Author Topic: The Long Leaf Pine (Read 3224 times)

Tom · « **on:** June 25, 2001, 08:34:06 pm »

This isn't a "guess what it is" because I feel pretty certain that most of you, with your background, would have no trouble identifying it. This tree has always interested me.

It is the Ultimate, Southern Yellow Pine, the Long Leaf.

It is the Pine that made "Heart Pine" famous.

It is the Pine that all the loggers in the south went after for timber in the 1800's.

It is the pine that covered most of South Georgia and North Florida in the "Virgin" woods because of It's ability to resist fire.

It was the primary Pine for the collection of Naval Stores.

It is still the sought after tree when a craftsman is wanting the prettiest cabinet wood.

In this Picture/montage is represented the first 5 or 6 years of the seedling. The little 6 inch grassy 'brush' on the right is the grass stage. The tree stays in this stage for the first 3-5 years of its life. That is what makes it so fire resistant because the fires usually pass over the top of it. During this period it is generating roots. Unfortunately it is mowed as grass by people who don't recognize it as a tuft of pine needles.

The second and third pictures, to the left, are the tree as it leaves the grass stage. The tree may be over 5 years old before it looks like this.

Once the stem starts to grow it shoots straight up and keeps its limbs at the very top of the bole, aggressively pruning itself until it towers above its competitors. It is said that a Long Leaf will catch up, in height, with the faster growing Slash pine in ten years. Its girth is always slim in comparison and, though it grows tall, keeps tight grain because of it.

If you want to see a Southern Lumberman drool, put him in a forest of Long Leaf Pines.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:43:20 am »

I really like long leaf pine and took a bunch of pics of it recently.

My ode to longleaf

I'll add some more as I find them. Maybe Tom has some pics of sawn wood to add

Tom · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2006, 06:48:01 pm »

Here is sprucebunny with some of the long leaf boards we were producing in Bryceville, Fl.

This is the end of a log showing the tight grain and running sap.

Dana · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2006, 09:12:01 pm »

Tom, what did you mean "It was the primary pine for the collection of Naval Stores"?

Tom · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2006, 09:36:51 pm »

Dana,
Naval Stores is a term referencing the harvesting of Pine Sap for the making of Turpentine, Resin to pack seams (caulking), etc.

http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/history/naval_stores.htm

Tom · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2006, 10:40:28 pm »

Sawing a long leaf

Tobacco Plug · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2006, 11:29:06 pm »

Here's to the land of the longleaf pine
The summer land where the sun doth shine
Where the weak grow strong
And the strong grow great
Here's to down home
The Old North State

Official Toast of North Carolina

Pullinchips · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2006, 02:21:36 pm »

Bunny your first fic is not of a LL i beleive. LL pine has a big white terminal bud.

Tom you were correct on LL fire RESISTANCE (not proof), but the reason the fire passes over the top is the tightly grouped long needles that insulate the terminal bud from getting to hot as they burn but protect the but. If the fire stays on one for to long and coocks the bud the trees deas like any other pine. The needles just do a better job of insulating the but on the LL since it is a fire evolved species. Fire also aids in the pruning of lower linbs on a LL pine.

But yes LL is the most bueatiful of the southern pines and the sight of a "well Maintained" stand cant be beat.

That is correct on the correct sites LL can "catch" up to loblolly or slash and on very Poor sites it will out grow or compete it every time, since it evolved also in poor soils, sandy soils, and is more drought tolerant B/c during that grass stage the tree is sending its tap root down to the water table, instead of growing from the top. It has a larger tap root compared to the other SYP's.

Love the tree and will always have a special place in my heart.

-Nate

sprucebunny · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2006, 03:32:41 pm »

I was thinking that was a flower

Pullinchips · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2006, 04:01:29 pm »

The needles are not arranged tightly enough around the bud, but more important an identifying trait about the LL is the large white but which stays white though out the year. I have been around LL during all seasons and do not recall red flowers. But the needles also do not resemble LL and the fact that the bud is not white i would say that is not a LL.

-Nate

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2006, 04:15:34 pm »

The only grassy looking pine we have when it's young up here is red pine. It has 5 or 6 inch long needles, paired on short shoots.

Looks like some nice wood Tom and SB sawed up.

I like tight grained wood also. We get it in black spruce as it grows skinny for a long time, but it does not have deep roots. Fir and white spruce have twice (or more) the diameter at the same age. Mills won't pay any more for tight grained black spruce than they will for white spruce.

Tom · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:30:03 pm »

Spruce Bunny's pictures were taken too early to be able to see a white candle. We don't have any around here even yet. My passing thought, when I saw the red, was the beginning of a cluster of male cones. I didn't give it much thought since she has pictures of longleaf and I would almost wager that they are of the same plant.

The Long Leaf along my driveway will get a lot of "duff' accumulating around the growth bud this time of year. It's as if ants, spiders, or some other insect has built themselves a home of trash and stuck it tight to the sap in the bud. Some of the "collections" are quite large. I was afraid, when I first saw it, that the bud was diseased, but there seemed to be no harm done as the weather warmed and the candle developed.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:50:20 pm »

The way those red things are clustered around the stem, they remind me of male pollen flowers. Male catkins are purplish from start to finish, and red for female conelets before pollination, then turn yellow-green after pollination according to USFS. This is the time of year for flowering in Florida from what I've read.

Long Leaf Southern Yellow Pine - LINK

sprucebunny · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:44:22 pm »

Tom, I hope you will take a picture of the 'candles' when they appear this year. Thanks for the clear info, Pullinchips.

I had no particular reason to believe that tree was longleaf other than the long needles.

It's not the same plant as the other "tuft".

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:51:32 pm »

I've taken several pictures of Long Leaf Candles and will do so again this year if the opportunity arises. Here is an example.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=3729.msg49196#msg49196

Pullinchips · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2006, 09:53:00 pm »

Even thought the tree does not have the long 2-3" candle, it still will have a white terminal bud it will just be smaller and set farther down in the needles.

-Nate

DanG · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2006, 01:23:06 pm »

There is one inescapable fact that I know about those "candles" that pine trees have in the spring. If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times from the old-timers; "When the candlesticks come on the pines, the Speckled Trout will move onto the flats, and it's time to go fishing."

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2006, 01:28:14 pm »

I haven't fished for speck's in years. They used to be so thick in some streams and lakes, that all ya needed was a bare hook. And if ya started out with an artificial fly it was soon destroyed by all the trout boiling like pirahna.

DanG · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2006, 01:42:34 pm »

SD, we may, or may not, be talking about 2 different things. Down here, "Speckled Trout" is the Spotted Seatrout, a popular salt water game and food fish. I just finished off a sandwich of a speck filet....mmmmmmgood!

There! Now this thread has reached maturity. It has turned to food!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2006, 02:00:12 pm »

We have sea run speckled trout here also. On the north pole you can catch and release them. You can also catch them on other tributaries of the Mirimachi and Restigouche rivers, mostly by special resident crown reserved license. Out west the sea run I believe were steelhead (rainbow) trout. Any rainbow we have in our brooks and rivers are ones that escaped hatcheries and people's fish ponds.

Sea Run Speckies

The Cains is a tributary of the Mirimachi.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2006, 03:40:38 pm »

Maturity, Dan

Check the date of the first post. This thread is mature enough to go to school

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2006, 04:03:57 pm »

Closed

Gone Fishing

Pullinchips · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2006, 06:50:35 pm »

Dang: you beat me to it, I was thinking a spec in canadian streams and lakes cant be the same thing?

-Nate

sprucebunny · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2006, 08:56:01 pm »

Here's a couple more pics. I love the fluffiness

Pullinchips · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2006, 09:31:16 pm »

Bunny,

Those are definetly LL. Once they look like that you can't mistake them for anything else. Especially if you know you are in the Southeast

-Nate

UNCLEBUCK · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2006, 01:07:09 am »

Hey I really have a good grasp on this long leaf now , it really looks like a beautiful tree . Never seen one ,only in pictures . Thanks for the pictures

sprucebunny · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2006, 08:54:50 pm »

I really hope that some of you folks in the south will post some pictures of mature longleaf pine and maybe talk a little about how they differ from the other species

woodbowl · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:26:51 pm »

Like this SB? Today I stuck my tape measure on to the end of a southern yellow heart pine and snaped this picture.

Tom · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:43:27 pm »

Were you able to get it off?

sprucebunny · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:46:43 pm »

Sticky things

I still have sap on my jeans after washing !!!

I was hoping for pictures of standing, mature trees. I think someone told me that Longleaf has a more "random" branch pattern than slash or loblolly .

GareyD · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:49:43 pm »

This isn't a picture of a standing longleaf pine....but it took a mature tree to make it

My favorite part of the longleaf is the cone....it ain't nearly as sticky

Tom · « **Reply #31 on:** February 22, 2006, 09:52:32 pm »

That Green thing laying under it ain't part of the cone. It's a Yankee Dollar. I know! I had one one time.

Spruce Bunny,

Long Leaf is so efficiant at self pruning that it generally looks like a bunch of columns standing in the forest. The branches are a small round crown at the top and the tufts of long needles are located at the ends of the branches. This makes a tree that looks almost arificial from a distance and you can see right througn the open crown. The tufts make it look almost like a Japanese art creation and the top of the crown as well as the tops of the limbs begin to flatten as the tree ages.

Trees growing alone in an opening will sometimes develop into a "wolf" tree. It will be short trunked, heavy limbed and heavy of limb as well. It will still retain its openess but is not much good for lumber. They are best removed to open up the ground for better formed trees. Several trees of good form can be grown in the same space taken up by the "wolf".

Yes, I'm sure we can find some pictures. I'll make it a point of getting some soon.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:47:53 am »

We call them cow shades up north (a pasture grown), only they are typically open grown white spruce.

J.Hercules · « **Reply #33 on:** February 24, 2006, 05:27:56 pm »

I stopped by the farm and took these pictures this morning of a 95 year old stand of Long Leaf Pine and some of their off spring.

15 yrs old

This tree is about 35 yr old.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #34 on:** February 24, 2006, 05:40:48 pm »

J, what are the average diameters of each age group. Hard to get scale from photos sometimes. Your not standing in front of them stems.

J.Hercules · « **Reply #35 on:** February 24, 2006, 06:28:12 pm »

Since I had to stand so far from the trees I knew it would be hard to get the full perpesctive of the stand. The old trees range 18 to 30 inches DBH, the 30 yr old is about 10 inches and the saplings about 2-3 inches DBH.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2006, 07:18:30 pm »

Thanks very much for the pictures, Jim. That's a handsome stand

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2006, 07:46:23 pm »

Thanks Jim, now we have some perspective on the situation.

tonich · « **Reply #38 on:** March 08, 2007, 11:16:03 am »

Quote from: Tobacco Plug on February 17, 2006, 11:29:06 pm

Here's to the land of the longleaf pine
The summer land where the sun doth shine
Where the weak grow strong
And the strong grow great
Here's to down home
The Old North State

Official Toast of North Carolina

Very nice toast! I like it!

E.B. · « **Reply #39 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:05:15 pm »

Here in L A [ lower Alabama] they have restricted the cutting of long leaf pine execpt when you are building a house or something. To cut a LL you have to get a permit inside most of the city limits.

EB

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:03:14 am »

The thing that amazes me most about this post is, Tom made it on June 25th, 2001. There was not a single response to it for nearly 5 years!!!

Now it has three pages and growing.

News:

Author Topic: The Long Leaf Pine (Read 3224 times)