Author Topic: Box elder question (Read 1719 times)

Quartlow · « **on:** November 29, 2006, 10:44:11 pm »

Ever since I started turning I've been trying to get some of this stuff. Well today clearing around a field I found some.
The question is, the red in the wood, is more prominent at certain times of the year? most of the stuff I've cut so far has very little of the red in it.

And what causes it?

Furby · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2006, 10:46:27 pm »

This don't answer your question, but.......
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22397.0

Quartlow · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2006, 10:51:54 pm »

Yeah, I posted my qusetion hooped over to the general board and saw that.

Story of my life

turningfool · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2007, 04:10:53 pm »

seems like the older the tree the more prominent the red is to me..not at all sure what causes it but it defineitely takes on the bugs that inhabit its wood hues..not sure it has any correlation but thought i'd toss it in

lazy-river · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2007, 09:44:58 am »

My understanding of the red or flame of the box elder is that bugs spread their own fungus and then they feed off of that over time. The fungus is whats is red. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have a very large one in the back yard that I discovered when it fell last winter. i am currently looking for takers of what is down and what needs to come down. anyone in central PA interested? let me know.

Andy

Furby · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:58:33 pm »

I don't belive the bugs theory is correct based on what I've seen.
But I can't provide info to say either way.

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:34:13 pm »

I'm not the expert, but i think it has to be the bugs that cause it. On the areas that have streakes of red especially on the slabs where their is not the solid reds, every single streak, without exception, has one or two holes where the bugs have penetrated. I'll takes some close ups.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:58:45 pm »

The only part of box elder that I've seen the red into has been around the pith of the tree, which leaves me to believe it has something to do with juvenile wood. But, I've never found any info on it. I could be out to lunch on the notion.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2007, 06:13:33 pm »

Here's a quote out of 'Native Trees of Canada'

To gardeners, this is a "dirty" tree because it sheds. Small boys, however, seem to thrive among its hospitable branches and they, rather than nature, may be partly to blame for the gardener's prejudiced attitude.

There now, not all dendro books are dull and boring.

Furby · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:29:52 am »

I've never seen any of those holes around here Kevjay.

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:34:43 am »

Must be a Texas thang. I never seen any without 'em

Furby · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:46:28 am »

Haven't seen wood like you have shown either, so I'm starting to wonder if we arn't dealing with slightly different things.
Now if the color was cased by damage or stress to the tree, then that explains your color and why we don't get the color you do....... we don't have the bug damage as you do.

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:52:41 am »

I tried to get some close ups from what pictures I have in the puter but nothing doing with the 400x limit.
I will take some close ups if I can remember to do so tomorrow. But trust me with stuff - no holes - no red.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2007, 07:12:18 am »

Kevin, use your scanner at the maximum setting, you can adjust in the Custom section of the scanning wizard. Place a wetted sample on the scanner and with the scanning wizard do a preview. Then, use the scanning frame with the mouse (dashed line with red squares on each corner) and make a tiny selection around one of the borer holes (1/2" square or so). When that scans it's going to be a big picture because of the resolution. Then crop as close as possible and reduced to 400 pixels. See if that works.

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2007, 07:50:15 am »

You is a genus!

Don't have a piece with me and don't have a scanner at the shop so it'll have to wait til I get back home tonight but will try that thanks for the tip.

beenthere · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:09:21 pm »

Swampdonkey
Thanks for the method to use the scanner to get a good pic of the detail in wood.
I didn't know the scanner (after 5 years) had that capability. Here is a scan of oak, which was just cut on the radial arm saw and wetted. Dpi bumped to 450. I have an HP 4200C Scanjet cheapy.

Tips like this make the FF just that much better place to spend a bit o time.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2007, 02:49:07 pm »

Look at them rays and vessels.

Beenthere, now you have the honor of filling up the 'Id Wood by the end grain' thread on the Tree and Plant ID board.

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2007, 12:17:56 am »

I'll have to get better at it but it worked okay.

The pictures can't tell the tale though. You just have to see them in person. When you take the slab off the log and flip it over, the red streaks are not solid lines yet. they are just wispy little streaks with nearly everyone a hole in the center of the red streak. I assume these are the entry points into the log.
After you get deeper into the log, you still have holes but they are not to be found as prevelant. I take this to mean the "dosing" of the tree by the bug is carried into the tree by water migration or whatever - I am no dendrologist - but in lay temrms is spreads on its own after the bugs have inoculated it with their - urine/chemicals/sweat from boring

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2007, 07:22:17 am »

Kevin, is there frass or sawdust in those holes? Are the holes in a concentic path? Look at the outside of the log, are there holes ringing the tree bark?

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2007, 07:37:25 am »

I don't know what frass is. I will have to look at the hole patterns when I get back to the yard. Why come . . . whattya thinking I can tell you're on to something.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2007, 07:44:33 am »

frass is bug poop

TexasTimbers · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:10:04 am »

Ah. Fancy word for that. What's the word for bug pee

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:14:06 am »

whizz?

turningfool · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2007, 04:26:14 pm »

you two should take this show on the road you're a riot

Quartlow · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2007, 08:47:13 am »

Quote from: turningfool on February 03, 2007, 04:26:14 pm

you two should take this show on the road you're a riot

Don't encourage them!!! they are bad enough on their own

I cut a bunch more of that stuff, seems the bigger the tree the more of it. anything under 6 inches or so had little or no coloring.
Since I'm cleaning brush row I haven't noticed any bug holes its all ending up in the firewood pile.

News:

Author Topic: Box elder question (Read 1719 times)