Any tips on setting up a Logosol PH260 4 sided moulder?

[LOGDOG]

Hi Everyone,

   I've finally decided to go ahead and set up my Logosol PH260 moulder that I've had new in the box for 2 years. It's crazy I know. Long story though. Finally going to do it though. I've got steady work lined up for it and it's time for it to come out of it's crate.

   I know some of you have similar machines. Any tips that may help during setup? I've ran the big machines in the past. Just not sure what to expect from this one. Any shortcomings or limitations that the machine has? All comments appreciated.

Thanks,

LOGDOG

[Norwiscutter]

Can't say enough about the importance of straight blanks with this machine. Also, I have found that my infeed/outfeed tables have begun to sag a bit and need to be releveled.

[LOGDOG]

Thanks NORWISCUTTER. I'll be putting in a straight line ripsaw to presize the blanks and likely s2s'ing the material before it's made into flooring. How long did it take you to set yours up? Did you hire an electrician or wire it yourself? BTW ...I'm from up there. Where in Eagle River is your operation?

Thanks,

LOGDOG

[ARKANSAWYER]

   I have found a pair of straight bar magnets help in sitting up the bottom wide blades.   The tools they give you are lacking in doing that part of the job.   As for the side cutters it is not really a problem.   Mark the size of the spacers with a perminate pen and it will make sit up faster.  Once you sit up for a certian cut record the spacers under the knife numbers and then you can reset the same each time.  I can change the blades and reset up in about 15 mins if no one is helping me.   
  Wired it up all by my little self to a gen set.

[LOGDOG]

Sounds good Arkansawyer. How do you like the finish that comes off the planer? Do you have the single phase motors or 3 phase? I bought all three phase with a phase converter. I'm wondering if I'll be able to figure out how to wire that phase converter up.

Where have you guys located your blower system? Directly above the planer or further down the line?

Thanks,

LOGDOG

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Blower is just above and to the left of the machine and blows outside.  The wall is closed off now to keep the shavings outside.   Finish is good with sharp blades.  Straight material that is sized right will make better products.  I run every thing through a planer to make sure there are no thick spots and I straighten every thing on the mill to make sure they are the same width.   If you hang one up in the machine you will just have to throw it out as it will not go back in and get done again.  The one I use is 3 phase.

[LOGDOG]

Thank you very much for the pic Arky. Looks like a nice compact arrangement. I'll post pics as we're setting ours up just in case others are curious.

LOGDOG

[GregS]

Thanks for the info gents.  The timing is perfect considering I just received my used PH260 from GA.  I was nervous that my homemade 20hp phase converter would have a hard time with it but it runs fine.  The tips on setups is great with pictures to boot...thanks Arky.

I only ran one board and sent the knives in for sharpening.  They were a mess.  The profile T&G knives I got with it are really nicked up but a guy at work thinks he can still make them work. 

It's really good to see so many people happy with the unit!

[fireman05]

I have had my Logosol PH 260 single phase unit in operation now for almost 2 years and only regret 1. not buying one sooner 2.not buying the 3 phase unit!  I do mostly white cedar and pine VM T&G paneling, hardwood flooring and moulding.  I preplane the hardwood so I get a better finish, especially the flooring.  Otherwise I am very happy with the machine for the money.  I utilize the machine on a part-time basis processing material on average of about 16 hours/wk.  I do saw all of my material as well as kiln dry in a Nyle L200 DH kiln.  You should have no problem keeping busy and making money with this unit.  Don't push material through too fast for good quality finish and make sure all nuts/bolts are tight!  I did have problems with nuts/bolts loosening up and falling out which was frustrating. 

Good luck and enjoy!

[GregS]

Fireman,
When spending this much money one always likes to hear stories such as yours.  Thanks for the inspiring words. 

When you say "preplane" do you mean you use the Logosol without the side cutters, or do you use a different unit?

Greg

[LOGDOG]

Actually I just signed on to ask a similar question. Do you gentleman ever use the Logosol without the side heads in  to double surface prior to straight line ripping? Seems to me it would be a big time saver.

Thanks,

LOGDOG

[GregS]

Logdog,
We are on a role..

Here is another question.  I need some flex-hose for my chip-extractor Logosol hookup.  Has anyone tried using black flex non-perferated drainage pipe as a low cost alternative to the fancy clear metal support ring versions?

Greg

[mur]

I have the 3 phase PH260 and run it off a phase converter.  After much frustration and experimentation, what works for me is pre-planing the bottom of the board through a Woodmaster 718 to size the blanks evenly - no thick and thins.  The 260 then feeds evenly and consistently.  Finish is dependent on sharp knives and feed speed.  Good chip collection is a must to avoid hammermarking the finish side of the board.  Is a good machine for what it does and the money you pay for it.  I am switching to the WMoore tooling for the side heads.  Logosol steel is too soft and good for short runs only in my opinion.  Plus, I could not properly re-sharpen the Logosol profile knives - basically throw away tooling in my experience.  Hence the switch to WMoore. 

[GregS]

Mur,
Thanks I found the site WMoore.  I called there and they were very helpful. I ordered a new set of T&G knives and waiting for them to get in the carbide upper and lowers.  They will be $195/set.  They also have new side heads that will fit the Ph260 that will allow us to use more common profile knives.

Nice selection.

[mur]

Hi GregS:
Yea, the price is not really that much different from WMoore than Logosol and then they can be properly re-sharpened.  And they are the modern corrugated knife if you got what I got from WMoore.  Costs a bit to set up but Adam Lumley from WMoore said you could get a lot more "run" from the Moore knives.  He's down in the North Carolina (I think) shop of WMoore and they do all the Euro knives there.  Excellent folks to deal with.  I am travelling on the road due to my medical thing and don't have Adam's 1-800 # with me - it's at home back up North.  But the New York WMoore office can connect you to the Southern office.  And they can make any knives you can give them the pattern for.  Top notch made in the USA material.  Quick, excellent service.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Run all my boards through my Grizzly planer first to skip plane them.  If they hang up in there it is easier to get them back and replane.  In the PH260 if you hang one up it is hard to rerun it when doing both sides.  You can leave the top head off and plane with just the bottom head to size material.
  Then clamp them back on the mill with a cant on the back side and straighten them up and size them all the same.
  I like the machine and hope to soon own two of them.

[Brad_S.]

  I like the machine and hope to soon own two of them.

Arky, have you seen or heard anything about D&L's machine? It appears to be a Logosol on steriods and may be worth checking into as it may have the power to plane irregular stock without the need to pre-size.
http://www.doublecut.com/planer.asp

[UrbanLogger]

I talked to the PlanerPro guys when they first got into the business. Apparently they were one of the biggest distributors of the Logosol for many years.

They said that they suggested that Logosol make a 12" capacity machine to meet the needs of the wideplank market for reclaimed longleaf flooring and Logosol said no so they had a Taiwanese company knock it off in the size they wanted.

I offered to be their tester/reviewer but they didn't go for it. I've yet to see one in operation or a review of it from a customer. 

[GregS]

  Run all my boards through my Grizzly planer first to skip plane them.  If they hang up in there it is easier to get them back and replane.

Excellent info Arky...thanks.

[Brad_S.]

It's getting crowded in the planer/moulder business. Baker just announced a new 4 sided unit that looks similar to the PlanerPro/Logosol.

[LOGDOG]

Thanks for the comments guys. I know it's easy to get off topic in a thread. Remember, this particular thread is about setting up a "Logosol" PH260. Considering that is what I own, I was hoping to solicit information about successful set ups of "this" machine from other owners.  It's all good though. 

LOGDOG

[Brad_S.]

Sorry Logdog.
I've not used my Logosol much, but I can tell you it was easy to wire up. The user manual that came with the unit gave clear instructions for wiring the unit. I had 3 phase power at the box, so it was simply a matter of adding a 3 phase breaker and running wire through a conduit and attaching an outlet. I'm certainly no electrician, if I can do it, anyone can. I use a twist lock plug because the Logosol shares the outlet with an edger, but I will hard wire it when I move it to it's permanent spot.
I bought some of the Logosol dust piping but haven't used it yet. (I'm set up in a temporary spot at the moment, I'm saving it for my permanent installation.) I bought 25" of 4" dust collection hose at Woodcraft and it's working very well. Greg, IMO I don't think the 4" drainage pipe would work, it's not flexible enough. Woodcraft has sales on a regular basis and I picked the ducting up for a reasonable price.
Only other advice I can offer is to think of what the longest product you might run would be and leave enough room on both ends of the infeed/outfeed to accommodate that length. I thought 12' stock would be my max but it didn't take long to realize I made a mistake and wish I had more room.

[GregS]

Logdog,  Thanks for the gentle guidance back on course.
Brad, the more I read about dust collection the more I understand the importance of smooth sided transport tubes.  Thanks for the tips guys!  In my vast experience of only running 1 board before taking the thing apart for sharpening I have much to learn.

Logdog I'm sorry for the temporary highjack.

Greg S.

[Norwiscutter]

with good dry uniform blanks I have been able to run pine 1x6 T&G through at almost wide open on the machine. Like Arky said, if you jam it up, which is fairly easy to do, you will loose that board.  I have been thinking of going to carbide side cutters for my common profiles.  Another good piece of advice I got here on the forum was to run my paterns upside down in the machine to get better results.  Wireing was fairly straightforward if you are familure with such.  Also make sure you set it up with enough space on either side of it because you will run tight on spce after a while. Figure out what you are going to do the shavings because you will have a lot of them.

[LOGDOG]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Hope my comment didn't come off wrong. I added a little too much spice to my homemade soup last night and I think it brought out some of my inner "turrets syndrome". 

I was curious ...have any of you had any corrosion issues with your Logosol's? perhaps on the non-painted surfaces?

Many thanks,

LOGDOG

[fireman05]

I preplane with a Grizzly 15" single sided planer for my thick/thin boards but use the Logosol for most pre-planing.  I use only the top/bottom cutters and surface to 7/8" when I'm finishing to 3/4" material. 

[mur]

Hi fireman05:
I pre-planed  two thousand bf of 1x4 pine once - S2S - and then had a nightmare putting it through to T&G it on the final pass.  The Logosol feed rollers kept slipping and I ended up burning marks all over the wood.  Total disaster.  I never S2S'd again.  I now run the "future" bottom of the board through a Woodmaster 718 but I leave what will be the top (finish face) of the board "rough" - usually a band saw or a sash gang saw cut.  The feed rollers seem to "grab" better on the rough wood.  Maybe the stock (1x4) was too narrow to grab properly but I don't ever want to go there again.  Total frustration.  How does the S2S work for you?  I'd like to hear if you have any suggestions.  Thanks.
Mur

[LOGDOG]

What kind of a relief groove do you guys like for the backside of flooring? I've got a request to run 6" pine flooring on a steady basis. Do you like the half round type of groove or the more square/ sharp edge groove? Also, what's the rule of thumb for how deep you put your groove relative to the thickness of the flooring?

Should have the machine wired up by the weekend with luck. The moisture down here corroded my machine BAD even though it was covered and stored in it's crate. So I've literally taken half the machine apart and polished, buffed and rust proofed anything that had corroded. I don't want to go down that road again.

Thanks for the tips guys!

LOGDOG

[mur]

Hi Logdog:
I use the square relief.  I finish my flooring at 1" - 25 millimetre.  My back relief is 3/16" deep on that thickness.  In my case, this seems to be what my customers choose when I show them the possibilities. 
My Logosol sat in a crate for 2 years also in an open air shed - long story - but the corrosion wasn't too bad.  There was some on the shafts that the #3 head slides in and out on.  I am in a fairly dry climate so that helped.   
   

[LOGDOG]

Hi Mur,

   Sounds like we're birds of a feather. Maybe one day we'll get to swap long stories over a barley pop. You won't believe the pics of the corrosion when I post them. What urked me is the machine is advertised as "Rust Proof for Outdoor Use" (and I quote). That's hardly the case though. Amazing what naval jelly is capable of though. Coupled with patience it can really shine those parts up nice. I'll post them here in a day or two.

LOGDOG

[jack]

Oh These stories sound soo familiar.
My logosol has been in storage for........3yrs.....(thanks to the bloody redlegged frog)  its been holding up my building project.  I sprayed alsorts of oil base rust deterants on it.but it still has corrosion, and it is stored in a Shipping container.
AS for the hose for the Chip extractor blower,  MY unit was a demo at the Lane county fair, and the Boys at BAILEYS, had run S4S 2x4's thru it some of the hose is the cheap black hose,  looks smoother on the insides than the FLEX DRAIN STUFF. but i dont think it was as pricy as the clear steel bound stuff.  THE flex drain stuff i would think would hold spears of wood and clog up the works....
PH 260 really puts out the chips...can bury you in a hurry.

Im supposed to start building the house and Vegitable storage shed( read county terms for a bARN, )  this fall. 

soon i hope,

Take care
JAck