You're not a logger until you ---

[Gary_C]

Greendive

Oh yes, I know that feeling. But there is also an old Yiddish expression that says "We grow too soon old and too late smart."   

[Greenedive]

"We grow too soon old and too late smart."   

Sadly true, Gary.....but to grow old without doing that which stirs the blood...that is sadder yet.
My mind says you are right...my heart says I am too.

[Gary_C]

In a few years, your whole body is going to know I'm right. 

[twobears]

 BOY!!it,s getting deep in here.but,there true words being spoken.i,am 40 years old and i look atleast 60..i feel like i,am atleast 100 most of the time.but,it,s ok because i have no regrets and i,ve lived life enough to feel i really understand it.i just wish i could be 16 years old again and know what i know now

 delbert

[Greenedive]

In a few years, your whole body is going to know I'm right.

  Good one, Gary!!
Sure I have more aches and pains when I crawl out of bed on a cold morning than I did when I started 30 years ago...but....looking at guys around me who have been in an office or in a factory for 30 years...I feel pretty darn good!

Looking back over my life...I have some regrets and can think of some things I wish I had done differently....but my choice of occupation isn't one of them. My job suits my temperment....I don't have a boss breathing down my neck every minute (though I think when you take pride in your work, you are more demanding than any boss could be), but my job has been good to me. I work fairly hard, but the money has been good. Being self employed, if I need to take time off, I have no one to ask. If I need more money, I can work more hours. By working alone I can set my own hours and work my own pace. I'm one of those guys, who if I worked in an office or sat in the cab of a machine would probably weigh 400 pounds...I don't have to worry about that in my work. And...on a day like today when it's pouring down rain...I can work on equipment or run for parts...or do whatever loggers do on a rainy day off.

I have never been bored......

[Gary_C]

I am not advocating a change in occupation. My point is to spend some money, even borrow some to make your workplace more safe before one of these events catches up to you. Then you will be a Master Logger.

[Greenedive]

Hey...I wouldn't mind trying out one of those $100.000 chain saws...they look like they could be a lot of fun to run....but I'm just not quite ready to give up what I do now. I enjoy it too much. 

Gary,
I respect what you are trying to get across, and though I might not totally agree with you (I believe there will always be a place for a man on the ground with a saw), I appreciate your concern for safety. Don't get the idea I am trying to denigrate the hard work people do running those big machines...and some day I may chose that route...but right now I am perfectly content with my 660 and my Timberjack. I will say though...that IP tried a couple feller-buncher crews here some years back...and they were NOT happy...I talked to the head forester in the local office and he said it looked like a plowed field when the job was done, all the cherry regeneration was destroyed...not a good thing for this area. I don't remember what brand FB it was or what time of year...but I do know that after those 1st couple jobs they went back to chainsaws and skidders.

[Ed_K]

 Gary C, my problem with Master logger Cert. is $$$ I don't see how a person running a saw and skidder or a CTL operator can afford it. And I see that GOL is now $150. per level,that really shocked  me.When I did all 4 levels it was $250. now your looking at $600. how can I recommend a person to do the GOL with a price like that.
Equipment is definately lower priced now.

[Tom]

That's the deal with education.  When educators see that you will pay, they begin to look at what the market will bear, not what it costs to present the information.  Then, if they can make their course "required by law" they are in the driver's seat and the tail begins to wag the dog.

It is the same of all industry self-policing.  You can look at the required grading rules of most building and zoning departments to see that the "big boys" of industry have manipulated themselves into a position of control.

[Gary_C]

We have used the term "Master Logger" rather loosely in this thread. Here in Minnesota they recently started offering applications for certifications of "Master Logger" and I tossed them in the round file. Not only because of the $350 application fee, but I do not presently see a need for this certification in my work. Plus it was just a little irritating that they promoted this certification process as being approved by Time, Inc. Time is also one of the major players that is forcing the forest certification thru their enormous paper purchasing power. I think it is sad when blackmail and not consumer demand can force certifications of both woodlands and loggers.

So for the present, I have chosen to not participate, at least right now. 

In Minnesota, we have what I consider to be very good training. Every year we take a one day free Logsafe class that includes the chainsaw safety, first aid and CPR, and general workplace safety training. It is run by the MN Dept of Labor and Industry, the Work Comp people, and when you take this every year you are eligible for the Targeted Industry Rebate program and you are eligible for safety grants of up to $10,000 in matching funds for projects that improve your workplace safety.

The other training program is the Minnesota Logger Education Program where we do have to pay membership fees of at least $150 per year and attend at least one day of free training on a variety of subjects. This membership is required to sell pulp to most mills in both MN and Wisconsin. They just released this years training programs and you can read about that program here: MLEP

This years subject list includes the following one day classes:
Timber crusing for loggers
Federal taxation issues for loggers
Dirt, trees, and timber sales
Silviculture
Timber sale design cross training (loggers get to tell foresters how to mark trees so the sale can actually be cut without so much damage. There has been much discussion about this subject as some foresters do not understand how to mark trees with the operator in mind. On some jobs they have had to abandon the marks and let the operators select the trees to be cut. Another problem is placing the marks on just random sides of the trees so the operator cannot make just one pass thru and see all the marks)
Forest roads & skid trail construction & maintenance
Accessing aerial photos, topo maps, and other planning tools
Hardwood training
Intro and Intermediate GPS
Skilled driver training
Business management & computer workshops
Truck weight compliance training
One on one business assistance
Invasive plants of Minnesota's forests

An impressive list and I will probably sign up for more than the required one. 

[semologger]

can cut a straighter line on plywood with a chainsaw than a skillsaw.

VERY TRUE

[thecfarm]

Forget to take pictures of some big or nice looking trees that you have cut down.