Scots pine vs Red pine...how do I tell?

[Ever Green]

Just trying to tell the difference...

[SwampDonkey]

red pine

[adirondack harvester]

Red Pine.

[Ever Green]

Hey thanks for the replys...but without Scots to compare to I'm still a little foggy


thanks again
Vince

[Reddog]

Here is a link for scots.

scots pdf link

[jon12345]

Scots pine has shorter needles, and usually the bole isn't as straight as a red pine.  Also the bark really chips off the top of scots so the bottom part looks like a red pine, and the top part is almost smooth and orange, sometimes even with a little green on it.

[tonich]

I consider needle’s length the most distinguished difference.
SP has 4-7 cm. long needles, while RP has 12-18 cm.
Also, as far as I can figure out from Swamp’s, RP has dark green needles. SP’s are green with some suggestion of blue.
Bark color and bole form are quite variable (regarding Scots Pine), so I’d suggest not to be taken into consideration.

I have never seen Red Pine, but here is what they say about:

The leaves snap cleanly when bent; this character, stated as diagnostic for Red Pine in some texts

Taken from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pine

[WDH]

If I remember correctly from eons ago, the cones are different.  If you look into a scots pine cone at the place where the seed wing laid on the cone scale, there will be a distinctly contrasting color between the impression left by the seed wing and the surrounding areas on the cone scale (down where the seed is held by the cone).  This is found on both virginia pine and scots pine.  In red pine, there is no sharp contract in color.  The color of the impression of the seed wing and the surrounding area on the cone scale is not in sharp contrast.

I do not have a scots pine cone to photograph, but I can get a virginia pine cone and photograph it to show this color difference.

Also, scots pine needles are short.  Red pine needles are medium long.  The bark of scots pine is more orange and can look kind of scaly higher up the stem on older trees.

Here are some pics that I took in Sweden of Scots pine on its native site.
In the first pic, notice how the bark color turns to orange as you go up the stem.  In this photo of a tree being felled, look for the orange color on the standing tree in the background:
 

In this pic of a very old stem, notice the bolt on the left of the butt log.  You can just make out how the bark is beginning to turn scaly:
 

In this pic, notice the bark smoothing up and turning to orange with height up the stem:
 

Hope this helps   The bark should look different from red pine bark which does not get scaly with height and does not turn orange.

[SwampDonkey]

Here are some Red Pine cones:

[SwampDonkey]

Red pine, according to tree improvement people, is one of those species that mother nature got right. It has good form, good branching habit, straight, and fast growing. There has been study of different provinences of the species and the genetic variation is miniscule.

[WDH]

SwampDonkey's red pine cone pic shows the first cone with the seeds in them.  The seed wing is clearly visible. 

In virginia pine, and I believe scots pine, there is a pronounced color difference between the scar left by the seed wing and the area surrounding the seed wing scar, particularly at the tip of the cone scale.  It is almost as if the interior border surrounding the seed wing is purple.

Here are a couple of pics of virginia pine cones to illustrate the color contrast I am trying to describe.......
In this pic, you can see the seed wing on the right upper side of the cone:
 

In the second pic, you can clearly see the purple-like color contrast between where the seed wing was and the inside tip of the cone scale:
 

[SwampDonkey]

Red Pine cone scales



The seeds in the cone were duds and not developed, from a young tree.

[WDH]

Those red pine cone scales in Swamp's pic have the purple tips too.  So much for my cone theory .  This pic indicates that red pine is one of those with the purple tips too.  In that case, we are back to bark texture/color and needle length .

SwampDonkey,  Since I am many many miles from any red pine, can you find any more samples to verify the purple tip theory?  Like I said earlier, it was eons ago that I studied cones, and I might well have the cone scale color phenom for scots pine wrong......

[SwampDonkey]

They are dark purple on the back side of the scale. And not really purple on the tip-edge of the seed wings, just a little darker brown. I looked on wild trees and nursery stock trees. So your safe.

[IndyIan]

In my area Red Pines are very straight (sold for hydro poles)and Scots pines usually don't have one 8' straight log in them.  There are 100's of plantations of each here and I feel bad for the poor folks that got talked into Scots pines...  The best thing that could happen is a fire for most of those plantations....

[SteveB]

As was said earlier, I'd say the most obvious difference is in the colour of the trunks of mature trees.  Red pine is a fairly consistent grey and red bark colour from stump to leader (top).  Around here (close to upstate NY) mature Scotts Pine will have a distinct change in bark colour/form at about 2/3 of the way up, changing from redish grey (similar to red pine)to relatively bright orange. 

Also, as was said earlier, red pine has good form (even relatively good when open grown) and is very consistent due to its lack of genetic diversity, while most (95%?) of the scotts pine in Ontraio has extremely crappy form (usually multiple crooks, often forked main stems and radical stem taper).  The storey goes that the seed brought here from Europe happened to be from trees genetically predisposed to poor form.  Not sure if it's genetics or different climate, but the scotts pine you see in picutres from Europe have vastly different (better) form than what you'll see here.  I have seen the odd plantation of Scotts pine in eastern Canada (&US) with OK looking form, but in the vast majority of cases it has incredibly bad form. 

[WDH]

I bet it is genetics as well, SteveB.  Those scots pine in Sweden were fine.

[LT40HDD51]

Is Scots pine the same as Jack pine?

[Reddog]

No.

Jack Pine (Pinus banksiana)
Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris )

[WDH]

Scots pine is not native to North America.  Jack Pine is native.