Author Topic: help (Read 3204 times)

flhtc · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2003, 10:41:29 am »

Mike,

It turns at normal speed, at least it did. The battery is starting to run down now.

Noble,

I hope you are correct. Unfortunatley I do not have a manual it is a used mill and the dealer did not have one, I planned on getting one from Kubota I just didn't expect to need it so soon.
I guess the only good thing is that if have to keep asking for help I will be getting another tree soon. I really appreciate all the help and encouragemnet from everyone.

flhtc · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:45:56 pm »

I checked the fuel filter, it was very dirty. There was about a half inch of sediment in the bottom of the filter housing. I replaced the filter but it still won't start. I cracked one of the fuel lines and cranked the motor, no fuel came out, so it appears that no fuel to the engine is my problem. I now have to figure out what to do next.

Tom · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:57:40 pm »

You might have to fill the fuel filter by hand and bleed it until fuel runs out of the top. There is a bleed screw on the injector pump. loosen it and get fuel to flow from it as well. then go to the lines at the injectors and loosen them.

Crack the fuel line at the injectors and use the manual pump next to the injector pump to fill the lines. Or.......hook a good battery or battery charger to the engine and use the starter to crank the engine over until the fuel lines are purged of air. Tighten the lines and see if it will crank.

Air pressure on the fuel tank will help force fuel through the fuel lines and save a lot of priming with the pump.

Don't run your starter more that 2 minutes at a time then give it time to cool.

Larry · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2003, 01:06:46 pm »

On some of those diesels you have to bleed the fuel line after you replace the filter. If that is the case on your motor it will never start until you get the air out of the fuel line between the filter and the pump.

Next question does it have glo-plugs for cold weather starting or maybe a plug in block heater? If it has glo-plugs you may have to turn the key one way or another for 10-15 seconds to heat em up then hit the starter.

Good luck.
Larry

Larry · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2003, 01:20:25 pm »

Tom you beat me to it -- must be my 1 finger typing.

Going from a poor memory I don't think there is a manual pump on those. But if there is it will probably be a little flipper type thing that you work with your finger. Wish somebody would join in here that has one of those Kubota motors.
Larry

flhtc · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:03:35 pm »

Yes it does have a pump. When I started pumping I saw a lot of dirt and air in the line. I unhooked the line and pumped fuel through it until I got rid of all the dirt. I then hooked the line back up and pumped until I did not see any air bubbles. I then flipped on the glow plugs for about 15 seconds and it started fairly easily. It runs but does not have enough power to cut. Could it be that the fuel injectors are dirty and not allowing enough fuel through or is the engine damaged. As soon as I pull the hydralic lever to raise the head the engine starts to bog down, enough so that even at full throttle the blade stops spinning. It has a centrafugal clutch. I am leaning towards poor fuel delivery but do not know what to do next. But last night I didn't know where to start but with help from you guys I have learned a lot today. i would have rather been sawing. I still need to learn how to do that.

Larry · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:27:21 pm »

Making progress at least. Now it sounds like you have water in your fuel tank. I would drain the tank and refill with #1 diesel since it is cold. An alternative would be #2 with an additive called Power Service. If that fails I would guess dirty injectors but I am far from an expert.
Larry

Mark M · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:38:51 pm »

flhtc (that's a funny name, what were you parents thinking?

)

It's not unusual to pump out some dirty fuel with the primer because they don't get used very often and sediment will collect. Also I would expect to see some water and sediment in your sediment bowl. Does it have a separate water separator and could it be that what you changed it instead of the main filter? There could still be a fuel filter in the system.

Also you should have a drain valve on the tank to drain water and sediment, open it and see what comes out (this should be done every couple of days). If the tank hasn’t been drained recently you could have re-plugged your new filter. When changing filters I don’t recommend pre-filling them with fuel for the simple reason that most people dump fuel into the center opening in the filter. This is the filtered side of the filter and so unfiltered fuel gets a free ride into fuel pump. If you insist on filling the filter, get a little funnel and fill the outer holes. I’ve seen more than one fuel system damaged this way in my 20 years working at the Cat dealership. I also know it sometimes takes a long time to pump the filter fuel so I understand why people do this. Trust me that unfiltered fuel is very dirty even if it looks clean.

A couple of other questions: did it seam to have plenty of power before it quit? If so is it colder outside now than then? If so you could be dealing with gelled fuel due to low temperature. You might want to start over with fresh fuel after draining the tank.

Send some close-up pictures of this engine if you can. I don’t know what it looks like.

Good luck
Mark

Mark M · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:42:29 pm »

Larry you beat me to the fuel drain, last night Nobel beat me to the open petcock. I am just too slow typing my responses

It's good there are so many people willing to help this fella. That's one of the things I like about this group!

Mark M

flhtc · « **Reply #29 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:44:51 pm »

Larry

My wife said from the start that I had water in the fuel so that was the last thing I wanted it to be. I hate it when she's right about mechanical stuff. It happens a little too often. I guess its easy when your standing back watching someone else get frustrated. I'll try draining the fuel in the morning. It was fourty degrees today so I should have just gotten the Harley out and went for a ride instead of fighting with the mill. It never breaks down.

flhtc

flhtc · « **Reply #30 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:49:45 pm »

Mark

My parents thought gee this kid may not be pretty but he sure will look good on a Harley. I ride an Elactra Glide classic (flhtc). Just in case you were wondering its never been on a trailer.

flhtc

Mark M · « **Reply #31 on:** January 25, 2003, 02:55:47 pm »

Hey I used to have one of those, an 1980 FLH with a side car. It was a tan and cream Classic. We added the side car when we had our first baby. Then 2, 3, 4 - whooa! not enough room anymore. I sure wish I had it back.

Tillaway · « **Reply #32 on:** January 25, 2003, 03:30:22 pm »

There could be algea growing in the tank as well. If it is old fuel it may pay to drain it all and clean the whole system.

Good luck.

dan-l-b · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2003, 04:51:45 pm »

I agree with everybody

Just want to reiterate the part about using a deisel fuel additive like Power Service or FPPF. They will not only keep your fuel from jelling, it will seperate the water and sediment out of the fuel. Everything I have is diesel except my mill

You can find an additive at a truck stop. Good Luck Dan

Tom · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2003, 05:19:20 pm »

Not having power could still be air in the fuel line. Air is death on diesels. you have to get rid of all of it. While it is running crack the lines open at the injector, one at a time, until they run pure fuel, not bubbles. If air is the problem you'll know immediately upon tightening the line back up. There have been times when I've spent an hour trying to purge my lines in the field after running out of fuel.

Bro. Noble · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:11:28 pm »

Tom beat me to the air problem. I would bet that that is what it is if the engine ran normal before. Be careful about opening lines as the fuel is under extreme pressure. A pin hole leak can cause severe cuts or inject fuel into you with very serious results. The air will eventually work it's way out of the system but I don't know if this can cause damage. We usually carefully open the line at the injectors. You can check injectors the same way------like pulling a plug wire on a gas engine to see which cylinder is missing.

flhtc, bet you sleep better tonight than you did last night. I thought of you all day and was anxious to see what you found.

Noble

Mark M · « **Reply #36 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:58:38 pm »

Good point on the injectors, I hadn't thought of bleeding them, it’s been a long time since I worked on an engine with external injectors and I forgot all about 'em. If you are getting gray smoke cracking a line can help track down which hole it is coming from. Sometimes it’s hard to hear a miss but looking for smoke will help.

After thinking about everything that has been said I am beginning to think the fuel problem may have been the main culprit all along. If there is a lot of sediment in the system it probably sloshed around when the saw was moved, ultimately getting into the filter and plugging it up. This could be the reason it quit in the first place and not due to overheating. If it was overheating enough to make it quit then the engine would smell and feel hot. I recently burnt up the engine on my Honda generator. I was doing a twice-a-year check and started it up in the garage. It seemed louder than normal but I figured this was because I was inside. I plugged in my little compressor to give it a load and it just stopped instantly. When I went to restart it the engine wouldn’t turn over. What we found is the throttle has stuck open (hence the louder noise) and it was oversped which lead to a seized rod bearing. There was no doubt that it had overheated, I just couldn’t figure out why. Now I have a tachometer wired to it so I can make sure that doesn’t happen again. I’m going to put one on my sawmill engine too.

Speaking of water and sediment, we deal with these kinds of problems pretty often in the lab. There are some simple things you can do to help reduce problems. When possible refill your bulk tank late in the day and preferable right before a weekend. This way all the crud that gets stirred up will have a chance to settle over the weekend or at least overnight. Drain the sediment out of the tank first chance you get. When refilling your equipment, do it at the end of the day so it gets to settle overnight too. If you don’t when it cools down moist air will be drawn into the system leading to condensation. If the tank is full this won’t happen. Drain the water and sediment every couple of days, diesel fuel really picks up water – it is a fact of life. If you have water you have a good chance of having fuel bacteria/fungi (sometimes called algae). These organisms require water to live and exist where the fuel and water meet. They have a filamentous grow (mycelia) that extends up into the fuel, which plugs filters. The fuel biocide kills the microbes but the mycelia still plug up the filters until it is removed. If anyone is interested in diesel fuel I put together a presentation for our customers at http://www.butler-machinery.com/Fuel/FUEL%20PRESENT_files/frame.htm

Mark

Chet · « **Reply #37 on:** January 25, 2003, 07:08:21 pm »

Running but low power sounds like air in the fuel system, or restricted fuel flow. Check filters and tank screen if you have one, are you using blended fuel (diesel can gell at low temps). When bleeding air from fuel system on small diesels, finish the bleeding process right at the injecters. While the engine is running crack each fuel line at your injecters one at a time to release any traped air. Small diesels are very unforgiving to even the slightist amount of air in the system. What model engine do you have?

flhtc · « **Reply #38 on:** January 25, 2003, 08:35:18 pm »

To all

I'll try bleeding the air out of the lnes in the morning. It ran better the longer I let it run so hopefully air is the problem. I am a lot lass worried than I was last night so I bet I do sleep better.

flhtc

ADfields · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2003, 01:09:38 am »

I would go for bleeding at the injecters but WATCH OUT this can hert you in a hart beat. It can cut you open, inject fuel in your finger, put your eye out ect. the fuel pressure (rail pressure) at the injecter side of the pump is very very high!!

Now what I did not see hear is about air leaks. You changed the filter and you could have a air leak letting air IN the systom as it is running. This is some what comman if you reinstaled the same filter and gasket, sucks air in but no fuel leaking out. Also you should have 2 filters in the fuel line, first is a water filter with a petcock on the bottom then the true fuel filter but thay are sometimes both bilt into one can. I would change them both with new filters ASAP and keep new ones on hand.

Now for jelling. #2 is rated down to 0f if it's dry (no water) and #1 down to -30f but you will use about 30% more #1 fuel to do the same work as #2, I can feel the power drop in my Cummins p/u every year when I switch to #1 for the winter. The Cummins also go's from 28 to 30 MPG on #2 to 16 to 23 MPG on #1 fuel. This is why truckers used to blend fuel, now thay just run fuel heaters in big trucks called an "arctic fox" so thay can run #2 in very cold weather.
GOOD LUCK
Andy

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Author Topic: help (Read 3204 times)