Nice Tree

[Greenedive]

Cut this Nice Black Cherry tree last winter.....The 30' butt went to Germany for $8,500.



Want to thank JeffB for editing and condensing the video clip to a managable size and for adding the title page!

[Tom]

Never having sold overseas, I wonder, How did you find a market that produced that kind of money?

[Greenedive]

The company I am subcontracting for now has veneer buyers wanting those cherry all the time....the German buyers pay the biggest bucks.....seems like every big mill in the area has it's own set of veneer buyers. There are different sets of buyers for the Red Oak and Hard Maple. They say the Black Cherry in this area of north-central PA is the highest quality in the world...I do know those buyers seem to have a nose for the good stuff. 

[Tom]

Well, make all of those contacts you can and don't lose them.  You may never get another chance to learn a market like you have now. 


I envy you.

[Greenedive]

When International Paper sold out up here, their log buyer began buying and reselling veneer on his own (he had all the contacts from working at IP) and within a few years he was a very rich man.

[Ron Wenrich]

Sounds like the guy up in Coudersport, PA.  I can't remember his name, but I bought some logs off of him a good number of years ago.  Good guy to do business with.

[Nate Surveyor]

Is it just me?

Or does his chainsaw idle like a diesel?




N

[Ron Scott]

Yes, Pa. is where the quality black cherry is. When I worked on the Allegheny National Forest during the mid 1970's, many of our timber sales sold for over a million $$$ on the stump because of the black cherry.

That "little forest" brought a lot of $$$ to the National treasury over the years. That is until the environmentalists stopped most of the timber mamagemet activities on National Forest system lands. 

[Greenedive]

Sounds like the guy up in Coudersport, PA. I can't remember his name, but I bought some logs off of him a good number of years ago. Good guy to do business with.

Yup Ron,
That's the guy. Paul Buchsen...heck of a good guy...and a great businessman. I cut several jobs for him after IP sold out. He always treated me right. A couple summers in high school I painted boundary line for what was then Hammermill Paper Co (later sold out to IP) and Paul had a sign on his desk that said 'THINK'. He surely took that to heart.

[Greenedive]

Yes, Pa. is where the quality black cherry is. When I worked on the Allegheny National Forest during the mid 1970's, many of our timber sales sold for over a million $$$ on the stump because of the black cherry.

Ron,
Did you know the Forester Keith Horn when you worked back here? He is from Kane. He is the managing Forester on the property where this log came from. He has been managing this 15,000 acre chunk of private ground for about 10 years now. That plot I harvested last winter was the final cut on a section they had fenced several years before...beautiful regeneration on the cherry. Keith is in his early seventies and still in the office or out in the field every day. The landowner surely has a gold mine.

[Ron Scott]

Keith was or is still a consulting forester from Kane I believe. We may have met some as members of the Sociey of American Foresters in PA. and we had the experimental forest at Kane.

[Ron Wenrich]

I knew Keith when I was with the ACF (Association of Consulting Foresters).  I have always heard good stuff about Keith.  I also know Cliff Carts.  He was on the Board of Directors of the PA Forestry Assn. with me many moons ago.

How close are you to Roulette?  I went to a party there a couple of years ago.  I don't know if I'll ever be the same.   

[Phorester]

GREENDIVE, what was the small and large end diameters on that  30' log?

Good Lord, 95% of our cherry here doesn't even grow to be 30' tall, let alone produce a 30' log.

[Greenedive]

I knew Keith when I was with the ACF (Association of Consulting Foresters). I have always heard good stuff about Keith. I also know Cliff Carts. He was on the Board of Directors of the PA Forestry Assn. with me many moons ago.
How close are you to Roulette? I went to a party there a couple of years ago. I don't know if I'll ever be the same.

  Roulette, huh?  I was born and raised about 3 miles from there and besides college, lived within 6 miles of there till about 4 years ago. A party is Roulette can be an event, for sure....

I've subcontracted for Keith the last two years and you couldn't ask for a better person to work with. He made a reputation while he was still young for doing quality work and many of the biggest landowners in this area have him manage their timberlands.

Cliff Carts and his wife were very close friends of my grandparents. Cliff was a very astute player in the game and if he was managing your timberland, you knew you were in good hands. His son, Jeff has since taken over the business.

[Greenedive]

GREENDIVE, what was the small and large end diameters on that 30' log?
Good Lord, 95% of our cherry here doesn't even grow to be 30' tall, let alone produce a 30' log.

Hey Phorester,
Seems like the top end of that one was just over 30" at 30'. I think there was three 10' logs above the butt and one smaller 12' in the one limb. Can't remember what the butt measurement was. There were several bigger trees that came down on that job, but that was my shortest video clip.  My son, who was waiting on the results of his bar exam was skidding for me on that job and took the videos. He took vids on the biggest one on the job, but the video was way too long and I didn't know how to crop it. JeffB sent me a program to do that, so maybe someday I can post that one. It was taken from closer and really shows the size better. That one was pushing 60" across the butt, but only had a 24' veneer in it. Some of the nicest timber I have ever cut.

[SwampDonkey]

They say the Black Cherry in this area of north-central PA is the highest quality in the world.

Yup, I've even been told that way up here above the Tundra line.

GREENDIVE, what was the small and large end diameters on that  30' log?

Good Lord, 95% of our cherry here doesn't even grow to be 30' tall, let alone produce a 30' log.

Most of ours are the same and full of black knot. But, I did see a few nice ones up by Mountain Lake in Virginia around 20 inches at breast. Biggest one I cut here was 22 inches on the but with 1 cm per year growth in an orchard. My brother has a couple large ones in his yard, they are pretty mangy looking with black knot but good sized trees for here. He doesn't know much about trees, to him they are just trees.  

[Greenedive]

Say SD,
Black Knot in cherry can be turned producing some fabulous grain and beautiful green and pink coloration if it's big enough...
But....shhhh...don't tell TF

All the cherry in north-central PA isn't high quality, there are areas of red rot and usually where you find black knot the quality is poor. But there is a belt.....

[Jeff]

whoo doggy!  I'd love to be the one opening that baby up. 

[Corley5]

WOW!!  Them's NICE logs   I'd like to be the guy getting the check for them

[Norm]

I don't think I've drooled this much over a picture since I got my new SI calender. 

[Nate Surveyor]

I just may display my ignorance...

My neighbor just knocked down a real nice 12" Cherry. I want to get it before it becomes firewood.

What does it mean "Vernier Grade"?

How do I tell?

I want to get it. Now is (maybe) a time that a band saw comes in handy... when a few extra boards really counts. I dunno.

Anyway, how should I mill it?

That small is a little hard to quarter saw.

N

[SwampDonkey]

I think the consensus on here would be to flat saw cherry to see the grain.

I was wondering after I read that a piece of limb wood was used as a sawlog. That would be very unstable wood as it dried. I have some, it's in the firewood pile.

[beenthere]

Nate
It's 'veneer' grade, and here is a link to a pub that gives some good info on it.

Veneer log grade info

[Ron Wenrich]

I remember a few years back where the cherry in that area went for $3.25/bf on the stump.  Every sawlog was produced at a loss.  The veneer on that job was just extreme to carry all those other logs.

It was on state land in Potter County.

[Greenedive]

What does it mean "Vernier Grade"?

In a nutshell, Nate,
Veneer grade is without visible defect or when the market is hot...very little defect. In other words...a perfect log. In Black Cherry that means...no cat faces, no gum (or very little), no shake. rot, split or other blemish.

I was wondering after I read that a piece of limb wood was used as a sawlog. That would be very unstable wood as it dried. I have some, it's in the firewood pile.

Hmmmm Swamp Donkey...
When I mentioned taking a log out of a limb...what I am referring to is not some gnarly, twisted branch....but a piece at least 10" on the small end and straight for at least 8'. By limb I meant anything that was above the primary crotch. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[bitternut]

You must be referring to Denton State Park Ron. I shot archery there a couple times and I remember seeing some awesome cherry trees there. We ate at a great restaurant in Potato City but I don't remember what the name of it was.

My woods is not too far away over in NY.

[Greenedive]

You must be referring to Denton State Park Ron. I shot archery there a couple times and I remember seeing some awesome cherry trees there. We ate at a great restaurant in Potato City but I don't remember what the name of it was.

That is the "Potato City Motor Lodge', Bitternut. The State Lands around Denton Hill do have some of the best Cherry in the area.

[bitternut]

Yep, that was the name of the place. There was a bunch of us guys from work went there and camped out in a tent for the week-end that they had the big archery doin's. Things were great until a couple of motor homes pulled in next to us and they fired up their generators. They ran them darn things all night.

Allegany State Park in NY has a lot of beautiful cherry also. Sure is nice to see trees like that.

[Nate Surveyor]

Thanks all.

Is Veneer usually cut out with a knife, like unrolling it? Or is it sawn?

Thanks,

N

[Jeff]

Sliced or peeled. No sawdust.

[Tom]

It is rotary cut with a shear on a big lathe.
It is cut longitudinally with both shears and saws.

Most construction plywood is rotary cut with a shear.
depending on the grain effect wanted, decorative veneers may be cut either way.

[turningfool]

greendive..cherry? bring it on..no sweeter smelling wood than cherry when its being turnedand whats with the "dont let turningfool know"stuff anyway

[turningfool]

anyone out there with any you tube or other video links on the veneer process from a whole log? always wanted to see that in action

[Greenedive]

greendive..cherry? bring it on..no sweeter smelling wood than cherry when its being turnedand whats with the "dont let turningfool know"stuff anyway

    Busted!!

You ever turn any Black Knot, Tom?

[SwampDonkey]

Can't get anything past Tom, he's like a blood hound after 'free' turning stock.

[turningfool]

have never turned black knot and it doesnt always have to be free sd..and..now that kevins is packaged and ready to ship its time i started on your little project