Building a planer sled...

[Paschale]

...to use my planer as a jointer.  That's the project...

I've got some boards that are much wider than my jointer, so I'm thinking of spending the day in the shop tomorrow building a planer sled.  I've seen some plans here and there, some with some fancy pants adjustable shims built in to fully support the board to keep it from rocking, and then some that just use screws spread about the board that you adjust.

Have any of you guys made one before?  Any ideas on methods that would work well to secure the board so the planer cuts a perfectly flat surface?

And don't just tell me to buy a bigger jointer.   

[SwampDonkey]

I think you mean "to use my jointer as a planer. 

Are you going to run the sled without the jointer fence? I'de just buy a 12 or 14" planer.

I have a 6" wide jointer, but rarely use any piece thicker than 2".

[ohsoloco]

Nah, he got it right, SD.  He wants to use the planer to make one face perfectly flat before planing the other side    To do this the board needs to be shimmed or somehow held solid so the warped part on the bottom doesn't affect the flattening of the top. 

I'd like to hear some ideas too.  I've often thought about trying this...I have an 8" jointer and a 15" planer.  Sometimes I can get away with taking the fence off and flipping a board end for end to get it all, but it doesn't always work 

Now if I just had a planer for those 16"+ boards I've cut on the sawmill 

[metalspinner]

I think a flat piece of MDF with your crooked board secured on it is what your talking about?

The biggest thing you need to watch out for are any loose shims going through the planer.Just make sure that you use plenty of shims along the lenghth of the board so your rollers don't press down  along the way.

After a few of times setting this up, you may find yourself thumbing through the catalogues looking for a wider jointer.

I often use my router to joint the face of wide boards.  A long subbase is attatched to the router and it rides on rails running the lenghth of the board.  The rails are in the same parellel plane, so the cut is in that plane. In fact, I have a dedicated router set up just for this task.  This has been discussed several times on the forum I believe.  It is a really quick way to joint the wide boards and takes little physical effort because you are handling the router not the heavy wide board. It really pays off when you are jointing wide and long 8/4 stuff.

[SwampDonkey]

I just make multiple shallow passes, she eventually flattens out. Then used the jointer to square up the edge.   Your lives are too complicated.  If the board is wider than the planer, then she gets ripped in two or maybe one edge is natural with bark, that needs removing anyway. I like boards 6-10" wide.

[Furby]

Who's gonna go check Donk's lumber eh

[Paschale]

Yup, I'm thinking of mdf.  I saw a slick planer sled demo online at FineWoodworking, and it was as easy as could be, and really lickity-split.  I'm kicking myself, because I'm not sure if I can find the issue that has the plans in it, which is why I'm asking the question. 

I'll do another dig, and see if I can maybe scan some photos of the thing.

[SwampDonkey]

Been posting pictures of the lumber, ya ain't pay'n attention.

[Paschale]

This will at least give you an idea, but you have to be a member of Finewoodworking.com to see it in its entirety. 

Link

[Furby]

Sure I have Donk, ya got this HUGE pile of shavings and this little ity bitty pile of lumber.
Claimed it took ya 3 hours to do it too.

Actually I'm with Paschale on this and watching to see how well he can get it to work as I have had the same problem.

[metalspinner]

Here is a pick of the set up...





A look under the hood...



My favorate part of doing it this way is that it only takes one pass on each side.  The router can hog off up to 1/4"in one pass.  I joint one face, then flip the board and plane it close to thickness with the router.  Then send it through the planer to final thicknessing.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, it had to be planed down to 7/8" because some lumber was barely an inch and a one sided planer is not very fast. Can't make a 1" planed board from a 1" rough board. Plus a lot of time was searching and sorting and bucking. I don't see what the sled is going to accomplish, in my case it wouldn't save on shavings, I'm dealing with lumber of thicknesses between 15/16 to 1-3/16". I'm not keen on tearing my stacks all apart to find exact thicknesses. If she looks like a beaut she goes into the project pile for planing.  If you have bad cupping on wide boards, your better off ripping it in two, planing it flat and jointing it square. Just my opinion. And if it's a little out of wack use only short pieces, if it's real bad, then it's either handle wood, or firewood.

[WDH]

P,

I sent you a PM.  I have a copy of the FW article that I can e-mail you.  Send me your e-mail address.

[Larry]

Slabs to 15” wide I use a MDF sled with little scraps as shims.  Quick squirt with the hot melt glue gun secures a couple of shims.  If the sled has a lip, you really don’t need to secure the shims as pressure from the feed rollers is downward and against the lip.  To lazy, to make the FWW sled...doesn’t look any more accurate or faster than the scrap shims.

Wider than 15”, I use metalspinner’s setup.  I have always called that thing a router bridge.  Well worth building.

[Paschale]

So Larry, you simply lay your board on the MDF, then shim it enough to keep it from rocking, then put a little hot glue under each shim?  With the board slammed up against a lip at the tail end?

This sounds like it's worth trying.   

[metalspinner]

I would think if the board to be planed has minimal twist that the hot glue itself could be the shim.  Squeeze a puddle out and press your board onto it until the glue sets up. A few squirts along the length could hold everything secure.

[WDH]

Is the lip on the front of the sled to keep the workpiece from being pulled off the sled from the front?

[Larry]

Lip to the front seems best.  It doesn't take much of the hot melt glue to keep things in place.

[Paschale]

Well, I made my first attempt tonight.  I decided to go with a very basic sled.  I bought some 16" MDF shelving from Menard's, then trimmed it to 14" to give a 1/2 " clearance on either side of the planer.  I attached a lip to both the front and back--the back, like everyone suggested, to keep the board from flying off the sled, and on the back in case of kickback.

It was a little touch and go, but it worked.  The shimming was really kind of a PITA.  Next time, I think I should try the hot glue method.

I set it up on my table saw and outfeed table, so it would be a nice solid, flat surface to start with.  I had to cut the shims very small, since they couldn't stick out of the side of the board.  I got it so it wouldn't rock any longer, and ran her through.  I went light on my first pass, just to see how it would react, and really only took a little bite out of one corner.  The thing's heavy, with the MDF and the board, and I realized that hauling it back and forth with a ton of light passes would go old pretty quick.  I took a bigger bite, but she got stuck.     I think with the shimming, there's one corner that was really riding high, and she bogged down.  I've got a 5HP planer too.  It coulda been that the table wasn't as slick as it should be either.  I should have taken the time to put some wax on it, since I haven't used my planer in months.  Anyway, I was just anxious to give it a whirl.  A wax job is on the docket for tomorrow.

Anyway, I reset the shims, swung her around to try it again, and hit a shelf behind me, which knocked the sled right out of my hands.    Back to the set up.  Got it set, and the bizarre thing that I found is that the shimming was a little different each time.  Which makes sense, I guess, depending on what corner you would start with.  Regardless, I ran her through a few more times and had a flat surface...pretty much.  I tested it out on the table saw and outfeed table, and saw that it was perfectly flat except for the last six inches or so on one side.  I decided heck with it, and cut off the offending six inches with the miter saw, and then started planing like I normally would.  It resulted in a perfectly flat, uniform board, that's 13" wide.   

A couple of things I've learned in this first try:

1.  If you use MDF, get at least 3/4".  This MDF is 5/8" and it isn't as rigid as I would like it to be.  Half way through the process, I realized that the shims were shifting a little bit, as the weight of the sled caused it to sag on itself.  I started cradling the sled from underneath as I moved it, and this fixed the problem.

2.  I think making a system of matching holes in the back end of the sled, with corresponding small dowels on the back lip would help accommodate differing size boards, kind of like the many drilled holes in a bookshelf where you can adjust the height of the shelves.

3.  You can't have enough shims.

Finally, I think I may take the time to build that Fine Woodworking jig.  This method isn't that efficient.  If you had to joint and plane a lot of wide boards, I think that jig would work well.  The other thing I like about that jig is the torsion box construction that keeps the sled rigid.  That caused some problems, as I mentioned.

All in all, though, it worked great, though I need some practice on it the method.  When all's said and done, I've got a nice S4S piece of ash sitting right here, that's over twice as wide as my jointer!   

Thanks for the suggestions and comments guys!

[WDH]

So, whatcha gonna make with it?

[Paschale]

I'm picking out the plans right now.  I'm going to make some sort of arts & crafts end table for my living room.  There are a few plans from some of my magazines that I'm looking at doing, and I wanted to be able to have the table top be made out of two wide boards, cut from the same board, or else book matched boards.  Haven't looked through my stash of boards yet to see what I'm going to use.  But that's the fun part.   

Should be fun!   

[SwampDonkey]

I went light on my first pass, just to see how it would react, and really only took a little bite out of one corner.The thing's heavy, with the MDF and the board, and I realized that hauling it back and forth with a ton of light passes would go old pretty quick.  I took a bigger bite, but she got stuck.     I think with the shimming, there's one corner that was really riding high, and she bogged down.

Anyway, I reset the shims, swung her around to try it again, and hit a shelf behind me, which knocked the sled right out of my hands.   

I ran her through a few more times and had a flat surface...pretty much.  I tested it out on the table saw and outfeed table, and saw that it was perfectly flat except for the last six inches or so on one side. 

I decided heck with it, and cut off the offending six inches with the miter saw, and then started planing like I normally would.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments guys!

  Your welcome any time. 

[Paschale]

Went to my local lumber store today to look at some tools and to price lumber.  I was curious to see how much they'd be charging for the board I planed out the other day.  That's at least a $20 board.  Just another reminder of how cool it is, and how thankful I am, that I can get free logs and process it into lumber.   

It's great, ain't it?   

[SwampDonkey]

Well, that's a bargain. I saw at Lowes a 8 inch wide x 12 feet long hard maple board kilned and planed for $80 USD. Basically, 8 bucks a board foot.  It'll be standing there until the dooms day, unless a fellow needs a piece in a hurry for some small project. I think the red oak was $30 for a board similar in size. I even seen some tulip tree (poplar) there, it weren't cheap but i forget the price.

[Larry]

Thought I had a few pictures round some place.

I envision myself as the “Crotch King of the Midwest” ...so here is a typical sequence to get a really bad one flat with the planer sled.

This one had bout a 1/2" of cup across 22" or so, along with a lot of twist.





Red lines denote where I’m going to cut.





Slab on the sled with a shim under one corner...opposite corner also had a shim of the same height.





And the result is perfectly flat...wiped with mineral spirits to show off the grain.





Think??? this board may have ended up on a blanket chest I made while back...probably a picture or two in my gallery of the completed project.

Yes, the sled is heavy and awkward to carry...and yes it takes a lot of passes sometimes to flatten the first surface.  Another reason to use the router bridge on the bigger boards.

I mostly do walnut crotch’s in the 8 to 12/4 range.  That $20 might buy a nice small crotch for an old time spice box...for a Pennsylvania Secretariat you better have a herd of them $20's in your pocket.

I’ve been playing around with book matching, and quarter matching veneer.  Still a rank novice but it is really interesting to see the patterns develop.

[Paschale]

That's all the shimming you did, and it ended up flat?  Wow...I need to try the "less is more" approach.  Didn't the planer rollers push that puppy down, at least some, in the middle where you've got the big gap? 

I had very thin shims under every area that didn't make contact with the sled.  Maybe I'm doing too much...

I've been picking out some boards for my project, and so I'll be doing some more experimenting with the sled.  I'll try your technique and see how she comes out. 

There's a big discrepancy from one side to the other...did you just nibble away at it, gradually getting longer and longer removal? 

[Paschale]

Now here's a mystery. 

I decided to test this thing out some more tonight with a scrap piece of wood.  I've picked out the top for my end table, and they're going to be nicely bookmatched, so I didn't want to run my actual boards through without testing my system out some more.

The problem that I had on my original run through with the sled showed up again.  At the beginning of the board, there are about three inches where the knives are cutting deeper into the board.  I have shimmed under this spot, because there was a gap between the sled and the bottom of the board.  The article I read in WOOD magazine said to be sure to shim underneath the spots where it rocked, but for whatever reason, I'm getting divets in the board.  It seems to happen at both the front and back end of the boards.  This doesn't happen when I have a regular piece that I'm running through, without the sled.

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong, or how I can fix this?     I may end up making that Fine Woodworking sled afterall.   

[Furby]

Sounds like your sled is rocking as it goes in and comes out.

[SwampDonkey]

Probably cupped and twisted and doing as Furby suggests.


I remember a song Frank Sanatra sang......'I'll Do It My Way....'

Paschale, It's rocking because there are low points that loose contact with the feed rollers, then it grabs the high points and that's the point it rocks. She much be real twisty stuff eh? What you have to do I think is set it up so there is a continuous contact. That's going to be fun to eye ball.

Also, what could be happening is your sled when entering and exiting is not kept level. Might need some extension feed rollers on either end.

[Paschale]

Sounds like your sled is rocking as it goes in and comes out.

Well, the sled isn't rocking at all.  Especially on the way out, since on this run, I moved the tail end lip to the butt end of the board, which means there's about a foot and a half of the sled still moving through the planer.

It must be the board on top of the shims that is rocking.  The rocking theory that you and Swamp have suggested makes sense.  I'm just trying to envision in my mind what's happening a bit better though, so I can remedy it.

I've heard of guys actually screwing into a board, from the bottom of the sled.  Not so deep that the holes won't be planed out, but just enough to grab the board and keep it tight to the sled.

That seems like a nuisance, especially if you had a lot of boards to plane.  But I suppose it could be done.  You'd have to recess the screws into the bottom of the sled though, since you wouldn't want to be scratching up the table of the planer.  And then the question arises as to how many/how close would you need those screws to be?

But heck...Larry's been able to do it with shimming.  I'm just not doing right, methinks...   

[Paschale]

I've been doing some Googling on the subject.  People have all kinds of methods of securing the stock--some even use two sided tape, which seems a little suspect.  The hot glue idea that metalspinner proposed has popped up, and I need to try that myself.  Some people screw it down, and then others do like an article I found from Woodsmith magazine. 

You can see the article here.

I'm bound and determined to figure this out.  Thanks for all the help, guys!

Oh, and one more thing...I've read the suggestion to take very minute passes, so that the planer roller pressure is as low as possible.  Many light passes until you have a flat surface, then flip her over.  Makes sense to me.

Here's another article I found.  This describes the hot glue method that metalspinner suggests.  I think I'll try this method tomorrow.  Does hot glue stick to melamine?  I suppose I could put some tape down on the melamine, and glue it to that...

[Larry]

The hot melt comes right off with a chisel.

Most of the time my feed rollers don’t exert enough pressure to bend the stock...but I’m mostly doing thick and short.  Thinner boards just put couple more shims in.

If your getting divots in the board something is rocking...or your getting snipe.  Sometimes snipe is hard to eliminate...lot easier to leave an extra 3" on each end and trim it off later.  I always have to trim off a little anyhow, to get rid of end checks that pop up during the kiln drying cycle.

I plane much like your last link...I always put two shims in on opposite corners.  That way your splitting the difference and get a thicker finished board.

[metalspinner]

Paschale,
You really need to try the router planer thing.  After the bed is built (10 minutes tops) and the router sled is built (15 minutes) that 13" x 6' board will only take about thirty seconds to joint flat.  Flip it and 30 seconds later its planed.  You won't break a sweat - or anything else.

[ohsoloco]

What size and type of  bit do you use in the router 

[metalspinner]

It's just a 1" straight bit.  I have seen a 1 3/8" diameter bit in a catalogue.  It was a drawer lock bit or something like that. I've just been to lazy to order it. The style of bit doesn't matter much as I send everything through the planer or drum sander afterwards.  Of course, a variable speed router should be used for a heavy large bit. But the 1" straight bit does the job pretty darn quick.

[Ianab]

A straight bit works OK, I have a 2" bit on my router / planer, but the router is bolted to the mill. Not so sure about spinning that bit freehand 

I have been told that a bowl cutting bit is the best option though.
http://www.amanatool.com/bits-fv/45980.html

Cheers

Ian

[metalspinner]

Just found this ...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1662

It might feel like you're holding down a helicopter, though.

[Modat22]

I cobbled a sled together a few weeks ago for my planer. Instead of shims I used flush wood screws along the surface. Lay the board down on the sled and figure out where you need the shims, then lift the board and turn out your wood screws till you get the right shimming action.

It can be a pain to adjust but you don't have to worry about shims coming loose. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it adjustable from the bottom of the sled so one can leave the board laying down. I think it would be faster, I've been looking for a some sort of screw within a screw faster to make this work.

[metalspinner]

I've been looking for a some sort of screw within a screw faster to make this work.

What about a brass insert?  You can then use a 3/4" set screw that can be adjusted from the bottom.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=1048

if you bugger up the brass thread just a touch, the set screw will hold its place after you adjust it.

[Modat22]

Those brass inserts might just be the ticket. I imagine they will outlast the sped material. Could make for a pricey sled though 

I could drill and tap some brass or aluminum round stock and do something similar. Thanks for the idea 

[Paschale]

Paschale,
You really need to try the router planer thing.  After the bed is built (10 minutes tops) and the router sled is built (15 minutes) that 13" x 6' board will only take about thirty seconds to joint flat.  Flip it and 30 seconds later its planed.  You won't break a sweat - or anything else.

See, I'm kinda stubborn.     I have a 15" planer, and I like the idea of mastering it to use like a jointer.  But I think the router method will work great.  I'm sure with the way I operate, I'll try that route once I really figure out how aggravating using a planer this way can be.   

I haven't had time to mess around in the shop anymore.  I think with the knowledge I have now, I can make it work OK.  I'm going to experiment with the hot glue holding the shims, like several of you guys have suggested.  I'll see how that treats me, and then I might mess around with screws.

I've read in some other places of people screwing rails or runners on the left and right of the bottom of the board, and then running that through.  But you could potentially run into a problem where the runners would conform to the contours of the board. 

[metalspinner]

Could make for a pricey sled though 

Try T-bolts.  Those would work, too.  They are easier to install as well.

[BBTom]

I wonder if you could back off the springs on your feed rollers to do this job, so there would not be as much down pressure on the peice.  My grizzly planer has easy spring adjustment.  When I got my Griz ( secondhand) the springs were so tight that there was only about 3/32" movement before "bottoming" out. 

Just a thought, as I haven't tried using a sled, yet!!

[Paschale]

BBTom's suggestion about backing off the springs got the ole noggin' thinking.

As I put my boards through (either on the sled or without), they tend to be pulled to the left a bit.  I'm thinking that's evidence that the springs aren't evenly balanced.  And if my logic is correct...and I'm not saying that happens on a regular basis...but if it's being pulled to the left, wouldn't it stand to reason that it is the left side that needs to be backed off a bit?   

I bought some thicker MDF today, in a four foot length, so I'm going to see what having a more rigid sled will do.

But I still like the idea of the router method too. 

Just having fun experimenting!  The woodstove's firing away out in the shop, and in an hour or so, I'll be going out there to have some fun.   

[SwampDonkey]

Well it sounds logical about your springs Paschale. I hope the sled works out. I just came from the shop for the night with a good fire for overnight. I see the stars out and looks like it could go cold, no wind.