Dyeing Wood

[Patty]

I have seen where some folks are dyeing their wood projects, to add color to the wood. (duh  )

I want to dye or stain a bookcase I am building for my son. He wants it a flat black paint, but I can't do that, so I have decided to stain it black and then varnish it so the grain shows through.  My question is this: How do you do this? Do you buy paint, thin it way down, brush it on, then wipe it off? Is their a special colored paint/stain I need to buy?

I appreciate your help. 

[Burlkraft]

Patty,

They do sell concentrated dyes at woodworking stores. You can mix them with water or alcohol and get the exact tone you are looking for. When I rebuilt the FF table that UPS destroyed she wanted it dyed dark to match a bed she had. She sent me a picture and I was able to match it exactly.

[Patty]

Thanks Steve. But I don't have a woodworking store within 100 miles.  I guess I could buy online somewhere....Can I get this from a paint store, like Sherwin Williams?   You see, this is a Christmas / Birthday project and I am running out of time.


Patty the Procrastinator 

[metalspinner]

Paty, This might not help you before Christmas, but this is what you are looking for...

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=1718

This is just one brand.  But a popular one.  The advantage of a dye over a stain is that the dye does not obscure the grain in the wood.  In fact the figure is enhanced by the dye.

[Daren]

Here is a place http://www.rockler.com/search_results.cfm?filter=dye&submit.x=18&submit.y=9 . I don't stain wood (or paint it  ), sorta against my beliefs, I like the grain. But I do like to play with dyes sometimes, it can make the grain better in some cases.

[Patty]

Thanks guys. I am glad I asked the question. I avoided ruining my project, I was going to just thin down some black paint and wipe it on.   

[LeeB]

Thinned down paint would be the same as staining and would tend to obsure the grain somewhat. Stain is just paint with less pigments. LeeB

[Patty]

Yea, that's what I thought.    These dyes sound better, because I want the grain to show. Thinking I was going to paint it, I picked box elder to make the bookcase. Well now that it is all  planed, I really like the nuances of the grain, some red streaks, some curl, some nice grain....now I just can't paint it. The son will just have to learn to like it. After all.....mom knows best! 

[LeeB]

How old is the boy? Surely he knows by now if it makes mom happy every body will be better off. LeeB

[Larry]

Something I have used in the past...steel wool in vinegar and rusty helps.  It turns walnut as you can see a darker flat black.  Also works on oak...never tried it on box elder. 




The guru of finishing is Jeff Jewitt at www.homesteadfinishing.com  and I guarantee he will have a good answer.

And the pup anin't gonna be disappointed no matter what ya give em cause mom done it.

[Patty]

Thanks for the input guys.  My son is 27 now; not old enough to realize that mom is never wrong.     Although I am guessing in 10 years or so, old mom will look smarter in his eyes.     I figure his child will be a 10 year old then, isn't that usually when parents suddenly get smart again?   

[4woody]

i gess i was 36 when i seen how smart my dad is just wish i had haf is  wisdom

[Max sawdust]

Something I have used in the past...steel wool in vinegar and rusty helps.  It turns walnut as you can see a darker flat black.  Also works on oak...never tried it on box elder. 

Interesting Larry,

I have been looking for a natural way to "blacken" Red Oak.  Are the results as nice as on that walnut?

Patty,
If you use a water based dye make sure to sand the raised grain from the water based dye.

max

[Steven A.]

Fuming with ammonia is another way to darken oak.
Look here http://www.codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/oakfuming/
for some excellent information on this easy and economical process.

[Larry]

Max,
About the same on red oak.  First application is a usually a gray color with with more applications it gets darker.

Seems like I'm forgetting something...just can't remember exactly what.

[Patty]

Steven, my brother uses amonia fumes to color the white oak Shaker style furniture that he builds. It works very well and the color is exactly what you want Shaker style furniture to be. He tries to replicate their process as closely as possible to achieve the look.

[Max sawdust]

Steve,
I have not tried Fuming yet.. However I understand the effects on Red Oak are not so great.  I have heard you get a greenish cast to fumed Red Oak.

Larry,
What do you do, put some steel wool in vinegar let it rust some then rub it on the wood?

I think I will try it on a test piece first
Max

[Patty]

OK. I got some dye in, thinned it, and applied it to the wood. It is real blotchy looking. Have I thinned it too much?

[Burlkraft]

I'm sure you've solved your problem by now.......It's nice to get help when ya need it....Sorry...

I have had the best luck putting on my base coat like black and then sand it with 400 wet/dry sandpaper. Then I mix in the red or amber or yellow to get the tint I want. He wanted black, so I would do a coat of black and if ya use denatured alcohol then it's dry right away. It will look like crap, then sand it and apply another coat. Repeat as needed to get desired tint. It's prolly not right, but that's what works for me.

I always do a test piece or 8 before I mess up a project. I also found it helpful to number the test pieces and write down the mixture.

I wonder how I know that.....

[turningfool]

now theres a person who knows their wood..never heard of actually building anything with box elder..but..she is right about the grain and the red splothes..very nice looking when finished correctly

[Patty]

Hey, thanks Steve. No I had not solved my problem, I was kinda waiting for some advice, and of course waiting for UPS to deliver some more dye.     So you are saying the ugly blotchy look is ok, huh? Just need to put on a second or thrid coat? Well good!    You see, testing the dye on a scrap piece would've been sensible....far be it from me to be sensible in any way!    I should get more dye in today, and will try a second coat. Sure beats starting all over....

You wouldn't happen to have a black bookcase all built and ready to go incase I screw up some more. Heck, I can have the boy pick it up on his way back to Maryland! 

[Larry]

I didn’t post any advice because I know very little about dyes and what I do know is probably dangerous.  Guess my advice can’t be any worse than what you gotten already.

The reason the dye blotched is because the wood absorbed it unevenly.  Deeply in some areas and very little in other areas.  Some woods naturally blotch while others don’t.  To prevent blotching a seal coat of something like 2 lb cut shellac or maybe lacquer is applied first.

No idea on how to even the blotching out at this point...maybe sand the dark areas a little and apply some more dye?

And my disclaimer...this advice is worth what ya paid for it. 

[Patty]

I don't understand, Larry. Wouldn't shellac seal up the wood and prevent the dye from soaking in at all?

[beenthere]

Patty
Possibly 'not soaking in' everywhere is better than soaking in some places and not others, for a more even look without the blotch'ys.

Nice looking lathe....too

[Larry]

Your right Patty...any finish that completely fills the pores and makes a film on top will block the dye.

In this case the shellac is a very thin one or two pound cut.  After drying you hit it fast with fine sandpaper or steel wool.  This leaves a little shellac in the deep pores and prevents the dye from penetrating so deeply. This gives a much more even color to the wood.  Best way to learn would be to practice on a piece of scrap.

Trust your eye and do what looks pleasing to you.  I believe results are to inconsistent to give a pat answer.  Even how the wood is sanded will make a difference.