A tree I saw in Arizona (many images)

[Lanier_Lurker]

These trees were planted as ornamentals in the apartment complex I stayed at in Scottsdale, Arizona during Thanksgiving.

The wood is reddish and has no bark, and the leaves and leaflets strongly resemble rosemary (the spice).

Anyone know what this is?

[SwampDonkey]

Thinking it's swamp Cyrilla Cyrilla racemiflora also known as palo colorado (leatherwood, Titi, red tree)

The leaves don't look right though, they resemble a willow, but willow I know are white woods like aspen.

What happened to the bark? 

Thinking it's some type of shrub and not a tree.

[Lanier_Lurker]

I had to crop the pictures down so much to fit the size restrictions that it is difficult to determine any scale.

The diameter of the tree in the vicinity of that branch is at least a foot, and the tree is easily 25ft tall.

While the leaflets do bear a strong resemblance to rosemary (both in size and shape) they are somewhat larger and more elongated than rosemary.  Also, they have a similar texture.

I'm hoping there is a member here with some landscaping experience (or contacts) in Arizona.  I'll go back through my pictures and try to find a better shot of the leaves.

[WDH]

That is not like the swamp cyrilla that I have seen.  I have never seen it anywhere that big.  It is usually associated with gallberry and greenbriar and forms impenetrable thickets in the lower coastal plain from North Carolina to Texas.  It likes a wet site.  The flower is a long stalk with many small flowers on it (a raceme ).  Very showy.  Grows in clumps.  Here is a pic in flower.

http://arboretum.sfasu.edu/plants/cyrillaracemiflora/

[SwampDonkey]

It does grow in tree form and also found in Puerto Rico and the West Indies, Central America to Brazil.  Up to 30' and 8" diameter.

But as I said earlier the leaves aren't the same.

I'm going with some exotic willow.

[LeeB]

Desert wilow maybe? I don't think desert willow is actually a willow though.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Here are a couple more pictures.

Hopefully the one with my hand in it will help provide some scale for the foliage.

This one seemed to have everyone stumped on the identification forum over at arborday.org as well.

It is one peculiar tree.  I wish I had some better pictures, as these were taken at night with a flash.

[treecyclers]

Yes, I know exactly what it is.
I have about 5000 boardfeet of it on hand, and it's hard as concrete.
It's Red Gum Eucalyptus, one of my less favorite woods to mill, but it's SO darn pretty that it's worth it.
To see the lumber that tree provides, see my website and go to the lumber page. It's on the right.
As an aside, I have about 20 tons of logs to mill, all of that species, that I am procrastinating on.....
Dave

[beenthere]

treecyclers

Nice pics in your website.

[SwampDonkey]

 

Ah!! a Eucalyptus.  I knew there was something about them leaves. Willow just wasn't narrow enough and I could remember seeing similar leaves on an earlier thread.

Good job treecyclers.

[treecyclers]

And, I forgot to mention that I am looking for figured woods, and am willing to swap for eucalyptus, acacia, mesquite, and other fun stuff I have on hand....anyone wanna trade?
Superdave

[Lanier_Lurker]

Treecyclers, you are the man!

Thanks for clearing this up!

[Lanier_Lurker]

Ooops, I forgot to ask.

Is this a native or an exotic?

[WDH]

Exotic with a big E.  Native to Australia.  Koala bear food .  A long way from home . 

[treecyclers]

Is this a native or an exotic?

Originally, it was brought to the US from Australia, and the species has diverged slightly from what is native to AU.
The trees here are a little darker in the heartwood than it's siblings, and the wood is tremendously hard. Perhaps that's due to it being in the desert, or the minerals in the soil here.
What I do know that, once it's tooled, it takes a really nice finish, is extremely durable, and is gorgeous as furniture.
It's a stinker to dry, as is suffers grain collapse in the extreme, and loves to crack and check. I combat that by filling in fissures with tinted epoxy, which really adds to the unique aspects of the furniture that I build with it.
Superdave

[Lanier_Lurker]

How big do they get?  Some of your lumber looks to be pretty good size.

[Texas Ranger]

Up front, I am poor on tropical trees, but, that being said, I thought Eucalyptus had a broad leaf, fan shaped rather than a needle shape.

[SwampDonkey]

No, don't think so TR unless it's a relative or something. They are willow-like in shape or much narrower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus#Leaves

[Lanier_Lurker]

 
I hate to question people that probably know more than I about things, but I've looked around the net at numerous pictures of the Red Gum Eucalyptus foliage - and it shore don't look like the foliage on this tree.

The leaflets on this tree are like very short pine needles, but with a glossy finish and soft texture.  They bend easily without breaking and are rubbery.

[Texas Ranger]

After looking at wikipedia, even more convinced it is something else.

[SwampDonkey]

Yip, me to. We keep searching. 

[SwampDonkey]

I had looked at a site with shrubs and trees from Arizona some time ago and didn't see it there. It's very likely to be non native, don't even see it in Audubon or Peterson's.

[Ianab]

Eucalyptus is about 700 species of tree, some do have leaves like that.

I'm not up with all the species, and they have all sorts of common names even in Australia. The bark and trunk do look like a Euc species, but I cant tell you which one.

Ian

[SwampDonkey]

Ianab, this sure has me stumped. I've seen those leaves somewhere before, but I can't pin it down. Not saying it's Eucalyptus, not saying it isn't, got no clue. 

[WDH]

I know that I know that I do not know what it is.............(How about that Tom, three knows in one short sentence ).

[beenthere]

Is it possibly a dead tree without bark, and some type of parasitic plant growing from it?  Just a wild guess, but what it appears to me. Or an artificial plant stuck to the dead tree. ?

[Tom]

Well, the original pictures don't look to me like Pine needles or juniper or cedar or cypress....

I think the Eucalyptus ID is on the money.

[solodan]

Eucalyptus is about 700 species of tree, some do have leaves like that.

I think we have 400 species of euc that were introduced here in California, I have seen plenty of different  species, but never have I seen any with leaves like that. We may have some here with leaves like that but I was unaware that it was Eucalyptus.

[Tom]

I'm not a Euc expert, just looking at pictures in the books and on the web.  Those look more like Lance-shaped dicotomus leaves to me.  They may have  been under stress or duress, which could affect the size, but they sure don't look like a needle.  I put a lot of stock in the suggestions of the felows from "down under" 'cause they saw them.


I'm not afraid to be wrong. 

[Lanier_Lurker]

 

Ok, I've got to go back thru my pictures and see if I can find more of this tree.  I know I took several.

Stay tuned.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Ok, this thing is still bugging me.

Here are some more pictures.

Unfortunately, these are the best pictures I have of this tree.  I took them at night.  The resemblance of the foliage to rosemary is what catches my eye, but the needles/leaves are a bit longer than rosemary.  And the reddish color of the wood with absolutely no bark is a definite eyecatcher.

Perhaps some of our desert-dwelling members from the southwest can help identify this thing.

Sorry for the density and number of images, but I am trying to present sufficient detail to help with the identification.

[SwampDonkey]

One thing for sure, it's probably dead with no bark. 

Did the tree (wood) have any odor?

[Lanier_Lurker]

While I cannot be certain, I do not believe the tree was dead.

I seem to recall that there were several of these trees planted on this apartment property.  Unfortunately, my stepson has moved away from there to Wisconsin - so I cannot send him out to take more pictures.

Again, the foliage was very much like that on a rosemary bush - although not as dense and the leaves/needles were a little longer than rosemary.

A very odd looking tree indeed.  These pictures do not do justice to the red color of the wood.

[SwampDonkey]

I guess what looks like no bark, must actually be really thin smooth bark. Sure looks like some whicked spiral grain action happening to. That could indicate really young or really old. If we assume it is a hardwood species, this habit with right hand spiral occurs in young trees and often increases in angle from pith to cambium. I make that statement based on dated information in the Wood Tech text. That still doesn't get us closer to it's identity, or does it? There looks like a wound similar to what might be found in a resinous hardwood such as Eucalyptus.

Southern blue gum, Eucalyptus globulus is of interest here I think because of growth habits and traits.

"The bark shreds often, peeling in large strips......The broad juvenile leaves are borne in opposite pairs on square stems. They are about 6 to 15 cm long and covered with a blue-grey, waxy bloom, which is the origin of the common name "blue gum". The mature leaves are narrow, sickle-shaped and dark shining green. They are arranged alternately on rounded stems and range from 15 to 35 cm in length. " [Wikipedia]

Now, I am not saying that this is southern blue gum. But, from images I've seen of the trunk, right spiral grain, bark shedding and narrow mature leaves I can only conclude it to be some species of Eucalyptus. I have recently found out that this species , southern blue gum, is cultivated in California, Arizona, and Hawaii and is the most extensively planted eucalyptus species in the world. I have since found out there are other Eucalyptus species planted in Arizona and other states not mentioned. Good chance it's Eucalyptus.

Eucalyptus nicholii , willow peppermint, is in the ball park, but not definitive.

[WDH]

I also believe that it is probably a Eucalypt.

[isawlogs]

 
  Well Danny, I know that you know that I dont know that you do not know what it is.. There I got one more in there . 

 

[WildDog]

Not the variety of Redgum I have on my place guys, mine have a broader leaf, can't say what it is, though I know I've seen this folliage before, with narrow foliage like that my guess would be from an arid region, the bark or lack of it is similar to an Angophra (this is a fire retardant Euc due to minimal bark) the only narrow leaf Eucalyptus I know of is E. Viminalis known as willow gum. We have so many varieties of Euc's down here it is frustrating trying to identify them. Even Redgums have a lot of varieties, to name a couple Blakley's and River Redgums. I have River Reds on my property and like Treecylers said it's hard, great firewood and fence posts. I recently made a rustic bookshelf from some fence posts that were put in 80yrs ago by my mates grandfather. We do have some acacias that have a narrow leaf.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah I investigated red gum and LL's tree isn't a red gum, usually it's on river bank and I "assume" planted for erosion control in sensitive areas. While looking at where these trees come from, many come from little pockets spread out in south eastern Australia.

[WDH]

  Well Danny, I know that you know that I dont know that you do not know what it is.. There I got one more in there . 

 

Wow, Marcel, I didn't know that .

[treecyclers]

Actually, those photos are of a red gum eucalyptus.
THey grow strangely in some sections of AZ, due to climate and soil minerals that are prevalent here.
It's pretty wood, but it's a DanG pain to deal with for a couple reasons.
First, it doesn't dry worth a DanG. It suffers cellular collapse and obnoxious amounts of checking and twist no matter how I slice it. I have to cut 7/4 to 8/4 to get decent 4/4 stock from it, as anything less than 1.75" thick ends up looking like bacon when it dries out.
The wood is so red, and it tends to be pretty juicy when cutting it fresh, I keep one set of clothes strictly for cutting eucs.
I have seen them up to 4' diameter in Phoenix, and well over 8' diameter in SO CAL, near Camp Pendleton.
They're a transplant from Australia, as I think was mentioned earlier.
They're really dangerous in the storms that we get in the Phoenix area, as they tend to be pretty brittle with very weak branch unions, especially as they get large - like 60' and taller.
Many people are taking them out of their yards for exactly that reason too, as they were really popular 25-35 years ago, making them pretty mature trees today.
They grow really fast, consume lots of water, and the bark is really thick - up to 3" thick in some cases.
As firewood, it burns really hot and really long, but it's really stinky too, due to the oils in it.
The leaves are exactly what I see very frequently, especially when there's an acacia within a couple hundred feet of a euc.
Don't know why, but when I see euc leaves like that, I look for the acacia nearby. I like acacia a LOT more than euc, and it smells better too!
Superdave

[SwampDonkey]

I believe you about the leaves and probably you have the species to. From looking at the way these things grow and how the leaves can change shape from juvenile to mature it's certainly possible. As you say, add in Arizona climate and there is a whole new twist to the way they grow and develop. I have also read some messages on horticultural forums complaining about how these trees shed branches, bark and what not making a mess for those that like immaculate lawns.

[treecyclers]

A few things I have learned in dealing with AZ trees over the past few years, and having worked in construction a few beyond that:
1) The rules that work elsewhere don't work in AZ.
2) Murphy has a sick sense of humor in AZ
3) Homeowner's Income is typically directly proportionate to the complexity of the job
4) Homeowner income is also directly proportionate to the volume of nitpicking
5) Anyone trying to save a few bucks on a removal by hiring illegals with a pickup truck will inherently spend more to hire someone else to fix their mistakes and the damage they create.
6) Eucalyptus doesn't like windstorms.
7) The ambient temperature directly influences the cost of a job
One's ability to speak english is proportionate to the price of a job
9) Irrigation systems are easy to break, difficult to repair
10) A $4 pack of lawn flags is well worth the investment to save a $750 irrigation repair job
11) Waterproof sunscreen isn't. 12 hour sunscreen works for about 6.
12) Carbide tipped chains are well worth the cost, when dealing with mesquite and ironwood
13) The gravel we love in our xeriscape yards grows into the trees.
14) Chainsaws don't like rocks, especially the ones inside the trees.
15) Check inside the trunks of rotted trees for foreign objects. But, smoke a fat cigar while doing it.
16) Bees love hollow tree trunks.
17) People love stuffing things into rotted trees. Especially concrete, cinder blocks, bricks, and used diapers.
18) Any job that's difficult will inevitably result in the homeowner's relative being a lawyer.
19) Stupid people are everywhere. 1 in 5 people are idiots. Check your 4 favorite friends. If they're not, it's you.
20) A 5 man crew times 2 beers per person equals 2 cases.
21) Don't let the hispanics buy the beer. They come back with rotgut nasty el cheapo buzzard urine that's unfit for normal human consumption.