Fast growing pines?

[Qweaver]

If voles have become a problem in your area (check with extension agents or foresters who do tree planting in open fields) You might be better off to plow and disk a strip 6 to 8 feet wide where you want to plant trees for a screen.

All Right!  Now I can truthfully say to Sarah, "Well Honey, looks like I'm just going to have to buy that 3 point hitch rotory tiller after all".
Should I till just before planting or is this something that I can do weeks before?

Quinton

[Phorester]

Before the end of the year might be the best time, before the ground freezes.  Certainly a few weeks before planting the trees.  You want the ground to settle at least 3 - 4 weeks after plowing to close up all the little air pockets so you won't plant the tree roots in one. 

We have a problem on shale soils in my area, where they are frozen, then too soft to plow in early spring before tree planting.  When they get solid enough to support a tractor, it's usually too late to give them time to settle as described above before we're out of tree planting season. (Too hot & too dry for good tree survival).  So I'd say plow now. Yes, the soil is exposed to erosion over the winter, but you are choosing between two bad choices, erosion or voles wiping out the seedlings. Plowing now is the best choice of the worst. And if you plow up just a 8 or 10 foot wide strip, shouldn't be too much erosion.

But to break up a decades old fescue sod, you need a regular farm plow, followed by the rotary tiller.  I don't think the tiller by itself will break up this extremely thick and tough sod.

[Tom]

Just a note about 3 point hitch tillers.   They are really rough on a tractor.  I always wanted one and finally got one.  Then I found that I was better off with a plow and leveling harrow.  The roto-tiller does OK in pre-prepared seed beds, but, put it in the ground in a common garden plot and it will buck and push the tractor everytime it hits a stick, root or stone.  The seals on the power takeoff won't withstand as much of this punishment as you might think.  It is also hard on clutchs.  The rototiller itself will even be damaged if the ground is tough enough. 

What is tough enough?  Ground that hasn't been broken.  They don't like grass, roots, rocks, hardpan, or anything else in the soil where the tines might stand a chance of climbing up rather than penetrating.

If I had no equipment, I would consider a plow and harrow first.

[beenthere]

That is interesting to hear, Tom.

I have on several occasions rented a 60" Deere tiller, for the 3pt on my 31HP Deere when I want black fill dirt. I go to the good black dirt places in my fields that are in sod, and till through it a couple times to get about 6-7" deep, then scoop up the tilled dirt to dump and spread where I want to fill in. Then I seed it down. With the tilled grass roots already in the dirt, new grass comes quickly.

Didn't get the impression that the tiller was getting beat up nor that the tractor was getting beat up. All in all, it ran pretty smoothly. And I do have rocks and small roots in some places. Was considering getting my own tiller (50" Deere) to make some food plots and to level places in an old field where the head lands and furrows were not disked down level.

I need to check into how tough I might be on the equipment. Don't need any extra expenses for repairing things. I do have hydrostatic, and not gears, so the clutch is not a problem.

Thanks for the heads-up.  I do have a one-bottom plow that I could break the sod up ahead of the tiller, but seemed the single attachment did the job.

[Qweaver]

Thanks for the info Phorester.  I'm mainly clearing the area where I'm going to plant of large and small trees.  So I have to get that done before I can plow. This area was just covered with small "ironwood" that I have cut and pulled out the roots.  By the time I get the poplar roots out it should plow fairly easily.  With the way this land lies, erosion will not be a problem.
My uncle had an undergrad degree in forestry and was an entomologist at WVU and we had planted most of this 3 acres with Christmas* tree pines back in the late 50s and they did really well.  We didn't do much soil prep then but I think we just over planted and did not worry so much about survival rate.  We have some really beautiful mature trees from the ones that did not get harvested foe Christmas* trees.  But for this planting, I'd like these trees to really thrive.  

Tom, thanks for the heads-up on the tiller.  Cousin Arthur has a plow and disk for his 8N Ford so I guess I'll try that.  The areas that I'm working-up are just filled with roots as I explained above.  You've saved me some real bucks and maybe a lot of frustration. I love this forum  

[SwampDonkey]

2 furrow plow in the fall, space strips 6-7 feet, plant in spring. If you plow and plant in spring, make sure you roll the sod or same problems Phorester mentioned. Put the tree beside the hinge of sod. Better success than spraying alone. Plant 100's of acres of old fields and this was the most success. We also used a Kula that scalped the ground behind the tractor.

[Furby]

Tom and Beenthere,
What direction do the tines rotate on those tillers?
I know the walk behind tillers that have the tines running forward, as if they were a wheel, tend to be hard to handle and sound a lot like Tom described.
The ones where the tines rotate "backwards" are pretty nice and easy to use.
Was just wondering if the rotation was different one the ones you have both used.

[beenthere]

Tines (L-shaped cutters) come over the top forward, and throw out the bottom to the rear. Tractor holds the tiller in position. Some dirt comes over the top. Moving slow, with sharp cutters, chewing up good as it moves along works for me.

 Pics of some 3pt tillers

[tonich]

With the way this land lies, erosion will not be a problem.

Hi,
If you try to ensure best survival rate for the seedlings, then you shouldn’t bother for the erosion. The worst it could be - a small rate sheet erosion, which is easily self recovered afterwards.
I’m curious how you are intended to mix the three species – what kind of planting pattern?

Cheers

PS. Best regards to everyone here! 

[Qweaver]

Well, things have changed.  We're in Texas with Sarah laid up with a broken leg.  We won't get back to W.Va. until the 1st of February at the earliest.  The trees will be there mid to late Feb. and I will not be able to work up the ground until I get back there.  Should I call the nursery and see if they will ship the trees later?  I may try to get one of my cousins to work-up the soil now, which will give it about 4 to 6 weeks before we plant.  Will planting in March be OK? 
Quinton

[Phorester]

Sorry to hear about the broken leg.  I found out the hard way that any broken bones below your waist really inhibit what you can do.  Hope she is doing well.

If it is a definite that your cousin  can get it plowed and disked now, then I'd say do it and plant at your orginal schedule.  March planting would also be fine if you can do the preperation after you get back.

But if you don't think the plowing and disking can be done in time, I'd not plant this year.  Good site preperation is vital to get a new forest to survive and grow.  I've seen too many landowners lose their cost of trees and planting when they couldn't get the preperation done right or on time.  Then they have to do it all over the following year.

[SwampDonkey]

Get them in the ground as early as possible and don't delay into the summer. Survival goes down with the hot season and water deficit in the soil. I always planted my trees as soon as the frost was gone in the soil and sometimes even a little frost down deep. I've seen a lot of land owners that won't prepare their site and try to plant in July with bad results. 

[Phorester]

Our planting season here is late February through April. I like to have all trees in the ground by mid-April, but we still get adequate survival until the end of April, just not as good as earlier in the month.  Summer and fall planting is out for us. No survival at all.  Bare rooted seedlings aren't available from our State nurseries in summer or fall anyway. But some landowners have ordered them from private nurseries, to their dismay when they don't survive. 

[Qweaver]

I just got off of the phone with the WV nursery forester and have moved my delivery date to March 13.  This should give me plenty of time to get the soil prepped...unless Sarah falls and breaks anything else.     I'm sure gonna miss her help when I start planting.  Is there a preferred way to plant.  When my uncle and I planted trees years ago,  we used a spade to make a tapered hole, dropped them in and used the spade to close the hole.  It worked but I'm betting there is a better way.
The people at the state nursery are really friendly and helpful.  A real rarity with government employees these days.
Quinton

[SwampDonkey]

Are they container stock? Use a dibble bare with a step on the dibble head so you don't injure your hand/wrist. If they are bare root, a shovel is best and don't rock the shovel forward and back as that creates an air pocket around the roots. Then they dry out and die.

[Phorester]

Quinton, contact your State Service Forester who covers your county.  Your nursery contact should be able to tell you how to contact him/her. They may be called county forester, area forester, district forester, something like that.  They may have a tree planting machine that you can rent.  These are pulled behind a farm tractor and are the easiest way to plant long rows of trees or larger numbers of trees.

I have one that I rent to County landowners every spring.  The landowners supply the tractor and two workers, one for driving the tractor one to ride the machine.  A third is better, to help resupply the machine and the beer, pick up dropped trees, pack seedlings that for some reason didn't get packed right by the machine, etc., but 2 can do it.  Then they both go back over the day's planting to make sure the trees are right. 

[Qweaver]

Just to update,  We have planted about 400 of the 500 trees.  I hilled the remainder into a bed and will try to use them in the fall  to replace other that do not make it through the summer.  We did not get the last of them in the ground before they started showing new growth and they looked a little stressed but it looks like most of them are going to make it OK.  The trees that we got planted within a week of their arrival are all doing well.  We hand planted by digging a hole with the tractor and auger and lots of water.  That was very time consuming but we look like having a high survival rate. The dry weather has the ground showing cracks so we have been pumping pond water and giving each tree a good drink every-other day.  Next comes the deer fence.
Quinton