Author Topic: walnut rootball (Read 4569 times)

rathbone · « **on:** March 11, 2007, 08:53:43 am »

I am sawing for a client with my Peterson ASM and he has the rootball from a very nice walnutwe we cut, (which BTW yielded 400 bf of nearly clear 4/4). We are trying to figure out which would be the best way to saw this thing. I don't want to saw it wrong and devalue it. Anybody have any advice??

That 400 bf is on its way to the kiln this week and I think it would bring the most if we market it as a pack, all from the same log. What do you guys think?

Rathbone

Burlkraft · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:56:22 am »

Rathbone,

Got a shot of that root ball..

That will give us a better picture.....

Larry · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2007, 09:44:24 am »

Quote from: rathbone on March 11, 2007, 08:53:43 am

That 400 bf is on its way to the kiln this week and I think it would bring the most if we market it as a pack, all from the same log. What do you guys think?

I've found selling as a pack is much better. Other wise you will get stuck with the sapwood and low grade, that is near impossible to move sometimes. Plus a buyer will pick up the whole 400 bf in ten minutes...if ya sell as much as they want it will take a buyer two hours to get 50 bf.

My experience with rootballs is varied...some not worth the time and others exceptional. Not sure if there is a right or wrong way.

rathbone · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:10:16 am »

No pics of the rootball yet, we have cut the peripheral roots off and are left with a ball that, based on what I know his Wheeler Jr. will pick up, probably weighs in the neiborhood of 3000 to 3500 lbs. We are thinking we should just make it into a square with my slabbing attachment, sell it as a chunk and re-saw it if the buyer wants to, that way its their decision. We'll be saving the cut offs for the turners club. If its any good, and judging from the log that was attached to it, it probably is, there won't be much waste in it.

Rathbone

treebucker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2007, 07:31:13 pm »

Hello rathbone,

I've got a walnut stump myself but not nearly as big as yours. I think it was 26" at the butt. I've got to get (or build) something to make 10/4 flitches out of it. I've also got some other stumps to do. I've never tackled a stump before but I don't think squaring it up is the way to go. It seems it would lose too much character if you did that. After flitching, I was going to air dry it for 2 years then decide how to market it. Gun stocks, trophy mounts, small table tops, etc., were some of the ideas I was considering.

I have a picture of the tree. It was washed out of the bank of a creek. But I don't like the small picture sizes imposed here, nor do I like the superfluous steps require to post them. So imagine a whole walnut tree with the stump still attached, lying in a creek...

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:03:04 pm »

Your pics don't have ta be small. They are allowed max of 450 pixels and 35k. Done right, they post real well, as many of the pics posted atest to that. It's how we like 'em, and would like to see yours posted too.

Go to help above, and it is easy......

rathbone · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:18:23 pm »

Thx treebucker.

You will be sawing it into 10/4, will you saw it as if it were a log lying on its side? or as if it were standing straight up, cookie fashion? My first thought was to just slab it lateraly like I would a regular log but then I started "over-thinking" it and now I'm not sure what to do. Do you know how burls are sawn? I've seen some big burls for sale out west in Oregon and it looked like they were just cut in half. Maybe it would be wise to market it as is and let the buyer decide, I'd hate to mess it up.

Good idea on the air drying and I've heard you can get pretty good money from the gunstock makers.

treebucker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:43:31 pm »

Probably, if I get a saw that can do it, lay it on its side and flitch it. Cookies may be considered on some of the others. One is a black gum which has a bland profile. I think its spalted. I'll find out when I cut the log off of it. It would probably make better cookies than flitches.

I've got a huge sycamore burl to do some time. It's still on the tree. Again, I need a saw large enough to do it. I don't know if I'll q-saw it or flat saw it. I was thinking about taking it straight down the middle to see it q-sawing, or flat sawing, it would be desirable.

You and I are probably on the same knowledge level on these items. I've done extensive reading but have gotten limited advice on my posts about the above. It seems as though I'm just going to have to give it my best shot.

metalspinner · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2007, 10:40:20 pm »

Sawing it as if making boards is the best way to handle it. Also, some of the natural edges may make the pieces even more desirable.

The log and rootball in the creek is probably the best place for it. You may get a nice clean root ball to saw

That is the biggest hang up of all - the dirt.

Rathbone,
What is the size of the rootball...inquiring minds want to know.

Treebucker,
Sycamore burl? I would be interested in seeing that for sure!

WDH · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2007, 11:46:22 pm »

Does a sycamore burl have that marvelous ray fleck like the main bole does? If so, Q-sawing could produce some exceptional turning blanks.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2007, 10:03:56 am »

Be prepared for ingrown rocks in them rootballs.

rathbone · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:45:32 pm »

YIKES !!!!!!!!!!! I didn't thought of that, I guess I'll just have to take my chances

Ironwood · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2007, 09:17:14 pm »

I currently have two Walnut root balls, one pressure washed and ready to cut another just popped out today. By the time you are done you will surely be a chain sharpening fool. IF your lucky, you will only go through one chain. There will be
TONS of ingrown rock without a doubt.

Reid

dad2nine · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:41:56 am »

I cut two BW root balls late last summer. I power washed the heck out of both of them - then power washed them again. Don't get me wrong as far as wild grain turnings go they can't be beat. BUT you would need to charge an arm and a leg to make it worth your while. One slice and off comes the band for another sharpening. Creep 4 cuts if you can that way you'll only have to sharpen your band 4 times. In my mind fun to play with, yes - worth it no.

Daren · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:40:51 pm »

I have been watching this thread hoping for a picture of the wood

. I did a small sawing job for a guy, a few cedars he dropped off. I did the work for "free" cause he is the road commissioner, and the cemetery caretaker for a few old ones here close. He has brought me more that my fair share of logs, and has more coming there is a big drainage project going on this spring/summer and there will be semi loads of beauties dropped of here for free.
Back on the subject. He brought a buddy with him to visit when he picked up the wood and we all got to talking. He told me to go mark the trees on the project I wanted and said they where doing some other work, was there anything in particular I was looking for ? I rattled off the usual list (he has been burl hunting for me too) and I mentioned I would like a big walnut rootball to play with...if they ever found one, not figuring they would. His buddy piped up and said "How many do you want?" I guess the buddy is his new helper and just bought a place in the country within 300 yards of one of the old cemeteries that was walnut logged last year he said they took 100 walnuts. I guess they are going to pop a 24" stump out of the ground that is handy and bring it to me to cut open.

metalspinner · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:05:36 pm »

Daren,

Does the Rainbow end at your house?

rathbone · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:32:42 pm »

as soon as I get into that monster (about 4 feet in diameter) I'll try my hand at posting a pic.

I'm still not sure how to cut it up.

Rathbone

Daren · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:55:55 pm »

Quote from: metalspinner on March 13, 2007, 07:05:36 pm

Daren,

Does the Rainbow end at your house?

not usually, I have chased it for years. A guy just gets fortunate every once in a while. I might not have made it sound like it with the last post, but I am about due again it's been awhile. Like I said I think that road commissioner is a good luck charm. The picture under my name is a log (well part of one) he brought me 2-3 months after I got my mill....1000 bft of curly maple delivered free.

dad2nine · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2007, 12:57:50 am »

Quote from: rathbone on March 13, 2007, 07:32:42 pm

as soon as I get into that monster (about 4 feet in diameter) I'll try my hand at posting a pic.

I'm still not sure how to cut it up.

Rathbone

I can tell you how I did mine - which it probably wrong. I halved it with a chainsaw ,loaded flat side bed down, took a cut, flipped it on it's edge against the dogs took another cut. flipped again took a deep cut (pith removal) and flipped for the last cut. keep your chainsaw handy to trim off roots that interfere with the movement of the mill head. I sharpened my chainsaw once and my band 4 times (once after each cut). it's not bad to saw but the rocks kill the blades in a heart beat, even after I power washed the balls 3 times.

Rail-O-Matic · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2007, 04:21:20 am »

If you have a good root bowl, then it will have some very valuable gun stock inside it, there is no hard and fsat way of how to cut it, the best way is to look at it like a tree which is growning upside down, in that there is about the same amount of stock below the ground than is above ground.
Look at the root system and where they crotched out, and you will have some idea where to cut across for the most interesting grain patterns, its trial and error.

As many others have said, stones and the like will be there, I power washed the root off before starting, buy yourself a carbide tipped chain, this will handle quite a bit of punishment and save your best chains from destruction.

Have a look at some of these walnut beauties, www.bagpipeworks.co.uk

WDH · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2007, 07:06:37 pm »

Those are real beauties, Rail-O-Matic.

Daren · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:39:03 pm »

Well the first rootball showed up today, 24" at the butt just like he said. It's pretty big I had to drag it to where I wanted it with the skidsteer, no picking it up

.

I took a close up shot...looks very promising all wavy and curly. I have some pressure washing to do, then figure out how to saw it. If there is much curl it wont show on a cross section. They beat it up popping it from the ground so a live edge cookie is not an option anyway. I figure I will saw it lengthways and hope for the best.

rathbone · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:12:59 pm »

Thats a gnarly son of a gun. Ours is beat up too. I was thinking about how to saw it and decided to try it length ways like you are but I wonder if I should have left another foot or two of the butt atached to the stump so the slabs would be longer...next one I get, I will.

Great pics.

Rath

Ironwood · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:58:48 pm »

Daren,

I would process that thing quickly to see if you want anymore. You don't want to have to dispose of someone else's mess if it doesn't play out well, just my two cent.

Reid

WDH · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:08:59 pm »

Daren, I bet that wood will be gorgeous. I am eager to see the pics.

Daren · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:10:00 pm »

Quote from: Ironwood (Reid Crosby) on March 17, 2007, 08:58:48 pm

Daren,
I would process that thing quickly to see if you want anymore.

The stumps are in the timber, they just dug one for me to play with cause I asked. If I don't have any luck with it, they will let the rest stay right where they are. They kinda went out of their way to bring me this one, but if I did want more they would bring them as they found time. I am sure not taking someone elses mess...been there.

Burlkraft · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2007, 10:43:14 am »

Daren,

Where's your snow...

Daren · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2007, 12:38:57 pm »

Quote from: Burlkraft on March 18, 2007, 10:43:14 am

Daren,

Where's your snow...

3 months of snow is gone...now just 2 months of mud

... It was 80 degree last Monday and Tuesday (then back to 40 the rest of the week) Illinois weather is goofy.

Daren · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2007, 09:12:55 pm »

Well I FINALLY got that piggy trimmed small enough to fit my little mill (2000 lbs? of mud, rocks and some turning stock in a pile.... and 20 chainsaw sharpenings later). I had to dig a hole for it to set in level to show figure, and my mill head only raises 34". If I take off the adjustable roller guide on one side I can saw 26"wide. I have a blade full as she lays.

I hope I got the majority of the rocks with the trimming and pressure washing, that was a real drag. I hope all the work is worth it. I learned a few things, next one (of this one is decent) I will let set upside down for a year and take most of the hard work out of the deal.

Robert Long · « **Reply #29 on:** March 29, 2007, 09:49:16 pm »

Great topic!

Hope to see pics on cutting methods and finished wood!

Robert

metalspinner · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2007, 10:32:05 pm »

...talk about a cliff hanger! How can you sleep knowing that purty wood is just sittin' there?

You seem to know lot's of people in your community. Do you know the fire chief? Maybe they can hose one of those things down for you?

Daren · « **Reply #31 on:** March 29, 2007, 11:01:43 pm »

Quote from: metalspinner on March 29, 2007, 10:32:05 pm

You seem to know lot's of people in your community. Do you know the fire chief? Maybe they can hose one of those things down for you?

Good idea, 3/4 of the fire dept. and I camp/fish/hunt together. I am just across the street from the firehouse. The fire chief is a hobby woodworker/general contractor, he would do it just for fun

.
That camper in the background from the "pushing end" of my little mill is the Mayor's, he is my next door neighbor and the city tractor shed is right behind me (and I can use their stuff whenever). I live in a town of 1100, pretty homey.

metalspinner · « **Reply #32 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:21:36 am »

Daren · « **Reply #33 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:23:49 pm »

Well I got started sawing on it today, but had several rain delays. It has poured off and on all day, between toad stranglers I would go out and about the time I would get set up here it would come agian. I pulled a few 26" x 36" x 2 1/2" slabs off (I am thinking some gunstocks) . I am not very far along, but I may be a couple days getting back to it. More rain and other things I promised my time to. There is still a heck of a chunk of wood on the mill. The sapwood has heavy curl, the heart not so much on this face. I have to flip it 1/4 turn and saw some more I am maxed out for width. I think with the next flip I can saw it all out. I didn't know what to expect from any of it, but the other face should have more figure (at least the exterior show more) I may saw a good bit of this into gun stock material, the rest turning stock. If I want more stumps all I have to do is say so. I will try a smaller one next time...this one was like wrestling a bear.
I as usual got overzealous with the optimizer and blurred the pictures, there are some pretty neat colors. Once the sap darkens (may steam it) the curl will really pop. I will probably post more pictures in a few days once I get more into the heart.

Daren · « **Reply #34 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:30:22 pm »

I guess before I get too far along I should ask a question

. Is 2 1/2" even the right thickness for gunstock blanks

. I have never sawn any, but I looked up what was for sale and that seemed pretty common. Anyone have any experience with them?

Robert Long · « **Reply #35 on:** March 30, 2007, 06:40:49 pm »

Daren

Nice looking walnut!....thanks for the pictures, they are prize pieces of wood, hope you do well with the rest of the stump.

Robert

ps did you run into rocks and how was the blade after cutting?

WDH · « **Reply #36 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:56:18 pm »

Daren,

That is some real fine wood. Actually, it looks better than I thought it wood (pardon the pun). I can imagine what a table top would look like from that wood.

blaze83 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:32:42 pm »

That is some very cool looking wood, good job Daren and keep the pictures coming. can't wait to see what the rest of the stump will look like cut up. are you going to cut all of it at 10/4 or are you going to cut some 4/4 or 6/4 also. I think that would make some beautiful raised panel dooors and drawer faces

Blaze

metalspinner · « **Reply #38 on:** March 30, 2007, 08:37:53 pm »

Another color in the Daren rainbow.

smiley_rainbow_colors smiley_rainbow_colors

limbrat · « **Reply #39 on:** March 30, 2007, 09:11:30 pm »

My cz550 with cheek piece is just under 3" everything else is under 2.25". Rimfires and only shot gun are under 2".

WDH · « **Reply #40 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:12:11 pm »

Raised panel doors and drawer faces..Yeh

.

Daren · « **Reply #41 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:24:19 pm »

Quote from: Robert Long on March 30, 2007, 06:40:49 pm

Daren
ps did you run into rocks and how was the blade after cutting?

I bumped a few. You can see in the last picture if you look close I have a tooth or 2 pretty bad out of set, but I was still cutting good just leaving a scratch mark on the face. For some reason when I first started I was having gum problems on the blade and it was diving (rising hard actually ). The blade was sharp, just balling up with wood on the teeth. I guess it was because I am cutting with the grain, cross grain and everything in between. I cranked the tension down to the max and put some dish soap and water in the lube tank and really poured it on sawing, it fixed that problem.
I expect to hit a few rocks, but they should be on the leaving end not buried. I saw mostly yard trees...so as much as it makes me frustrated I am used to changing blades prematurely, I am like an Indy pit crew with as much practice as I get.

I may cut some thinner stock (?), but I have to saw on it some more. If I am changing blades every 4-5 cuts...4/4 just won't work. 10/4 is a safer bet first go around. This all an experiment to me. I think I have a market for the thicker stuff already, I have plenty of 4/4 figured stock to sell.

Robert Long · « **Reply #42 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:32:45 pm »

Daren:

sounds like you've got it down to a science already, I am looking forward to my first root to mill and thanks to work already done my pros like you it will make my first one a "slice" so to speak

Robert

WH_Conley · « **Reply #43 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:35:42 pm »

Hey, let me know how all this works out. I have about 15 stumps that need to come out this spring.

( we could work out a deal).

dad2nine · « **Reply #44 on:** April 01, 2007, 12:12:31 am »

As far a wild grain goes it doesn't get much better than root balls - but man what a pain in the A55 to cut.

mburrow · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2007, 12:59:29 am »

has anyone cut a white oak root ball I have this one, tree is still atached

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Author Topic: walnut rootball (Read 4569 times)