Marking a property line.

[Jeff]

I plan on having a surveyor do this later this year, but the one I am in contact with in the area winters in California and may not be back until early summer.

I know where two of the steel pins are for the corners of my property. The northwest corner, and the northeast corner.  The north and west sides of the property are bordered by roads, the east line is marked by what I am told is an actual survey, although probably 7 or 8 years old, on the property to the east. It is marked with some flagged chunks of conduit and cedar saplings turned into stakes.  That leaves the property line to the south as an unknown. With this information, should I be able to get pretty close to finding and marking that back line?  Lou Kurtis across the road, says he has all the stuff for running it that I can use. I'm not sure of the equipment names, but I think its a compass on a tripod that is set to the correct declination for that area, and also some sort of line measuring device that clips to your belt.

[thecfarm]

I know some of you are going to die when I say this,but my Father and me marked many of the old farm lines here.All that we had was a 500 foot rope and an axe.I could not walk in a straight line so my Father would lead and I would fellow.He would walk 500 feet and stop and I would put the end of the rope on a stick that he made sure I saw before he would walk off.Not the best way,but we measured off the piece that I have now and someone just had thier side surveyed and we missed it by 8 feet,not bad for 1½ miles.I gained,they lost land.Probaly if it was the other way they would be banging on my door.That is why it really should be surveyed if you have picky neigbors.My father was contacted often to find the lines of the land was bought and sold around here.Sometimes we would measure a piece and it would not come out right.We would have to start all over and do it again. All points HAVE to read what is on the deed.

[Jeff]

The purpose of marking my back line, isn't for trespass sake, its so as Ron Scott has said to me, "So we can manage to the edges".  Is that my tree or your tree?    (I hope its mine )

[thecfarm]

You should be able to get the line in the back right.May take a few times if you never done it before.Lets say one side reads 4500 feet on one side,3500 on the front,6550 on the other side and the back is 5700.If this is what is wrote on the deed.From what I read you all ready know where 4 points are,correct?You should be able to get the back line easy,the way we use to do it.The key word here is you have to walk in a straight line and measure correctly.All you have to do is read the deed and found out how much footage is on that back line and measure it out.From what I understand you have to walk from one point to the next in a straight line and come out with 5700 feet with my example.All mearurements have to read what the deed calls for.Yes at times we would be a few feet off,but my Dad was real fussy when it came to doing a job right.

[Corley5]

Staff compass and a hip chain 

[sawguy21]

With the two pins, you should be able to get an accurate survey with a transit and a surveyor's chain (tape). You will need a licensed surveyor for it to hold up in court in case of a dispute.

[Larry]

Well lets see...a new surveyor will show the existing pins as “found”.  He will put new pins where he thinks your boundary is...may or may not coincide with the found pins.  Than you may want an second even third opinion...surveyors are an independent lot and seldom agree with each other.  And a little known fact...errors and omissions insurance is to high for most of em to carry.

Do as Corley5 suggested and save yourself a bunch of money.  Wouldn’t take much to do one side of 20 acres.  Try to get your neighbor involved.  TSI shouldn’t be any problem...timber harvest you may want to go a step further.

[thecfarm]

The way that I read Jeff's post he IS going to get it surveyed,he just wants to know ABOUT where the line is now,not wait until early summer to get it surveyed. There is nothing legal about the way that I told him to do it.It will only get him a guess at the line.But if it was done correctly should be very close.I sure would not want to get any wood cut or do anything close to the line unless the other guy agrees and you can trust him on his word.I do know where all of my lines are,even though most have never been surveyed.All of the others landowners have had there lots cut off by going by my Fathers lines.I hope he is right.Times and people are differant than what they were 30 years ago.

[Jeff]

I drew a rough diagram of the property layout.



Here is the situation.

The red dot at the road corner is where the pin is. It also happens to be the section corner, so I doubt if a surveyor is going to mess with moving that.  As you can see by the diagram, caribou does not run directly east and west. My understanding is also the declination is 6° off of west.

The red dot to the south east is the other pin. It is not in the road, but on the opposite side of the ditch.

The east line is marked, but it is marked on through to the corner of the neighboring 80 acres, no corner is marked.

I am guessing, simply measuring in from the pin 660 feet on that line should give me that corner. I am also guessing that measuring 660 feet from the section corner to the north will give me the other corner, however, I dont know if the road runs parallel to the property or not, which seems if it didn't, would throw me off.

[Jeff]

The surveyor is licensed that I was going to use, and I was going to use him, one, because my new neighbor across the road recommended him, two, because he was cheap, estimate about 3 hundred to run the back line, Three, because he is the son of the man who owns the 80 to the east of me and he ran that line, and 4, because he is cheap.

However, if I could run the line myself, being reasonably sure it is close, I would be satisfied with that as that backside of the land's main use, especially the back corner area will most probably be best suited as being left for bedding areas for deer as its used for that now.

[Onthesauk]

All the property on our road was marked off originally by a dairy farmer with a compass and pacing it off.  As a result, there have been at least 5 court cases over the years, we were involved in the last one.  We had a survey done before we bought, sent copies to all the neighbors and still got sued a couple of years later by some crazy city people.

Getting ready to have the survey crew back to flag my back line, just to make sure I don't cut anything too far back.  The rest of the corners and lines are still pretty clear.  On the original survey they marked corners and a stake 200' out each way.  That's fine in the open or the flat; doesn't help much up in the timber or hills.

[Larry]

With the section corner on your property it should be a snap to survey...even with crude instruments and come up close.  Very carefully read your property description...sometimes the angle of the dangle is what gets ya.

With the surveyor being the neighbors son...$300 might be a bargain.

I feel the real problem with marking a line is the accuracy of the survey methods.  Accuracy increases drastically every few years...gps, lazers, and pc’s.  I have one line that has been surveyed twice...ten foot difference...should I pay to get it surveyed a third time or take a chance and go to court?  In this case me and my present neighbor agree where the line is...where the old fence line stood.

[Gary_C]

What does the property description on the deed or abstract say? The distances for each side should be shown on the deed and or abstract.

One thing you should do is order topographic maps of the area from the USGS. Use their index and find your quadrangle and when you get that it will have contour lines and grid references that can be entered into a GPS. The most detailed one will be the 7.5 Minute Series (Topographic)

They also have aerial photos but I have such a slow connection that I have never explored those photos. You can order online or they list some resellers.

[Jeff]

This is how my description reads on the deed.

Parcel A:
The Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4, Section 27, Town 42 North, Range 3 East.

Parcel B:
The Northeast 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4, Section 27, Town 42 North, Range 3 East.

[Jeff]

So I assume its a rectangle with 660 foot ends and 1320 foot sides with the corner at that pin in the road.. 

[Jeff]

Question:

If I knew that my North west corner pin is at Lat=46.0" 84.05' N  Is there a formula to figure out what the latitude is 660 feet south of that? ( I dont know that, but I do know its within a couple feet)

[Radar67]

Jeff, your lat/lon 660 feet south of N46 00 00 W84 05 00 is N45 59 53.5 W84 05 00.0

I found this with my GPS software MAPSOURCE.

Stew

Is this the area?

[Gary_C]

If the road is 6 deg. off from the section line, since the sine of 6 deg is 0.1047, at 1320 feet, the difference from the center of the road to the section line would be 1320 x 0.1047 or 138.204 ft. At 660 feet it would be off 69.102 feet. In other words, if the section corner was in the center of the road and the road was 6 deg off from the line, at 1320 feet, your corner would be 138.204 ft from the center of the road. That looks to be a lot more than you show on your map.

You should check with the county engineer to see if they have a exact location and width of the road right of way, also a description of the utility right of way. It should included in the abstract if you have one although many county and township roads were not well documented in the past.

[Jeff]

Using your lat as the corner stew, This is what Comes up with on flashearth.  The center being your coordinate for  that corner.

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=46.012767&lon=-84.050305&z=17.2&r=0&src=yh




I dont have an abstract.

I'n not sure if the 6 degrees is the difference in the road, or the difference everything is from true North?

[Jeff]

In stews map, you can see the slight northern pat of N. Caribou as it heads east. Looks like the whole section has a list.

[Radar67]

In my map where Piesly intersects with N. Caribou, the line running to the northwest is a powerline. Is this your corner where the two roads intersect?

Stew

[Gary_C]

You can build your own abstract if you have the time and help from neighbors. Look at other abstracts of near by properties and find out where the descriptions excluded your property. Then go to the county courthouse and enlist the help from the county recorders office and find all entries after your property was separated from the others. If one person has owned it for many years, there should not be too many entries. It will take some time, but it is far cheaper than an abstract company.

The USGS maps do give the deviation from true north at the center of each map.

[Jeff]

In my map where Piesly intersects with N. Caribou, the line running to the northwest is a powerline. Is this your corner where the two roads intersect?

Stew

Yep, thats it the pin is in the middle of the road.  It sure is easy to find me on a satellite map with that powerline going through it.

Gary, I can track the property back easily to 1937, the year the first powerline easement was  signed, another was signed in 1957, bot signed by the same "Single Man".  The property then changed hands to a Mr. Smith, from who's trust I bought it.

[Sprucegum]

If I understand the map correctly, you have 2 pins offset to the same side of Paisley road. You can set your transit(angle finder) on that south pin, sight on the north pin, turn it 90 degrees and establish your south boundary. You will need to cut some to get a line-of-sight to the East boundary. When you get there you can check the distance to Caribou and check that against GaryC's figuring 

Establishing that line yourself will make it real easy (and maybe even cheaper!) for your surveyor to recheck it and approve it.

[Chet]

Yep, thats it the pin is in the middle of the road. It sure is easy to find me on a satellite map with that powerline going through it.

Gary, I can track the property back easily to 1937, the year the first powerline easement was signed, another was signed in 1957, bot signed by the same "Single Man". The property then changed hands to a Mr. Smith, from who's trust I bought it.

And now an unnamed yooper seems ta be in possession of dem easements. 

[Gary_C]

Tracking ownership is just one of the reasons for an updated abstract. It shoud also include any previous official county/township notices that affect the property, any road right of ways on or adjacent to the property, utility right of ways, liens judgments, or other claims against the property. Anything that has been filed at the county recorders office that affects your property. There may be nothing to find, but it is worth a trip to the courthouse to check. Usually the people in the recorders office will help you search for all records and make copies for a small fee. Also when you go to the county offices, you can go to the county engineer or county highway dept and get a legal description on the two roads along your property.

One other source of information is from www.rockfordmap.com. They sell plat books for many counties. I checked and if you are in Mackinac County they have a plat book updated in 2006 for $45.00. Chippewa County has not been updated since 1980 and it is cheaper, but outdated. They are also sold by the local soil and water conservation districts and you might talk them into making copies of the pages you need. Their plat books will show all the tracts and owners names and the newer versions also show if your section is irregular in shape due to the original survey.

[LeeB]

Where do you come up with all this stuff Gary? You're a walking font of information.

[Gary_C]

Where do you come up with all this stuff Gary? You're a walking font of information.

Well, I have bought and sold property in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Got a real education many years ago when I bought my present farm where the previous owner was bankrupt, had loans from the Federal Land Bank (now Ag Star), the FmHA and numerous liens from local businesses. Not something I want to go thru again.   

Other than that, I have plat books and topo maps from every area where I buy timber sales. Most of the sales have GPS references that I can locate on the topo maps and see the terrain before I look at the job. Also can program the location in my GPS so I can be sure I am in the right place when I get there.

This year one of the training classes for the MN Logger Education Program I will be taking on June 13 is Accessing Aerial Photos, Topo Maps, and other planning tools. I hope to learn more about aerial photos and GIS software.

Oh and the US Army originally taught me how to use topo maps.   

[Larry]

I drew a rough diagram of the property layout.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Here is the situation.

The red dot at the road corner is where the pin is. It also happens to be the section corner, so I doubt if a surveyor is going to mess with moving that.

This is how my description reads on the deed.

Parcel A:
The Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4, Section 27, Town 42 North, Range 3 East.

Parcel B:
The Northeast 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4 of the Northwest 1/4, Section 27, Town 42 North, Range 3 East.

With that property description the pin at the road corner can't be the section corner???  Of course I have been turned around, backwards, and lost before.

[Norm]

The power company recently put in a new power line along a road next to our field. To our amazement the poles were in the field not in the right of way ditch next to the field. The power company had a survey done and found that over time the county had gradually graded the road to make it off the correct path. N Caribou looks like you had the same guy running your maintainer.

[Jeff]

Larry,  the map you see that I drew out is south down.  the lower right corner is actually the northwest corner, although I may have the two tens that make up my twenty oriented wrong.

[jim king]

This is a survey Amazon style .  A few months ago we surveyed our property using a GPS and found we had about 5000 acres more than we thought.  It is not uncommon here to have coordinate errors up to 50 miles.  The surveys were done years ago and are a disaster but every one knows what tree or natural feature is on the corners of the property line.  That is much more valuable here that the maps that everyone knows are wrong.  This little tour took three weeks without coming out.

[Burlkraft]

Jim,

What's that for dinner there...    

[Larry]

Well now that I stand on my head the map makes perfect sense...but the writing is backwards.

Think I would work it like Sprucegum suggested.  Go ahead and run both the east and south line just to see if you get closure with the existing pins.

[snowman]

I used to run corridors for a yarder with a compass and it can be very accurate.The FS only wanted 6 ft wide corridors which over the course of 2000 feet over uneven ground can be a challange. Interesting thing is, when you look back at your ribbon line you will swear it curves.The lay of the land fools the eye. When the yarder set up and tightlined that was the test. If the line was off and you had to cut more trees you had to pay for them.This didn't put you in good standing with the boss! Around here old  property lines are notoriously innacurate and most people don't harvest trees within 10 feet of their line, it's just the way things have always been done but thats around here, as I've learned in this forum what happens here, stays here,kinda like Vegas

[jim king]

Burlkraft:  That is a full grown Amazonian deer.  Not like Wisconsin.

[Ron Scott]

One cannot go by roads as being on the boundary line though they may appear to be so on a the plat book, topo map, or aerial photos. I have run into a number of cases where a registered survey by a professional surveyor has placed the road well off the supposed section line.

Such cases have come back to "haunt" the landowner years after finding that the "assumed property line" was not the "correct line".

Using Michigan Law, only a Professional Surveyor, not an engineer, not an architect, not a landscape architect, or a forester, can do anything with establishing or reestablishing a corner or boundary line.

A certificate of survey from a registered professional surveyor is recommended as the best first investment for any forest landowner prior to initiating any resoruce management activities or to prevent trespass on the property.

As previously stated, the landowner is responsible for knowing where their property lines are. The first thing that the judge usually asks for in a trespass case is where is the "certificate of survey".

[Onthesauk]

Thinking about something that Snowman said about not cutting within 10 feet of property lines.  I notice around here that some of the biggest trees are near property lines.  I think over the years the loggers trying to be safe rather then sorry left trees along the lines.  My biggest cedar on 40 acres is within about 8 feet of my South line.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, that's what happens and the "true line" never gets determined. this may allow the neighbor to seek adverse possession to the "cutting line" should there ever be a dispute over the boundary line.

Neighbors don't seem to get along as well as they use to, especially when trees are being harvested.

[Nate Surveyor]

Whellll, (that's a slow southern drawl!)

You have a fractional piece of a bigger piece of property.

This means that you cannot know your property lines, According to the deed, without knowing   the size and shape of the whole. In this case, the whole is Section 27.

So, although the ASSUMED (can we all say assumed) dimensions of your land is 1320' E-W x 660 N-S. BUT, to properly lay your deed on the ground, your surveyor will HAVE to know the dimensions of Section 27.

UNLESS, there are old occupation lines, that have been there a sufficient amount of time, to render them UN MOVABLE. Then, you could rely on some old fences or occupation. But, you would then not have an alliquat part of Section 27. (Aliquat means that Sec. 27 was divided into it's proper pieces) Thus, you would NOT have lines that totally agreed with your written deed.

Now, for the SHORTCUT.

There ain't one.

The north and west lines of this property are SECTION lines. So, if you wander off to the east of Paesley Road, and find the Section Line.... You might be able to project it westerly to get into the vicinity of the section CORNER at the NW corner.

But this one will need a surveyor to get to the bottom of.

Like one of the guys said above, Adverse Possession can really affect you, if you use approximate lines.

Good surveys make for good neighbors.

Nate

[Jeff]

If the east line is surveyed, and there is a pin at the north east corner, and I know that the property is 660 by 1320, cant we go off of that surveyed line?

[SwampDonkey]

I am guessing, simply measuring in from the pin 660 feet on that line should give me that corner. I am also guessing that measuring 660 feet from the section corner to the north will give me the other corner, however, I dont know if the road runs parallel to the property or not, which seems if it didn't, would throw me off.

Unless that road to the south is part of the original grid, like a crown reserved road, it's Azimuth will not likely correspond with the north line. If you could find one of those lots up Peasley Road with a well marked side line, you could take a reading off it. Your deed might have the azimuth as well, but is it in reference to magnetic north or true north on the deed? It would be nice if it's True North because you wouldn't have to figure what the declination was way back when it was originally granted. Most likely it was magnetic. On another note, I wouldn't be caught dead marking an unknown line on a property I just bought when I'm the new kid in town. I'd have the licensed surveyor do his work. It's funny there isn't any evidence marked on old cedar trees on that line, it would hold up for decades.

[Jeff]

Swamp, I'm not looking to mark the line at this time for any other reason other then to have a rough idea of where my property is and is not. Actually, I'm not really the new kid. I'm the new owner of this chunk yes, but the neighbors for the most part have know me and been friends for years, I just don't know the neighbor that is behind me yet as that is not a full time residence. Corley5 and I are going to make a one day trip up there Wednesday and the neighbor across the road, Lou, who owns near a section in that township, is going to let us use his equipment and his knowledge and with what I have learned here we will try to rough in our line.

I am guessing there is no marks on the cedars as this was probably once an 80 like the one to the east, and probably split and resplit up by family without it ever being lived on.

[SwampDonkey]

One thing you could do is ribbon some saplings with winter grade ribbons as a 'management line' and you probably won't get anyone excited.

[Nate Surveyor]

Jeff, if the NE corner is in, then you should be able to take a compass on the road on the south side, and record that brg.

then, go to the north end, and use the same compas brg, and get close.

I thought later of the fact that this is a Section line. I suspect that there is an existing Section corner out there. Using the above method should get you into the vicinity, and allow you to begin a search.

If you find it, then you may be in good shape. Be carefull that you don't find and use an old goat stake, as the Section corner!

That Section corner is necessary to survey in that section. Thus, it should be in. If it is not, then it would be computed... based on a bunch of  tie line.

Let us know if you find something out there.



N

[woody1]

We just did a rough compass run on a property a friend of mine purchased. With the compass and a hip chain we were able to find all old corners and several old blazes on the lines. It is exciting to find old stone corners and blazes.

[Jeff]

Ye never know, we might find the same thing.    If nothing else, I'll get a chance to show someone the property for the first time. 

[Engineer]

This is a fascinating thread, because being in the New England states, we don't use sections at all.  I haven't the faintest idea how you'd deal with your problem, Jeff.   Totally out of my area of study or expertise.  

So I'm looking forward to learnin' something here....

[sprucebunny]

Parts ofNew Hampshire have something like sections. They are called ranges and lots. Not many 90* cornors, though. They are around 100 acres.

[Corley5]

Looking forward Wednesday 

[Gary_C]

Here is the USGS map of your location from Topozone

I have already zoomed in on your property. If you move over to the lower right, you will see the grid north readings and the current magnetic readings. There is also an explanation for the readings if you click on the What's this?

You can't assume the sides are 1320 and 660 long. However, if you have three good pins along the section lines, you can use a compass and determine the angles and then measure the two sides. Then just use those lengths to find the missing corner. You should be very close.

It does appear from that map that the grids are not always square in that area.

[Mooseherder]

And the Headlines Read:
"2 Men Find Beale Treasure Originally Thought To be Hidden In Virginia."
While searching with Metal Detector for property line pin, 2 men stumbled across a major discovery.

Can't finish story now, gotta go work.

[snowman]

We just did a rough compass run on a property a friend of mine purchased. With the compass and a hip chain we were able to find all old corners and several old blazes on the lines. It is exciting to find old stone corners and blazes.

    I recently bought some land in wash state, only 1 line was marked. I spent a couple days with a compass finding the other corners and marking the lines, I agree, it's great fun! My wifes doing an adventure race this summer, they give you bearings to places where you retrieve a card or something,1st team to get to all the spots and back again wins.She wants ME to teach her how to do this.

[thurlow]

they give you bearings to places where you retrieve a card or something,

That was called a compass course when I was at Ft. McCllelan in '67 

[Radar67]

It's called land navigation now. They still teach soldiers how to use a compass, map, and protractor, along with the new GPS systems.

Stew

[SwampDonkey]

Private lots here were run off the river fronts and base lines were 'crown reserved roads'. In my area we have 4 roads running north south west of the river toward to USA border. Lots are running on an azimuth of 250-270 E-W off these roads. When you get a big bend in the river you get what's called a 'gore lot' which is triangular in shape.

[SwampDonkey]

It's called land navigation now. They still teach soldiers how to use a compass, map, and protractor, along with the new GPS systems.

Stew

It's also called orienteering, but that's the sport aspect of it.

[submarinesailor]

Jeff,

I very strongly recommend you get a professional surveyor to lay out your property lines.  And get title insurance if you can.  I know it will cost you money, BUT!!!!!!!

14 years ago, when the wife and I brought the 76 acres down in Madison county Virginia, a lawyer friend told us to have it surveyed before closing and to get the title insurance.  IT SAVED OUR %SS.  There is a small price, about ¾ of an acre, on the other side of the river that after we closed, neighbor started trying to claim it was theirs.  Well, one day their lawyer called me about their claim, after explaining to him that we had it surveyed, who had completed the survey and we had title insurance; he/they backed way off.  Had no problems from them since than.

Bruce

[woody1]

I agree. Title insurance and deed serch. We had a piece of property in the family for 80 years. Everything was ok till we sold a small piece. The purchasers deed search showed that back when my granddad bought it from a lumber company all the owners didn't sign off. What a mess..lawyers, quit claim, surveys, $$$$. Make sure your lawyer has his ducks in a row. If you need to borrow a hip chain, let me know.

[LeeB]

I've never seen nor heard of a hip chain. Could some please expand on this a little. LeeB

[Jeff]

I do have title insurance, It was searched and is now recorded with Tammy and I as the owners with no leans in Chippewa county.  Its all ours. 

[Jeff]

Hip Chain from Bailey's

[LeeB]

OK. That's cool. Obviously you can get more line. Sounds much easyer than my old 200' tape. LeeB

[Kevin]

I've used a GPS for that purpose.
When you run the line it's better to have at least three people to stand in a line when placing the ribbon.
The the guy with the GPS moves ahead on the course, stops and looks back at the other two, lines them up by moving and places a ribbon.
Then everyone moves up to the next position.
Orange vests are handy for a visual through the trees.

[Jeff]

Yep, Jeremy is going with us to help.

[woody1]

The hip chains are fairly accurate. We were looking for a corner at 1322'. And bamm there it was 1322'.

[SwampDonkey]

Get a decent one (hip chain) and make sure you have at least three  wraps on the adom. wheel so it don't slip.  Make sure the guys behind don't walk along the same path as you do when following or your going to be 'fishing for halibut' as they get caught up and pull off extra string. Basically the compass man is in front, the hatchet man in the middle and the chain man close behind. (well dah eh?) Might seem intuitive but I've had guys who just didn't get it. Glad I got GPS that filters bad PDOP (>6 or less if you set a higher precision) and a compass. No dang hip chain. This time of year the satellite constellation isn't good at all some days or part days. You may not even notice it on the consumer units because they have no filtering, but the line will be wavy as all get out on the track log.

Laid out 25 acres of thinning on a neighboring woodlot today. Oh the feeling after walking through 6 km of slushy heavy snow. 

[Gary_C]

Laid out 25 acres of thinning on a neighboring woodlot today. Oh the feeling after walking through 6 km of slushy heavy snow.

Wow, 6 km of snow!   

How could you see what you were doing?   

[Jeff]

I didnt want to say anything about it getting that deep...

[beenthere]

Yah, dat's deeep a'right.    Jus the tallest trees poke through.........
We are only gonna hafta walk through about 6" tomorrow, if the forecast is right.....

[SwampDonkey]

Wasn't easy with gear and ribbons in your hands and softwood swat'n ya in the face and eyes.  Hate them darn spruce branches, they's armed.

[Jeff]

Well, I think we learned a few things today. Corley5, My son Jeremy and I took a road trip to our property this morning. It was DanG cold and even more DanG windy. We checked into Lou's first off and picked up his staff compass and hip chain.  Last year Tammy and I had measured down Peasley, the west line, from the pin in Caribou to the north, 660 feet to the south and had tied some marking tape in a cedar to approximate the corner. We decided to start from the opposite pin on the Northeast corner. That pin has a cap on it that has  RLS and then a number which we determined stood for Registered Land Survey. We were able to use the hip chain to run up that surveyed line to where we found a stake at 660 feet. That would be the third corner. So, with Jeremy on the Staff compass because of his young eyes, and Greg on the axe, and me loitering in the middle, we took off on a heading of about 7.5° declination off of west.  What we found on most all of that back line was what I expected. Some cedar, mostly brush, and low spots, and "low ta no" grade trees. Nothing really the length of what we "surveyed" for lack of a more appropriate word of what we were doing, that amounted to more then deer bedding areas.

Anyhow, Jeremy felt that we were veering one way, where I felt we might be veering that way too, where Greg said he had the inclination to sometimes veer the other way. Anyhow, Greg says to Jeremy "trust thy compass!"  We couldn't get a good line of site most of the time over 40 or 50 feet. So we would mark our spot and move Jeremy up, then clear anything we could as far as we could to get a new bearing.  We worked our way clear across the back of the property until Greg and I saw a glimpse of Peasley Rd ahead through thick stuff. We moved Jeremy on up and we walked out to the road and found our selves only a few feet south of the ribbon Tammy and I had tied on the year before.  Pretty dang close!

Anyhow, due to the fact that what we came out so close, I was quite happy, and Jeremy was quite shocked. He figured we were at least a hundred yards from where the corner would be, and we were right on top of it. Greg thought we came out pretty well as well. Though this did not establish and exact line, it did give us a clear idea where the back line was, and confirmed that it would be pretty much good for what I thought it would be good for, (although I'll let Ron make that final determination). Critter country!

We didnt take any photos back in the bush as we were to busy in the nasty conditions leading up to the storm that is on us now, but I did get a couple out to the road showing "the crew" 

[Corley5]

A Motley Crew if I do say so myself  ;)Trust the compass    A crusty old DNR Wildlife Tech told me that    I naturally veer left of the bearing    We did pretty DanG good today    Jeff and Tammy have a nice piece of ground and a good spot picked out to build a residence  .  Jeff has more willpower than I as I'd slick the cedar and anything else of value off it and make my money back plus 

[thecfarm]

Good job there Motley Crew.Now,don't you feel better now about that back line?Wasn't all that hard.

[Jeff]

Yep, had a hard time keeping Corley from picturing my cedar trees on a landing. 

I know we were not exact on blazing the line, but it really does give me a good idea now.   I do feel better about it. 

[Corley5]

I was gonna take the 2171 along to blaze the lines.  I even had it fueled and fresh chain on it.  It's probably a good thing I decided on the axe 

[Sprucegum]

Good job guys 

Too much of that veering results in finally admiting  "VEER LOST!"    

[SwampDonkey]

That pin has a cap on it that has  RLS and then a number which we determined stood for Registered Land Survey.

Registered Land Surveyor license # You can find out who surveyed it from that number.

Jeff and Tammy have a nice piece of ground and a good spot picked out to build a residence  .  Jeff has more willpower than I as I'd slick the cedar and anything else of value off it and make my money back plus 

Then ya got a brush pile. 

My grandfather never trusted a compass, so he would never use one. 

[Gary_C]

Yep, had a hard time keeping Corley from picturing my cedar trees on a landing. 

I know we were not exact on blazing the line, but it really does give me a good idea now.   I do feel better about it. 

That a good job done. But Corley, now you got him scared. Should have just started with a few little bity trees and then worked your way up to a good thinning.   

[Nate Surveyor]

Sounds like you managed to accomplish your plan.

It is handy to NOT listen to spacially challenged persons, when you are trying to walk in a straight line!



Nate

[Jeff]

I've been playing with Map quest a bit, and using their scale and photoshop came up with this photo. I have more powerline then I though if my geometry is close.

[Stephen Alford]

Thats got to be the prettiest hishers I have ever seen. 

[isawlogs]

  Is that the creek to the left of the red star that you where talking about 

[SwampDonkey]

Well I found ya on Streets and Maps anyhow. 

[Jeff]

  Is that the creek to the left of the red star that you where talking about 

Thats Lou's driveway.' Its about 50 or 60 feet wide from tree to tree line

What the heck is a hishers?

[Stephen Alford]

With all the discussion on what would be appropiate signage I was thinkin  of posting HIS on the North Caribou and HERS on the South Piesley .

[Jeff]

That'll work!     

[isawlogs]

 
What the heck is a hishers?

There always a good explanation on here ... Good thing, cause I'd be so lost at times 

[Furby]

Gotta ask...........
The pin in the NE corner, is it an actual corner pin, or is it a marking for the road right away?

[Jeff]

That was a matter of discussion, but by going by the properties to the east, we decided the answer was no. The road veers north, the property lines do not. There are properties on down caribou where the owners on the north side of the road, actually own small wedges of property on the south side of the road.  Lou told me that might be a matter for contention for some of those easterly south side owners one day.

[SwampDonkey]

Hey Jeff, the 1998 photo from MDNR shows some large cuts to the south, west and east of the property. Will post a snapshot in the 'Aerial Photo' thread. In the process of loading the Trout streams and lakes. Gotta find your fishing spot.  

[Rockn H]

Jeff, did you ever get the property surveyed.  If so does your property line actually cross one of the roads bordering your property.  I ask because here it is possible to have the road portion  removed from your property taxes at the accessors office, but your probably in a state that doesn't have that sort of thing anyway.

[Phorester]

And the red star is.... beer joint..., ice cream stand...?

Interestingly enough, we have a bar in our town with the name of "The Red Star".   

[SwampDonkey]

Just guessing here, but he's probably getting ready to ride the trails this Sept and maybe getting ready for another bear hunt? There is a large set of buildings to the west of there and off to the right is something that has moved some earth, like a pit. Where the star is probably was in reference to the road? Kinda wet ground for a ice cream stand, although I see a couple here built up on fill on the edge of a swamp. You never know. Why is it that gravel pits are next to wetlands? 

[Jeff]

Nope, we decided that for now, there was no need for a survey. 3 lines are known, and the 4th, is of little matter at the present time. 

[Bogie]

I plan on having a surveyor do this later this year, but the one I am in contact with in the area winters in California and may not be back until early summer.

I know where two of the steel pins are for the corners of my property. The northwest corner, and the northeast corner.  The north and west sides of the property are bordered by roads, the east line is marked by what I am told is an actual survey, although probably 7 or 8 years old, on the property to the east. It is marked with some flagged chunks of conduit and cedar saplings turned into stakes.  That leaves the property line to the south as an unknown. With this information, should I be able to get pretty close to finding and marking that back line?  Lou Kurtis across the road, says he has all the stuff for running it that I can use. I'm not sure of the equipment names, but I think its a compass on a tripod that is set to the correct declination for that area, and also some sort of line measuring device that clips to your belt.

Jeff, have you ever used Goggle earth? we have found it to be very correct for measuring from a sattelite view. you do have better resolution in some areas than others. you can take a reading from your GPS and use the cordinates to locate it on the map.

[SwampDonkey]

Jeff's Map Quest map seems to be a better quality image than the DNR aerial photo. 

[Polly]

  my new neighbor from way down south just bought 60 acres on north side of our property about 3 or4 months later he moved a section of original fence line which i know has been their at least the last 75 yearsabout 30 feet south of the original fence and then put up a sign no treaspassing  the only option i had was to hire a professional surveyor  i do not know his findings yet was i wrong  i stand to loose about one quarter of acre i think it is not amount of loss but the principal of the thing am i wrong

[Ron Scott]

Why did the new neighbor move the line?? Did they have a registered survey of their property? You did right by having your property surveyed to determine the correct ownership boundaries of record.