Author Topic: help (Read 3196 times)

flhtc · « **on:** January 24, 2003, 03:26:04 pm »

I tried to saw my first log today and dissaster struck. I have a tomberwolf mill with a Kubota 950 diesel engine. While I was making my second cut the head stoped moving and the engine died. I thought maybe I was going to fast. I started it back up and tried again. As soon as I started cutting again the engine died again. There was either steam or smoke comming out of a petcock on the lower left side of the front of the engine. The radiator is now either low or empty. It was full when I started it up and there is no sign of a leak. This is my first experience with both sawing and diesel engines. I am not having any fun yet. Anyone have any ideas.

FLHTC

Tom · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2003, 03:56:17 pm »

Firstly find out where the fluids are going.

I had a horror story with my 38 horse kubota when I first bought my mill. As it turned out it had a mould fault (crack)and there was lubricating oil getting into the coolant. The problem was that the kubota distributor didn't want to stand behind the engine. I thought I was in real trouble Baker, the manufacturer of the mill talked to the distributor in Mo. and couldn't get anything done and wasn't really wanting to get anymore envolved in the problem. If I had not had a determined Kubota industrial dealer on my side here at home, I would have had to go to court for any help.

Find a Kubota Industrial Engine Dealer and try to get him on your side and do it before there are any hours put on the machine. If your experiece turns out like mine, you are in for a real ride.

I don't mean to scare you but you need to be hardnosed about this. These folks at Kubota are not the customer oriented people that the general public thinks they are. I wrote a letter to their USA Distributor in Cal. and never got a response. I wrote two more after the problem was resolved saying good things about the dealer and telling them I wasn't happy with the way Kubota acted. I've never gotten an answer to any of the three nor the Distributor in SE Florida.

My engine was replaced (the distributor didn't want to) and I hope it last the rest of my life. If it doesn't I'll be knocking on Caterpillar's door for a small engine. I heard somewhere that Cat bought Perkins and that engine is there small line now. If that is true they have a good little engine.

flhtc · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:01:51 pm »

Tom,

I should have mentioned it before but I bought a used mill. It ran great before I bought it. I hope the problem is just my inexperience. The worst part of it is the dealer I bought it from is 700 miles away.

Tom · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:04:41 pm »

hope that you started with an empty radiator and nothing is hurt. I'd call that dealer pretty quick but I'd still find a kubota industrial engine dealer. If there are no hours on the machine there should be some recourse through your mill dealer.

Check your crank case oil for water

Tom · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:07:42 pm »

I just had another thought. with all that cold weather everybody is having, do you think you might have popped a freeze plug?

flhtc · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2003, 05:04:17 pm »

Tom

I checked the antifreeze before the real cold spell hit. It was good to 40 below and it was full.

Tom · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2003, 05:15:41 pm »

I can't think of anyplace the coolant can go but to the outside through radiator leak, popped freeze plug or cracked water jacket/block; to the inside through cracked block( to the crank case or a cylinder or a leaky gasket that would do the same. Not being a diesel mechanic I don't want to lead you wrong or scare you. It would have me worried too.

If the crank case hasn't got water in the oil, I would feel a lot better. Did you check you dipstick for that. It would show "over-full" even if you can't detect water. Water generally makes the oil white.

flhtc · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2003, 05:27:24 pm »

Tom,

I will check the oil for water in the morning. I agree with you the water had to go somewhere and there is no sign of it on the outside of the engine. I am hoping for the best.

Bro. Noble · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2003, 06:35:32 pm »

flhtc,

Was the steaming petcock on the block or radiator? Is it to drain the radiator or block? For steam to be coming from it, wouldn't it have to be open or partially open? If that's the case, that's where your coolant went. It probably got bumped open or almost open during the move. You could possibly have started with a full radiator and empty block if the coolant had dripped out of a loose petcock. For an engine to stop from being too hot, I doubt it would start right up again. It would also smell hot. Some industrial engines are made to shut down when the temp is too hot, oil pressure low etc. Hope things look better in the morning.

Good luck,
Noble

Mark M · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2003, 06:47:27 pm »

FLHTC

I can't help but wonder why something was coming out of the petcock? Assuming it opens into the water jacket then it must have been opened. If this is the case then I would suspect possible vandalism, perhaps someone drained your coolant?

If the coolant went into the engine then your oil level will be high. Coolant will burn if it gets in the combustion chamber but not in that short of time. If most of your coolant was going into a cylinder you would have a hydraulic lock and most likely punched a rod out through the side when you tried to start it. I doubt if the oil went into the crankcase either because the small sump capacity would likely overflow if all the coolant went inside. Oil analysis will confirm the presence of coolant in the oil, if you want to send some I will run the test for free. Send me an instant message and I’ll give you the address.

I know it's too late to tell you this now, and I hate to even mention it because it’s like adding insult to injury, but it is good advice given to me by an instructor many years ago. It has saved my butt on several occasions: “NEVER EVER start a diesel without first checking the coolant and the oil level”.

Good Luck

Mark

PS - I've seen some pretty hot engines that were not damaged at all. There is a good chance you didn't hurt anything.

Jeff · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2003, 06:55:00 pm »

Standard procedure on all our loaders, EVERY MORNING. We have had coolent stolen from the loaders when antifreeze prices were around 7 bucks a a gallon up here a few years back. 2 loaders drained during the night. We have also had the screens punched in the deisel fill spouts so they could pump out fuel.

That one was kinda funny. They stole fuel out of the loaders that night but never touched the above ground tank outside. We had forgotten to lock it and left the pump plugged in. They could have filled up what ever and never had to come in the building.

Anyway we do check every morning cause no matter how you "think" you left it the night before it may not be.

flhtc · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2003, 07:39:45 pm »

Noble,

The petcock is on the block.

Tom · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2003, 07:50:14 pm »

I hope Noble is right and it might have just got bumped open.

Eggsander · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2003, 05:01:01 am »

I'll concur with the previous posts, and add a little. Another possibility is a bad head gasket. This can allow coolent into the oil passages (on some engines), which would be seen by high oil level and/or milky oil. It can also pressurize the coolent system by venting combustion gasses, which would increase the flow from any leak in the system. A diesel mechanic would have a gauge to attach to the radiator fill cap to check, or you can crack the cap to relieve pressure in the system, tighten it back down and run the engine for a minute or so, then crack the cap again to see if there is already pressure built up. Please be sure to do this on cool engine so you don't get a hot water bath.
If there are no obvious leaks, the oil is clear and at the right level, then make sure the coolent is full and run the engine and look for leaks etc. Honestly, I think Nobles idea about the loose petcock sounds the most likely.
The point about checking water and oil on a diesel engine can't be made strong enough. It's standard practice for us and we have still lost engines due to low coolent.
I just found out yesterday afternoon that a D-8 that I need Monday was leaking and very low on coolent. The machanics found that the bottom of the radiator was damp indicating a bad gasket or core. Also the above mentioned test indicated a bad head gasket. We hauled it in last night, I'll be lucky to see it by Wedneday.
I feel your pain...........

Mark M · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2003, 07:44:14 am »

Eggsander is right about a possible head gasket problem. An easy check is to just leave the cap off (cold engine), start it up, and watch for bubbles. If there is compression getting into the coolant you will see bubbles, and lot of them. It is normal to see an occasional bubble, especially after adding coolant, but I'm talking lots of bubbles.

I still think the open petcock is your problem.

Mark

flhtc · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2003, 08:27:51 am »

There is no water in the oil. The water did leak out the petcock. I filled it back up with antifreeze but can not get it started again. I don't think it got hot enough to ruin the engine. The high today is going to be around 40 so that might help.

Tom · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2003, 08:44:54 am »

That's a big relief. Funny how up tight a fellow can get over someone else's mill problem. I'd-a thought it was mine.

Mark M · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2003, 08:55:21 am »

flthc

Does it crank ok, that is at normal speed? If so that's a good sign. What oil are you using in it?

Mark

Bro. Noble · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2003, 09:09:45 am »

Assuming that it does crank normal (which might be a little hard to tell in real cold weather) and still doesn't fire, you might want to make sure it's getting fuel. I mentioned some engines having shut-down devices for low fluids etc. On desil engines, this is done by cutting off the fuel. When restarting you have to use the same procedure as if it ran out of fuel. Check your manuel to see if you have a safety cut out switch and if so check the reccomended procedure for restarting.

Noble

DanG · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2003, 09:48:48 am »

What a bummer to have that happen on your very first log!

DonT let it discourage you. This is one of those things you can look back on, and laugh. Of course, that moment may be a ways down the road. :-/ There is some satisfaction to be had in conquering these little challenges that life presents.

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Author Topic: help (Read 3196 times)