Author Topic: Is there a good reasonably priced small diesel engine? (Read 2946 times)

OneWithWood · « **on:** March 21, 2007, 11:27:24 am »

I have a number of honda 11hp gas engines that power the hydraulics on some of the equipment. Now that I am producing my own bio diesel I would really like to replace these engines with small diesel units. So far the only thing I have found that comes close is a German engineered, Chinese built unit know as an S110. It is a single cylinder 22hp unit that is used primarily to drive generators.
Anyone know anything about this unit?
How about other small diesels?
The honda 11s are great engines and bullet proof, just use the wrong kind of fuel.

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2007, 11:32:09 am »

Through some limited experience with John Deere, they have been using Yanmar diesels in the 22-25 hp range in their lawn tractors for 12+ years, and seem to be pretty bullet-proof. Also, have Yanmar diesels in their compact utility tractors in the 28-40 hp range.
I suspect Kubota is another small diesel mfg to consider (not green, so I wouldn't

sawguy21 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2007, 11:41:40 am »

Have you looked at the Briggs and Stratton LC diesels built by Daihatsu in Japan? They can be ordered as a stand alone power unit complete with the radiator, muffler, and lift pump. Toro, Exmark and others use them on their large zero turn mowers. They are very smooth and reliable.

OneWithWood · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:04:02 pm »

My JD670 (made in Japan) has an 18hp Yanmar. Execeelent engine but to big for the application. Think small as in lawnmower size.

I will check out the LC Diesels.

sawguy21 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:15:59 pm »

Lombardini builds small air cooled diesels found on some 6kw generators. Haatz does too but I do not know if they are still available in North America. Parts and service may be an issue for these brands.

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:24:35 pm »

Surplus Center has a 13hp (3600 rpm) Mitsubishi diesel, $1500, weighs 210 lbs, 2cyl, water cooled with radiator.

Also a 21hp (3600 rpm) Kubota, $2400, 200 lbs, 3cyl

and a single cyl 6.8hp Hatz for $1000

Surplus Center new diesels

scsmith42 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:27:41 pm »

Ditto Beenthere's comments.

I have a 10hp, one cylinder Hatz diesel on a small generator. Works fine.

Also, you may want to consider one of the small Lister Petter diesels (e-bay). I think that most of these come from India. They are old tech, but solid and reasonably priced.

Gary_C · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:01:14 pm »

There are going to be FEWER of these diesels in the US in the future because they cannot meet the new sulfur emissions standards. I think the only reason you can still but a light truck with a diesel is because they get some exemptions from the full standards. In cars, only VW has a diesel and it has had problems and was lucky to pass for this year.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:27:50 pm »

Much as I hate Chinese anything, Changfa seems to be a good engine. 10 HP, 1 cyl, air cooled.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:05:06 pm »

I'm not sure of the price, but Deutz and Mitsubishi makes diesels as small as 8 hp.

We used a Deutz diesel to run our debarker for many years, then replaced it with a bigger Deutz.

Here's a distributor that has some info. http://www.staufferdiesel.com/index.html

And another: http://www.dieselpower.com/ Illinois company.

stumpy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:59:01 pm »

Hey Beenthere, (or others)
How do these diesels compare in power? In other words, in terms of power, how would a 13HP diesel compare in a sawmill application as opposed to a 25HP gas engine?

farmerdoug · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:16:50 am »

OWW,

Here is a diesel engine for auction online today only.

diesel engine

Farmerdoug

beenthere · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:17:11 am »

Ya, now everyone knows about it.......

Woulda been good to PM'd a message to da guy interested.......(hint).

And Stumpy, I don't have an answer for your question. I've heard the subject discussed, about how hp is rated for tractors/trucks vs small engines (gas or diesel), but don't understand the differences for comparison.

scsmith42 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:50:10 pm »

Stumpy's question got me to thinking about the relationship between HP and torque. Typically diesels produce a lot of low RPM torque, which I would presume would help keep a circular blade spinning.

Can some of the sponsors chime in here re the impact of torque versus HP on band and swingmills, and if they can offer any recommended torque ranges based on blade / band size?

Thanks.

Scott

Gary_C · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2007, 09:37:02 pm »

Can't comment on blade/band size needs, but can offer some comments on power and torque. The basic formula for calculating engine HP is:

Horse Power = Torque (FT-LBS) x RPM / 33000

The problem with using HP alone is it takes 50 % less torque to rate an engine at any given HP at 3000 RPM than it takes at 2000 RPM.

In order to compare engines you really need to see the torque curve and see where the maximum torque occurs and see how flat the curve is at that point. Most engines manufacturers do not provide that information because with the new electronic controlled engines, they have the ability to "shape" the torque curve to your needs or as they call it "power matching."

In general the diesels have produced more torque at lower speeds than gas engines and responded to changing torque requirements much faster. However the new gas fuel injection systems along with electronic ignition has narrowed the gap.

What is most important in an engine rating is the speed of response to changing torque requirements. In other words, when the blade hits a knot in the wood, does the RPM hold steady or does it drop and then recover, or does it just drop and not recover. Traditionally, diesels have excelled at maintaining RPM's at varying loads.

That is why HP ratings do not tell the whole story.

JDFII · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:26:36 pm »

utterpower.com sells a couple of different brands and that seem to be pretty reasonably priced.

Also, the site operators seem pretty knowledgeable.

Don_Papenburg · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:33:16 pm »

OWW , think 430 455 595 JD garden tractors . Engines about half the size of the 650 but starting at 20 hp and going to 24 on the 595. I belive they had a 300 series diesel also it would have been in the 18hp and less side .

OneWithWood · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2007, 11:26:32 am »

Thanks for all the replies. A lot to think about.
Stumpy's question and the responses to it got me thinking. It probably is not HP that I should be concerned with but rather RPM over time. The engine would be used to turn a hydraulic pump. On the woodsplitter that is just the one cylinder and the lift table. For the log trailer the engine powers the hydraulics for the grapple loader and the stabilizing feet. Both of these pieces of equipment are currently powered by identicle 11HP Honda gas engines which is why I originally focused on HP. Now I am thinking comparable RPM, size and weight.

Jeff · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:37:32 pm »

Robert, would these work?
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=23836.0

dancan · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2007, 08:45:40 pm »

find a local refer/shipping container service company and see what they have

barbender · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2007, 03:54:59 pm »

OWW- My buddy MJ has a big single cylinder Chinese diesel, I think its in the 10-12 hp range. They seem to be tough and they run really smooth. They run really low rpms though, I think like 1500. This one is complete with hand crank start (with decompression valve) I can see where that might get old after the novelty wore off.

raycon · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2007, 09:01:51 pm »

Marine diesels. I have two single lung diesels in the 9HP rating (Volvo). The marine diesels if you get the whole setup have a often have a hefty flywheel. The smallest yanmar I have is a 13.5HP two cylinder.

olyman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:12:28 pm »

well--ill comment here--- titan diesel generators--they use their own design diesel engine--the old titans were yellow---the newer ones are green--thats the engine you want--the old were allright--i have one--its just a bear to get parts for---this engine--has a full pressure oil pump--and pressure fed rod and main---and a big ball bearing on the flywheel end--they are meant to go at least 2500 hrs before a rering!!!!!they also have a counterbalance for the crankshaft----mine is electric--or pull start---with decomp lever---- they are single cyl up to 10 hp--and they are fuel mizers---i believe the 10 is approx 560.00--and they will run on bio dsl--and even CLEAN wvo---!!!!!!

jrokusek · « **Reply #23 on:** May 02, 2007, 05:18:57 pm »

You can also check out http://www.zjig.com

Made in China and shipped to the US. I bought a 13HP Honda clone and am happy with it so far. Don't know much about them otherwise though.

Jim

treebucker · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2007, 01:10:54 pm »

Ok, I got lazy and didn't read the whole thread. But I did spot an error on figuring horsepower. Here is the explaination of the relationship between horsepower, torque and RPMs.

This is expained in more detail here: How Force, Power, Torque and Energy Work

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Author Topic: Is there a good reasonably priced small diesel engine? (Read 2946 times)