Author Topic: fire place mantels (Read 4642 times)

4woody · « **on:** October 29, 2006, 06:44:32 pm »

I have some good red oak 8 ft long what size to cut for fire manalls

woodbowl · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2006, 08:57:07 pm »

What ever size you want.

No really, ..... I've cut them from 2" thick to around 8" thick X 5" wide to as wide as the log would deliver X 5' to 10' long. Everyone is so different. As for me, I would like it as big as possible.

As far as selling precut mantles, I've never done that, but I should. Every mantle that I sawed was on the spur of the moment from the customers own log pile.

The first question they usually ask is, what size does a mantle supposed to be?

thecfarm · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:07:27 pm »

I have a 4x7 piece of granite for a mantel.This was before my sawmill.Looks good.I think the 4 inch would look better than the 2.But everyone has differants ideas.

4woody · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:08:38 pm »

Oky do i center the heart in it or cut as many as i can out of the log

hiya · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:30:47 pm »

I have installed mantels of all sizes.Any where from 3X8 to 8x10 old barn timbers. If you are going to stock mantels for sale I think I would cut cants to be sawn on order.The other way is to cut different sizes, then you would probly have every size but the one you need.

Richard

Jeff · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:38:39 pm »

Then do you want to have square edges or a "live" edge? Having a live edge, or an edge with the Bark or character of the log still on it is the rage around here. I gotta think there aint a good answer for the question as its all in the eyes of the customer. I think that if some one wants a Mantle your odds of selling one would be better if you could say "I can cut what ever you would like" rather then "This here is what you have to choose from".

I think our Mantle is 3½ inches by 16 inches by 9 foot long. It has a manual powered dragsaw sitting on it plus a bunch of other stuff. Should have made the mantle smaller.

brdmkr · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:49:27 pm »

Quote from: 4woody on October 29, 2006, 09:08:38 pm

Oky do i center the heart in it or cut as many as i can out of the log

I would avoid the heart as it is likely to check. I cut a mantle from pecan that was 4 x 10 x 10'. I had the heart in the mantle. No it is a couple of 4 x 5s

jpgreen · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2006, 09:46:44 am »

PM Solodan. He's the expert on this topic..

solodan · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2006, 12:49:11 pm »

I wouldn't say I was an expert, I just make alot of them.

I kind of already do what everyone else is saying, I custom saw each one. But I think there is a need for precut ones as well, cause sometimes I feel I give the customer to many options, and most of them don't really know what they want.

What I really like is when they just tell me to make whatever I want. If it is for yourself, well now , I guess you can do it however you want.

Rail-O-Matic · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2006, 01:09:41 pm »

I cut a selection of different thickness planks, leave them in the plank until you get the order then at lest you can sell the plank as well if needed, then what ever is left you can convert into any sizes, 4" is a good size for a plank.

rebocardo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2006, 06:36:09 pm »

I think very few people say "my mantle is too wide". That is like someone saying my garage is too big

So, if I was going to pre cut them, I would make them at least 12 inches wide and three inches thick. I would say, since you can easily buy 2x12s that cutting something very wide 14" x 3" x 6 feet might be a good compromise and likely to sell. I cut mine about that size. Just make sure you can lift them and only stack them once.

Make the width and beauty of the wood the selling point with the "you can't buy that at Home Depot".

4woody · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2006, 07:56:26 pm »

thaks ya'll i think i will just cut 10 pc 3 1/2 by 96inches

logman · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2006, 08:47:45 pm »

I just went to a log home/timber frame show and saw a few different
mantles. That was a great place to get ideas. Most of them were priced at
$500 or more. There were live edge, carved, mantles with burls, you name it.
I have pictures, just have to figure out how to post them.

4woody · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2006, 10:11:04 pm »

cool i would like to see them

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2006, 10:17:02 pm »

Me too. Go to Behind the Forum for instructions. ......or click on help above.

4woody · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2006, 10:27:40 pm »

logman look on wm bandmill exsention thats how i learnd to do pic

DanG · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:21:16 pm »

I would think cutting a few to have in inventory would be a great idea. That way, they could have a while to air dry before someone hangs it over the fireplace and lights a fire under it. Somehow, that just don't seem like a good idea for a 4" slice of green Oak.

Also, most people can't envision what a piece of wood might look like while it is still in the log, so you'd at least have something to show them.

I've been toying with another idea about mantles, though I haven't actually done anything with it yet. I'm gonna cut some 3-4 inch natural edge pieces where a large branch comes out, and use those as the end supports for a mantle. You could do the same thing on a log that has a major butt flare, too.

Tom · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:30:59 pm »

I always tried to keep mantles at 3 or 3.5 inches thick. A 4 inch slab is a heavy piece to hang on a wall.

I've done the swelled butt supports. I turn them over so tht the swelled butt is at the top.

jpgreen · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:32:24 pm »

I need a wood stove mantle..

Tom · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:38:11 pm »

made on from a pieceof cedar for a neighbor. He cut the circle out for the pipe. looks good.

twoodward15 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2006, 11:27:17 am »

Do you put the mantles up green or do you let them dry? How long is long enough? I cut one with my chain saw mill (from a log that actually turned out to be too short for my needs) a couple weeks ago but am unsure if I should dry it or put it up green when I cut the proper length piece.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:01:28 pm »

It will dry real quick in the house. Might check worse, but, if ya want "RUSTIC", you'll get it.

Larry · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:36:25 pm »

Few thoughts on mantles.

Oak over 2" thick is gonna crack during drying unless you take special measures...some people don’t like cracks...some do.
If I pre-cut they are always the wrong size.
Cut extra big so I can cut them down...or have material to take out bow, or twist if needed.
People prefer rough circle sawn mantles over rough band sawn.
Live edge adds value.
Draw knife and spoke shave can duplicate hand hewing to a certain extent and add value.
Anybody can saw a timber and call it a mantle...the mantles that bring the high dollar’s are something that not just anybody can saw.
Mantles are heavy...very heavy...quit making them for the most part because of that reason and the low return.

And a story for ya...I was on a road construction project one time and the contractor was removing what I believe was maybe a old trolley line underneath the street. He had a stack of ties...smaller than standard railroad ties. Took close look at em and they were hand hewn (hacked) walnut ties. All were dirty...some with big cracks. Asked the contractor if I could have those old junky ties...yeap. Brought more money than any of my sawn mantles...course they had a little piece of history attached to em.

solodan · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2006, 11:44:52 pm »

Quote from: Larry on October 31, 2006, 01:36:25 pm

Mantles are heavy...very heavy...quit making them for the most part because of that reason and the low return.

I agree that mantels are heavy, but for myself I feel the return is worth my time.
I get between $600 or $700 average on my mantels, sanded and finished. I average about 5 hrs total per mantel cutting, debarking, sanding and finishing. That is $130/hr average. I can live with that. :) I made seven this past month.

Larry · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2006, 07:15:40 am »

I took a peek in your gallery...saw a quite beautiful finished mantle custom made and scribed to the stone fireplace. I can see well why your work would command a compensate price...besides selling a timber you are selling a work of art.

Market area also plays a big role...and how much disposable income the customer has.

WDH · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2006, 11:39:59 am »

While heavy, I think the best looking mantle is 4" thick by 12" wide. When cut to size, miter the outside corners and run a double bead along the top and bottom. This has a finished and very classy look. The massiveness at 4" thick gives it a feel of high quality.

beenthere · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2006, 11:53:39 am »

There are historically some symmetry and size ratios that have been used to apparently make things 'look' right. A search on 'architecture size ratio' turned up some interesting info, one of which was

Greek symmetry sizing stuff

I have a 4" thick, by 8" wide cherry mantel that is on 4" brick so it sets out 4" and seems to fit well. The other fireplace has a stone hearth and stone mantel, and are thinner with respect to depth.
I am thinking the mantel size that looks right will depend on the room, the materials (brick, stone, split rock, etc), the hearth and all put together. (or get the mantel, and build the room to fit the mantel

)

solodan · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2006, 11:59:58 am »

Well, thankyou Larry, I don't really think of myself as an artist, and actually I would rather just cut the timber and hand it over.

It seems that once I finished and installed it for one customer they all want that. $:-\$ I will sometimes install them for free, cause I want it done the right way, and I am afraid that it will reflect on me if it comes out lousy. I can usually do an install on new construction in about an hour, so it doesn't really bother me, but I still have to take time away from the other stuff in my business. And you're right, market area does play a big role, I am lucky I live in a mountain vacation area, where people put a ridiculous amount of money into there vacation cabins. My usual customer usually has alot of disposable income, and lots of them have told me to charge more, as if they want to pay more.

twoodward15 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:40:55 pm »

Wow, I guess I have to rethink my pricing. I was thinking between $100 and $300 per depending on size. Are you guys putting them up green or are you milling, drying, jointing and planing, and then installing? Do they tend to stay relatively flat and straight if put up green? I'm just thinking that it would take forever to get them dried.

solodan · « **Reply #29 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:44:19 pm »

I would think that they would take forever to dry out as well. I always put them up suface dried, which seems to be dry enough. I have never had one twist or warp, that I kow of, but material that thick is usually pretty stable, at least with the wood I work with. I am not worried about checks, cause I have never done any mantels that were not rustic ones.

beenthere · « **Reply #30 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:46:35 pm »

solodan
That is an interesting observation. What species are you working with?

WDH · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:24:17 pm »

I think 4" thick by 12" wide has the best look. It is massive enough to get people's attention, and it speaks very high quality. I have done both ash and walnut this way. To install, cut the outside corners off on each end at a 45 degree angle and run a double bead along the top and the bottom. You run this bead on the support brackets as well.

beenthere · « **Reply #32 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:37:02 pm »

WDH
I agree with you, and think 12" would look great as my mantel too (can't change it from 8" now tho).
My mantel came from a piece of cherry that my old boss had dragged around the country with him for 30 years. He had always kept it under his bed, as he moved from house to house. He kept it, to someday be able to have a fireplace and use it. After all those years, he realized it wasn't going to happen, and when sitting in my unfinished rec room 'bout 1972, he made the statement that he finally knew where that mantel belonged. It had a heard check in it, and was twisted a bit and bowed a bit. Don't recall the original size, but it ended up 4" x 9" after sawing, joining, and planing. He wouldn't take a thing for it. I've had it in place a good 30 years now, and it hasn't moved a bit. Very proud of it.

The 'logger' from the forestry forum auction sitteth on the mantel now.

4woody · « **Reply #33 on:** November 01, 2006, 06:48:50 pm »

hAY ALL IT LOOKS LIKE I OPEND A GOOD TOPICE THANKS A MILLYONG KEEP IT COMEING IN I AM LEARNING A LOT JUST WANT A LITLE ON DRYING THE MANTELS TO THANKS A LOT

solodan · « **Reply #34 on:** November 01, 2006, 07:54:40 pm »

beenthere, I pretty much saw ponderosa, sugarpine ,white fir, and incense cedar. We have plenty of oak, and some other harwoods, but I live in a transition zone forest and most of the homes are log homes or cabins with v-rustic pine interiors. I have never been asked to make a mantel out of any thing other than pine or cedar. I made a mantel for a guy last year out of sugar pine that was 6"thick by 24" wide and 8' long, that one was real heavy.

Burlkraft · « **Reply #35 on:** November 01, 2006, 09:34:23 pm »

Here's a Big Leaf Maple burl mantle I cut the other day for the fireplace in the new addition. It's 12....er so wide and 8" thick right now and 6' long. When we put it up I'll saw it down to 4" thick.

This was after the first cut

jpgreen · « **Reply #36 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:37:08 pm »

Disposable income.

You hit the nail on the head there Dan. I get so tired of living in a broke county sometimes..

WDH · « **Reply #37 on:** November 01, 2006, 11:58:12 pm »

Ash makes a truly beautiful mantle and is not a bad actor to dry. It machines like a dream and has a very bold grain pattern. Straight grain ash is a good choice for a mantle. I have made and installed two of them, and they turned out fantastic. The mantle in my great room is 4" x 12" walnut, and while plain and unadorned, it looks great.

rebocardo · « **Reply #38 on:** November 02, 2006, 04:53:42 pm »

> The massiveness at 4" thick gives it a feel of high quality.

I think so. I just have to figure out how to use my mantle on my wood stove :-D

To help decrease checking I end coated mine and dried outside.

Chris Burchfield · « **Reply #39 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:24:23 pm »

solodan, nice looking mantels. How do you transfer the log radiun to the supporting arms?

solodan · « **Reply #40 on:** November 04, 2006, 12:55:44 am »

Chris, it is a saddle notch that consists of two straight cuts. Basically a v cut into the bottom of the mantle and then the supports get two flat spots to make a point. Then I feather out the point just past the contact of the two pieces. This makes a very tight fit and the illusion that one of the pieces is scribed to the natural contour of the other log. Even upon close examination it is hard to tell that it is just two straight cuts. If you are working with bigger logs, you could make this three flat and straight cuts, basically a v again but with a flat bottom.

WDH · « **Reply #41 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:30:05 pm »

Solodan,

I re-read this thread, and I went to your gallery to see the mantles that Larry referenced. They were outstanding

. You should have posted some of those pics...(maybe you did but I did not see them).

Here are a couple of mantles that I made. The walnut one is in my house, and it is the plain-jane model. The ash mantle was one I made for Dodgy Loner's Aunt JT.

Getting a big chunk of wood without splits and checks can be challenging

.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #42 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:10:50 pm »

I seem to remember you having a few more of those walnut mantle pieces laying around, WDH! I think when I build a house, I'll cut a knotty redcedar mantle about 3" thick with a live edge. The straight edges look better in a more formal house than what I intend to build.

WDH · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:48:47 pm »

Yes, I have 3 more blanks that are 4" by 12" by 10 '. I also have daughters, so you can guess what that means

.

The little log cabin might need a nice cedar mantle when you add on to it

.

ladylake · « **Reply #44 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:50:14 am »

Quote from: solodan on October 30, 2006, 12:49:11 pm

I wouldn't say I was an expert, I just make alot of them. I kind of already do what everyone else is saying, I custom saw each one. But I think there is a need for precut ones as well, cause sometimes I feel I give the customer to many options, and most of them don't really know what they want. What I really like is when they just tell me to make whatever I want. If it is for yourself, well now , I guess you can do it however you want.

How dry do you get the mantels before installing them? Steve

solodan · « **Reply #45 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:46:07 pm »

ladylake,

I just got back from your neck of the woods today. I was out visiting my wife's family in Minnisota and Wisconsin. I usually get the surface down to about 8%- 10%, something that is easily accomplished out my way just air drying. Most of the work I do is fairly rustic, so checks are ok, but twisting is not. I looked back at what I wrote and claimed that I had never had any twist, I do know of one live edge slab I cut for someone that was 7" thick that twisted. It was one of the first I had ever cut for someone else. $:-\$ The pith ran through it corner to corner

. Of course it twisted.

This could have been avoided.

I do try to use standing dead incense cedar If I can. This stuff is usually very dry and very stable.

WDH, Thank you. Yours are outstanding as well.

treecyclers · « **Reply #46 on:** July 20, 2007, 01:12:49 pm »

I do a lot of custom mantles myself.
I cut from 2 1/2" thick to 12" thick, 8-20" deep, and as long as I can go.
I do a ton of quarter round mantles with a rustic edge, mostly of Juniper and Pine, which people here love.
If they finish it out, prices start at $300, if I finish it out, prices start at $500.
Superdave

blaze83 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 20, 2007, 04:18:33 pm »

Hi All,

this is a really interesting thread, I never considered using a thicker slab for a mantle, hee is one I did a couple of years ago. I used crown molding and some other moldings to build up the mantle and give it a sturdy feel. it's a little easier when it is for a gas or eletric fireplace then real wood heat, less shrinkage because of the lower heat.... or maybe I'm wrong...that's deffinatly happened before

trying to rember how to post the photo

if its not here it will be shortly

see ya

blaze83

blaze83 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 20, 2007, 04:24:02 pm »

ok, I think I remember...here we go

WDH · « **Reply #49 on:** July 20, 2007, 04:32:54 pm »

Looks great Blaze

. Yours is the more refined traditional approach I think.

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Author Topic: fire place mantels (Read 4642 times)