Shelterwood

[SwampDonkey]

Wolves boys, ya need wolves. 

[stonebroke]

There is not a deer problem around here unless you call 4-in-the-freezer a problem. Seriously though, say more about the deer management assistance program. What does it do beside just put more of them in the freezer?

WDH
Dmaps ( Deer management assistance program) is a program based on a law that NY Farm Bureau got passed in 1999. Basically it enables DEC ( Dept. of Environmental Conservation) to give out extra Doe permits to farmers and other landowners for hunters to use during the regular  deer seasons. This was done to cut down on the number of nuisance permits given out during the summer. The landowners and the hunters both dislike using nuisance permits. This was supposed to be a win win situation. The hunters get to take more deer during the regular seasons and the landowners get rid of excess deer. Farmers can get as many permits as wanted and landowners get one per fifty acres. You have to prove damage, which is generally no problem. Also you can get permits if you want to get trophy deer. The problem  is that the local DEC regions have a lot of power and will lie to your face about this program. They feel they are beholden to the hunters ( that's where they get all there money) and to h#@ % with everyone else. I actually feel sorry for the state foresters because the wildlife division is ruining a lot of the forests( state and private) The browse line is all over and regeneration is very poor. If this continues the forests of NY will be beech and hemlock because these are the only things that will regenerate. Pretty pitiful. Our local DEC region throws every roadblock they can in the way of using DMAPS. When the hunters say jump DEC says how high. The hunters want to go out on their back porch and shoot a deer. Unfortunately That many deer excede the carrying capacity of the range and then we end up with alot of starving deer. That is were the wolves come in, Swampdonkey, WE have lots of wolves. They are the red wolves not the bigger gray wolves. They serve a very good purpose. There are no unhealthly deer around, Nocripples, no sick  no wounded. Also there are no dogs running wild. I have ranted to long .

Stonebroke

[ID4ster]

You've got it right in your next post. The DEC is trying to "rebuild" the deer herds after the bad winters in 2003 and 2004. Apparently too many "hunters" can't see enough deer to shoot at when they are driving around in their pickups or on their 4-wheelers and so they said that the number of doe permits and nuisance permits needed to be cut way back. The NY DEC in one of the biggests tank jobs in the US said ok. No matter that the deer numbers in my area are around 27 per square mile the DEC says that we need more. One of my fellow landowners feels the same way about deer that we do and that is that there are way too many. One guy in our area set up trail cams and said positively that there were only 4 does in a 200 acre block. When he saw that my brother had killed a doe he was disappointed to say the least. After telling my brother about the 4 does my brother had to tell him about the 16 deer that he'd seen on opening day and that this doe was one of 8 that he'd seen that morning in 90 minutes on our property on the second weekend of the season. Needless to say the guy was flabbergasted but these are the ones talking to the DEC about the lack of deer. We don't even have to try to see deer on our place they show up all the time but since you have to get off the road to do it they don't count in most "hunters" minds. The DEC doesn't give a darn about the habitat for deer. They'll let it be eaten to nothing if it'll keep hunters happy. Our problem is that we simply can't kill enough deer in and around our property and we don't qualify for a nusiance permit. Meanwhile all our efforts to regenerate some red and white oak, hard maple, black cherry and chestnut are going for naught. If I had the money I'd kill enough deer to get noticed and then when I was hauled into court I'd put the NY DEC's deer management program on trial and find out gives them the right to force private timber owners to sacrifice their forests for the DEC's benefit. The same problem exists in PA where biologist Gary Alt was practically strung up for telling the hunters there that they needed to drastically reduce the herd size. He's gone and PA is well on its way to ruining their forests and eventually crashing the deer herd in a big way. We've got wolves here in Idaho and they are a pain. I'd gladly ship them to NY to kill deer and maybe bite those DEC folks in the butt if that would make them get out of their offices and into the field and truely look at the deer population rather than listening to a bunch of ATV deer hunters. You can't have the deer without the forest but the DEC deer management folks don't see it that way at all.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, ever since the 3 wheeler came out a lot of people do less hunting on foot. My grandfather hunted deer and grouse on foot. If a bird crossed the road, he let his bird dogs out to flush him up into trees. If it didn't have sense to leave the road he usually shot it there. We are talking forest roads, not highways. The last deer the old man shot was when he was 76 years old and we had to drag that 10 pointer across 2 beaver ponds. He got into a herd of them in a softwood stand and said this one was the unlucky one. This was 1984. The population of deer have gone down hill since in that area and in northern NB. All the older mature softwoods have been cut or blew down eliminating most deer wintering habitat. There are deer wintering management areas, but wood was harvested in them. So, pretty much useless except in southern zones. On those fresh softwood choppings the deer where as thick as robins. The lake shores were all tramped with deer trails, made it nice for fishing.