Author Topic: Complex leaf (Read 2492 times)

Jeff · « **on:** June 20, 2001, 03:27:29 pm »

Any Ideas?

This tree is about 20 feet tall. If I ever get the digital to work I will take a picture of the bark. So far I do not know what it is.

Roger_T · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2001, 04:01:37 pm »

Jeff,

Did you notice any dried fruit or berries on the branches?? Somehow reminds me of a Mountain Ash that my folks had when i was a kid, had bright orange or red berries and wasn't over 20' tall.

Roger

Jeff · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2001, 04:51:02 pm »

Here is a leaf from a mountain ash that I planted 3 years ago and our suspect tree to the right. Very different when you put them side to side. The bark is smooth, dark colored with short horizontal lines and spots, almost like a young cherry.

Tom · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2001, 08:35:55 pm »

Jeff,

I am having trouble finding anything so far on a Bi-penately compound palmate leaf. Do you have any other thing that may help. Are the numbers of primary leaflets in the picture accurate?

Is the trunk woody or herbacious?

Have you seen the flowers? What do they look like?

Is it a volunteer (natural or otherwise) or did you bring it in from somewhere else?

You and swampwhiteoak have doozies this time.

swampwhiteoak · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2001, 06:51:25 am »

Is this a wild tree or a yard tree? Does it have thorns?

Leaf makes me think of honeylocust, but if it was a wild tree I think you would have mentioned 12inch long thorns. On the other hand the "horticultural" version doesn't have thorns.

Don P · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2001, 11:16:09 am »

Has anyone got a pic of Kentucky Coffee tree? Just a wild stab.

Jeff · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2001, 01:48:55 pm »

It is a yard tree, but it seems to be a volunteer. It grows right next to the house, but I did not plant it that I can recall.

I tried to figure this out before and came up with a locust but no exact match. My Mother-in-law calls it a sweet pea tree. But, I think she my be thinking of the locust that has the seed pods that look like string beans.

Here is finally the bark:

Ron Scott · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2001, 05:09:22 pm »

Jeff,
Are those some thorns I see on the twig? It has to be Honeylocust.

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2001, 09:41:28 pm »

Ron I thought it was Locust too but aren't locust leaves opposed? These look like they come from the same node and are almost palmate. That is confusing, a bi-pinnately compound palmate leaf?

I saw Chinaberry today and thought of Jeff's tree.

swampwhiteoak · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2001, 04:05:48 pm »

Honeylocust leaves are alternate. The leaflets are opposite. Honeylocust is generally just compound but usually has some bi-pinnately compound leaves.
Wild honeylocust will have very large thorns with several points. The horticultural version doesn't have the thorns, but it tries. Leaves will often sprout from the trunk in the same place that a "wild" tree's thorns would be.

Tom, what you're seeing is compound leaves with very close bases.

Coffeetree would have very large leaves, all bi-pinnately compound.

CHARLIE · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2001, 05:47:37 pm »

I don't know trees like you guys, but it sure looks like Honey Locust to me. I thought that immediately when I saw the picture. I've got to drive arond and find one now and take a look.

Jeff · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2001, 05:56:00 pm »

I just did a closer inspection. I could not see any thorns, or anything that looked remotely like a thorn. No stubs, or anything of that nature.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2001, 07:04:48 pm »

The Thornless Honeylocust is a commonly planted city tree. Are there others similar in the near area?

Jeff · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2001, 08:11:44 pm »

Nope, no others, but that don't mean my mom or mother-in-law, or wife did not sneak it in there 10 or 15 years ago. I know I didn't and nobody else can remember.

Ron, should we consider this thread solved?

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2001, 08:19:30 pm »

Jeff,

I'm not in a good place to guess at the ID but I've not heard anything yet that indicates that anybody is really sure. Why don't you find a Honey Locust and see if it looks like what you have?

Jeff · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2001, 08:54:20 pm »

I have been looking on the web at thornless Honey locust, they show a tree that flowers. This one does not. (Male female species??)

Tom · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2001, 09:18:04 pm »

Yeah, or it might have to do with age.

CHARLIE · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2001, 11:40:34 am »

I firmly believe that what you have is a young Honeylocust...and here's why.
------------------------------------------------
KNOWING YOUR TREES - A publication of The American Forestry Association by C.H. Collingwood and Warren D. Brush and revised and edited by Devereux Butcher.

A couple of excerpts from Honeylocust (Gleditsia triacanthox Linnaeus on pages 308 & 309.

"Ordinarily some seventy-five feet high with trunk diameters of two or three feet, the maximum height is about 140 feet with occasional trunks six feet in diameter."

"On young trunks and branches the bark is smooth and grayish-brown, while on mature trunks it is a quarter of an inch to three-quarters of an inch thick, divided into narrow ridges by deep, longitudinal fissures. It as a tendency to peel off in strips, and is grayish brown to nearly black. Relatively large, light colored lenticels are noticable on the smoother areas. The trunk, branches and even the zigzag branchlets often bristle with long, slender, forked thorns. A variety, 'inermis', has no thorns."
-------------------------------------------------

In conclusion Jeff, you said your tree was 20' tall. Since a Honeylocust can attain mature heights exceeding 75', I figure you have a young tree which would still have smooth bark. I suggest waiting another 20 years and then checking the bark. I bet you would see some thorns.

One thing I did learn from this that I thought was interesting....The Honeylocust tree belongs to Leguminosae or pea family. Botanists classify it with Kentucky coffeetree and redbud rather than with the black locust, Robinia pseudoacacia. The Honeylocust have thick, fibrous roots that are deep and wide-spreading, but unlike most other legumes they are without nitrogen-fixing nodules and do not add this element to the soil.

Jeff · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2001, 11:45:07 am »

I am afraid this trees days are numbered, it grows within a foot of my house. She'll be big problems before another 20 years are up.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2001, 01:37:44 pm »

Jeff,
I guess you will need to get your Urban Forester out there to solve it. Let us know what it is??

We need to get an Urban Forester on here anyway.

Don P · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2001, 04:30:48 pm »

I'd have to agree with Charlie. Went to the bldg supply today and parked under a shade tree for the dog...looked up and there was this tree. Around the lot were 10 more. Same bark,and leaf.

CHARLIE · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2001, 09:13:28 pm »

Jeff, My sweetwife and I went to Whitewater State Park yesterday and there were many, many Honey Locust (At least that's what I think they are). Some were as tall as 40 to 50 feet and I couldn't find a thorn anywhere on them. I'm thinking the "thornless" variety must grow in this area. I tried to count the leaves on each stem and came up with from 14 to 18, but I notice your example has over 20 leaves. I wonder if the younger trees have more leaves.

Charlie

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2007, 10:43:20 am »

When I was in NYC a number of years ago, I saw many of them growing very close to buildings in the city streets. They looked like they went wild because they were almost climbing up the sides of buildings coming out of the ground where there was any available bare soil.

As I type this I am reminded of the movie "Logan's Run", where the cities were abandoned and over grown.

Brian Beauchamp · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2007, 01:07:36 am »

Looks like either a honeylocust or a mimosa to me.

WDH · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2007, 01:22:52 pm »

I vote for honeylocust.

Honey, I locusted the kids

.

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Author Topic: Complex leaf (Read 2492 times)