



Here's what it looks like in the arms down position.

We had it fired up by noon but had other obligations after noon we didn’t test it until later. 

It happed that Brooke was home from school when we were ready to load the first log onto the deck.  All went well.  The arms lowered and the 14’ oak log gently rolled onto the deck of the Wood-Mizer.  Brooke says, “COOL!  It’s just like a robot!”.



I loaded it up with about 1400bf of oak logs.  The chain pulled them forward and back with out effort.

We were busy Thursday and didn’t saw and we were out to the Wood-Mizer 25’th Anniversary Tour party Friday, Saturday and returned on Sunday so today was the first day we got to use it.   It worked great.  We sawed all morning on one deck full.  It sure takes a lot of effort out of getting a log on the mill.

Any questions?

[ShowMeSawyer]

Looks great Bibby!

You might have to change the color of your mill to match the deck...

SMS

[Minnesota_boy]

How does it handle it when you stack the logs 2 or three deep?  I like to have stuff ready for all day. 

[Burlkraft]

Hey Bibby,

That looks like just what ya needed...

I like the looks of that...You'll have to let us know how it all works out down the road. It almost looks like what I was gonna build....if I ever get my shed up...

[thecfarm]

Can I borrow it??                    

[WDH]

How much do you expect it to improve your productivity?

[Part_Timer]

Very nice.  So what mod. do you have in mind for it already.

tom

[Jeff]

A good live deck is certainly an asset to any mill!

[LOGDOG]

Snazzy!!!

[Greg Cook]

Looks like the color scheme for them Florida Gators.

Now if Pro-Sawyer Mary had one of them pink Log-Rite hooks....

Nice set up, congratulations !

[OneWithWood]

Is that what became if Tom's mill?

[Paschale]

Is that what became if Tom's mill?

 

Whatever did happen to Tom's mill?   

[Tom]

I don't know!!  Those beams on Bibby's deck look kinda familiar. 

[Bibbyman]

I don't know!!  Those beams on Bibby's deck look kinda familiar. 

Yea but they look all shiny and new.  If they came off’n your old Baker they’d be rusty and oil soaked. 

How much do you expect it to improve your productivity?

I'm not quite sure.  One thing it does that we wanted it for is that it takes the hard job of cant hooking the log over onto the mill. 



We had a manual mill for years that had a "dead deck".  That is,  the deck was level with the bed.  We just rolled the logs onto the mill.

When we got the LT40 Super in 2002,  we used the loading arms.  We found it more of a problem cant hooking logs onto the arms than just cant hooking them onto the mill from the dead deck.  So we took the loading arms off and put the dead deck back on.  But big, heavy, rough logs were still quite a chore to get rolled onto the mill.

This live deck will hold enough logs to saw all morning or all afternoon - as fast as we saw.  So we don't have to "charge" it as often.

I'm sure we can put logs onto the mill faster.  I'm not sure we can pull lumber and slabs off the mill any faster.   But maybe we can stand to saw another hour in the day.

[customsawyer]

YOU DA MAN!!!!

[ElectricAl]

Bibbyman,

It's nice to see you are spending your money with several of the Forestry Forum Sponsors.

WoodMizer, Baker, TimberKing, Log Rite, and many others.

That third chain will be nice for the short logs.
Not that you want to saw the short ones.
Not too many people just saw 10' stuff all day every day.

[CLL]

Congrats Bibby. only problem I can see with it, they delivered it to the wrong place.

[Tom_in_Mo.]

CLL
Ole cus knows where Sedalia is

[DR_Buck]

Don't look like anything a large can of ORANGE paint can't cure.   

[Chris Burchfield]

Dr. Buck I believe that'll take a couple of cans of the Kubota Orange from Tractor Supply.

[sawguy21]

Naw, dat blue looks real purty.

[oakiemac]

I made a dead deck from old I beams. but the problem that I have is moving the log forward and aft. I can easily cant hook them and roll them from the deck onto the mill but I still have problems if they need to move forward or back a little bit. You can't cant hook them that way.
How do you all deal with this?

[Bibbyman]

I made a dead deck from old I beams. but the problem that I have is moving the log forward and aft. I can easily cant hook them and roll them from the deck onto the mill but I still have problems if they need to move forward or back a little bit. You can't cant hook them that way.
How do you all deal with this?

The "live deck" helps some as you put them on square with the mill and they keep square with the mill as they move down the deck.  The ones with a big butt or somehow odd shape may gain a little when coming down the loading arms but it's not as bad as they did when rolling them on a dead deck.

How we deal with logs not centered well on the mill?....  Well,  if it's not too far off and we can get it up and leveled ok,  then we'll take a slab off and turn it.  Take another slab off and turn it.  Now we have a cut face down and a cut face against the back supports.  We raise the roller toe boards and roll the cant/log to where we want it and let it down.  If the log is short and not on both rollers,  we have a 6' rock bar that we stick under it and lever it forward or back - at least far enough to get on the roller toe boards. 

[oakiemac]

Yeah, I have problems keeping them square. Some logs want to get crooked then go on bad and need to be moved a little. A long pry bar would probably help.

BTW-Nice deck. Have you got any firgures on increased production yet or is it too early to tell?

[Bibbyman]

BTW-Nice deck. Have you got any firgures on increased production yet or is it too early to tell?

I kind of answered that a couple of post back. 

I'm sure it will speed loading logs onto the mill - plus only have to load the deck about half as often. But I don't expect to see too much increase in overall production as we still have to do everything else.  It's just one more hard job that's been replaced by mechanization.   

[Tom]

What I do is put a log or slab directly in the center of the loader, on the ground and running away from the mill.\

If I've built a ramp using logs, I use a short piece of log that is just a little taller than the ramp logs and place it between the two rails of the ramp.  If the logs are on the ground, a slab cut from the flare of a log and placed with the flare toward the mill and the thin part toward the log works best.

When I roll the log down the ramp, it will get up on top of the little log and make a pivot point so that I can turn it easily one way or the other and direct its direction.

These pivot points can remain since you aren't generally walking in that area anyway.

[Gary_C]

That's another modification that could be helpful. Add an adjustable center roller to move logs that aren't centered. Even on 8 foot logs you have to roll them on exactly centered to hit the backstops.

Nice deck, blue and all. 

[Bibbyman]

That's another modification that could be helpful. Add an adjustable center roller to move logs that aren't centered. Even on 8 foot logs you have to roll them on exactly centered to hit the backstops.

Nice deck, blue and all. 

I fixed that problem years ago with my 4 powered back stop mod - now standard on the LT40 Super and available on the LT40 Standard HD.  Also available as a retrofit kit.

[DR_Buck]

I fixed that problem years ago with my 4 powered back stop mod - now standard on the LT40 Super and available on the LT40 Standard HD.  Also available as a retrofit kit.

Now all they have to do at WM is figure out how to do it on the new LT50.  Most likely needed on the LT70 as well.

[Bibbyman]

I fixed that problem years ago with my 4 powered back stop mod - now standard on the LT40 Super and available on the LT40 Standard HD.  Also available as a retrofit kit.

Now all they have to do at WM is figure out how to do it on the new LT50.  Most likely needed on the LT70 as well.

When I was down at Mt. Vernon last weekend I looked  hard at the way the LT70 pushes the back supports up and down.  As you may know from my other post asking questions about the LT70, we’re considering upgrading.  But haveing only two power back supports is a big show stopper.

Converting the two middle manual back supports to link in to the power one is more complicated than on the LT40. The linkage is quite a bit different and the pivot points are not common with the two manual supports.  It'd take some head scrachin'  to get the linkage and levers right to get power to the middle two supports.   I think it's worth a try but it’d take a lot of prototyping and it’d help to have a CAD system to work it out “on paper” first.

[Dave Shepard]

Bibbyman, just remember to send the research and development bill to WM.


Dave

[Nate Surveyor]

Did you know that the history of marriage licenses goes back to mixed marriages? Colored, or whatever. The church would not sanction the marriage, so the state did. It actually forms a 3 way contract with you, wife, and the state as the 3rd party. This allows the state to adjudicate in case of a disolution of license, ie, divorce!

Soo...

you may need a license to do this!



( I'm jes hackin on ya!) Not the miscegination history, but your miser and baker wedding!

Nate

[Mr Mom]

     I might have read over the answer but why a Baker and not Wood-Mizer??
     I dont want to make anyone madits just a question..


     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

[Bibbyman]

     I might have read over the answer but why a Baker and not Wood-Mizer??
     I dont want to make anyone madits just a question..


     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Ah-ha!  I was wondering when someone was going to ask that question!

Wood-Mizer has two decks 12’ and 20’ long that will “plug and play” with an LT40 Super, LT70 or LT300.

 

CustomSawyer's Wood-Mizer deck.


We looked long and hard at the Wood-Mizer deck.  We checked with a number of Wood-Mizer owners with decks and they were happy with them.  All were LT300 or LT70 owners.  It’s the easy way for Wood-Mizer owners.

One main problem we had with it was that it is a two strand deck about 72” apart.  It also has two loading arms about 60” apart.  We saw so many short logs we felt it would be a problem keeping them from falling through the deck or off the loading arms.

 

The Baker deck has three strands basically 4’ on center.  It also has 4 loading arms.  Thus,  in theory – as we’ve not tried it yet,  we should be able to load 5’- 7’ logs on two strands and not have to worry about them falling through.

This was not a “standard” deck for Baker.  It is built special for the 30” deck height and they included the splitter valves so it could be operated with one valve (the log loading arms) on the Wood-Mizer.

[footer]

Hey Bibby,
Are the log loader arms on the WM still usable, or are they disconnected?

[Bibbyman]

Hey Bibby,
Are the log loader arms on the WM still usable, or are they disconnected?

 

We took the loading arms off the mill maybe three years ago and went back to a "dead deck" system.

[Gustavo]

    congratulations .... dont be afraid with the colour     never more backpain

im  have mixed colors too   lt40   resaw ax baker,  and another   home made equipments

dalton  was rigth

[footer]

Hey Bibby,
Are the log loader arms on the WM still usable, or are they disconnected?

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

We took the loading arms off the mill maybe three years ago and went back to a "dead deck" system.

So how do you get the log against the back stops? Do you use the clamp? Or do you roll them by hand? 

[Bibbyman]

Hey Bibby,
Are the log loader arms on the WM still usable, or are they disconnected?

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

We took the loading arms off the mill maybe three years ago and went back to a "dead deck" system.

So how do you get the log against the back stops? Do you use the clamp? Or do you roll them by hand? 

 

We just rolled them with a handy, dandy LogRite cant hook. 

See.... We saw a lot of short logs.  The loading arms don't work real well with short logs.  Even if they're long enough to load by the loading arms,  it's a chore to get them centered and on the arms to load.  The two steel tubes of the "dead deck" we had floated left and right. So if we had long logs we could spread them out.  If we had short logs we could put them close together.  We found it was less work to just roll the log onto the deck than to roll the logs onto the loading arms.

 

Then too,  we sometimes saw ERC that are pretty small and light.  We can mound a bunch up on the dead deck and then when it's time to saw the next one,  just flip in onto the mill by hand - most of the time.  We'd use the cant hook on the bigger ones.  Here we're squaring out 6x6s for a customer.  Note the squared out ones going down the line. Also note the 36" LogRite Mill Special on the ground under the two logs on the dead deck.

 

We used the Terex to load the deck and to catch the RR ties or larger timbers as they roll off the outfeed line.

 

It sure would be nice to have an outfeed system for the lumber.  Right now that's Mary.

[footer]

 

It sure would be nice to have an outfeed system for the lumber.  Right now that's Mary.

Thanks Bibby!

Thats the main reason I would want to go to an LT70, although for me the 2 back stops are a killer as well. I also cut a lot of short stuff.

[eamassey]

Hello, I'm not sawing yet- in the middle of building a mill.  It is slow because I always have 20 interests going on at any one time.  They all soak up time and money.  I have a log table drawn up in AutoCad, with a backstop at 4 feet intervals (2', 6', 10', 14', 18'), all powered by a single (double acting) hydraulic cylinder- with tie rod linkage to each individulal backstop.  Does this sound like a good plan to you regular users?

A second point, I have an idea to have a raiseable-retractable-tiltable double live chain inside the log table- for use as both a log positioner and log-or-cant turner.  I saw something like this on a Baker (I think) one time.  Any comments this type feature?

My concept is a sloped slightly downhill-to-mill dead deck about 20 feet long, spaced 4', 4', 5', 5'- using railroad track.   Any comments on this idea?

[Tom]

4 hydraulic backstops, (clamps) is a decent idea if you are cutting toward them.  It will help to have two used at a time to secure the log or cant.  I doubt that you will use more than two at a time.

If your "backstops" are leveling dogs, You will be best off using them 2 at a time.  Most mills arrange them about 6 or 6.5 feet apart.  Just consider that you might have to be able to reach two real close to the clamp for short logs.  When you try to use more than 2 at a time, it complicates their lineup.  One will always be out of line with the others, like a 4 legged chair on a rough floor.

The chain turner is a good way to go.  Don't make it too complicated.  It has to take a beating.

I know a lot of guys like iron, but I would rather have wood as a deck.  You will want to be able to check a log for metal right up to the last moment before it hits the mill.  When the deck is iron, you have eliminated that area from metal detector use.

[Bibbyman]

I got around to getting a couple 3-5 more pictures of the deck and some details of how it was set up.

 

Electric controlled hydraulic splitter valves are mounted under the front corner of the frame. The are needed so that I can use one valve on the mill (the one that would run the loading arms) to run both the chains on the deck and the loading arms.

I asked for and thought there would have been some shielding over the valves and wiring.  The valves are tucked under the "arm pit" of the frame where they should be safe.  But still the wiring looks awful exposed.


 

The hydraulic hoses and electric cable were run through a 3" plastic pipe.  We used quick connectors where they connected to the valves.  The cable can be unplugged so it'll be easy to disconnect the deck and move it out.  (or plug in a new mill.)

Just goes to show that you shouldn't throw anything out.  I had a 16' yellow extension cord that we used on the electric chain saw.  Well,  I set the saw down one time before the chain had stopped and it whacked off the cord about 1' from the end.  I hadn't got around to repairing it or throwing it away.  So I wired the sort end into the deck and ran the long end to the switch on the control panel.  There wasn't 6" too much cable.  I can now just unplug the deck if I want to move it or the mill.  (You can see it plugged in in the upper picture.)

 

The fist lever there beside the switch controls the flow of hydraulics to the selector valves. We drilled a hole in the control panel next to the levers to install a switch to control the valves.  It was pretty simple to wire in - even without directions. The toggle UP position works the loading arms. The toggle DOWN works the chains. 

If you look close, you’ll note that the shield just right of the switch is missing a stove bolt.  Well,  we wired everything up and it worked fine.  Then we put the shield back on and it wouldn’t switch to the loading arms.  “What’s the deal?”.  It had tripped a breaker in the circuit.   Got to looking and the stove bolt had screwed right into the hot contact on the switch and shorted it out.  I should have drilled the hole 1/2" lower.  Or I could use a shorter bolt.  In any case, it works now. 

BTW,  this is the same method Wood-Mizer uses to install a deck on an LT40.   I noted that the new mill have a hole already there beside the valve body.

 

The loading arm cylinder has some kind of valve with a knob.  I assume it's to adjust the speed of the arms raising or lowering or both.  I've not messed with it.  I guess I'll need to ask as I didn't get a manual with the deck.

[Todd]

Congrats Mary+Bibby! Thats a good looking set-up! (Plus I like seeing more Blue in here!)
Is the deck moving the smaller logs ok, or are you having to manually move some?

[Bibbyman]

Congrats Mary+Bibby! Thats a good looking set-up! (Plus I like seeing more Blue in here!)
Is the deck moving the smaller logs ok, or are you having to manually move some?

I’ve had a few small logs (Eastern Red Cedar) that didn’t roll on down for some small reason. And I’ve had a few big logs not roll down because a bump or flat spot hit just wrong.  With the small cedar logs it just took a nudge by hand to get them going.  Some of the big logs that hung still worked better getting after them with the LogRite mill special. Even still,  it was no big effort to get them going.

We just got done sawing 25 or so 8’ oak logs.  All were 13-20” diameter.  All but a couple rolled on down fine.  The couple that didn’t only took a little nudge by hand to get them going.

With the incline of the loading arms as they are,  the logs roll gently onto the deck and usually against the back supports.  They always go far enough for the clamp to get them.  If the incline was set steeper, it may load the small and rough logs better but may cause the logs to hit with a lot more force. 

I’m happy with it loading most of them.  It’s still a great asset.

[Bibbyman]

Ol’ buddy Tom_In_Mo a.k.a. Tom Stout of Baker called me Thursday afternoon.  He said it was to check up on how I was getting along with the log deck he sold us.  But I think it was just a nasty February day and he just wanted to visit. 

Anyway,  he started doing a little back peddling when I told him I wasn’t a bit happy with the deck.  “Oh? What’s the matter?”  “Dang thing don’t work. That’s what the matter is.”  “What do you mean it don’t work?” “Well,  when it gets down below freezing and I’m in here by the stove,  it just sets out there and won’t do a thing.” His reply,  “Operator malfunction.”

We went on to have a good conversation and solved most of the problems of the world – if the world would just listen to us.

That conversation sure enough jinks the deck though.  Son and I were sawing this morning and the loading arms would not lower.  There is a set of electronic valves that split the hydraulic flow from the chain motor to the loading arms.  It was not “kicking”.  I had a little problem with it on Friday but thought maybe it was because the oil was cold or something because it started working.  This time it wouldn’t.

So I got out my volt meter and traced the problem down to a bad wire connection in the junction box.  My bad.  When we installed the wiring to deck, I had used an extension cord I had accidentally cut about 1’ from one end.  Worked slick except for two things.  One,  The cord was not big enough for the connector in the bottom of the box to grip – thus any tug on the cord would be a tug on the wire connection in the box. And two,  in my hurry,  I used a twist type connectors to bunch two groups of three wires together. It finally lost its connection.

I did find a box clamp that would hold the cord wire tight.  That fixed that problem.  I should have put more effort into making a better connection.  But I found a couple of larger twist connectors and applied them.  I had help standing around and if I didn’t get him back to work in short order,  he’d be gone.  So that’s what I did and it works.



Here is the junction box and cord coming out of the bottom that I was talking about above.

[beav39]

congrats bibby looks great ,did you say you powered it with the sawmill?

[bandmiller2]

Good show Bibby,you realize its pretty little arse is out in the weather.A dead deck with a slight pitch twords the baker and a roof over all and their would be a couple of days worth under cover.Frank C.

[beav39]

thanks bibby the pics are great seems pretty easy to set up good luck