New tractor

[johncinquo]

Hmmm, not forestry and logging, not sawmilling, no forum for "I'm a goof and wanted a new toy" .  Its just a general discussion!

I have been looking for a tractor for awhile and finally picked this up.  A Jinma 354.  It is a chinese tractor.  They are imported in crates and the deal is you take delivery off a truck at a central facility near you, and put them together yourself.  I looked at everything on the market and they were either way over priced or beat to heck.  I was 20 minutes late missing a great deal on a kubota!  Well this is 35 horse power, 4 wheel drive, has a front end loader, pto with 2 speeds, 3 point.  Just right for my occasional dirt moving, log hauling, or hay ride pulling.  I have only put a coulpe hours on it so far, but everything seems to work as it should. 

The seller was in West Wisconcin and had it together alrerady, it was his demo tractor.   I got it at a great deal, and didnt have to put it together!   Burlcraft (Steve) just happened to be coming to MI to go bear hunting with Da Boss and we worked out a deal for him to pick it up and bring it to me, and then head up to chase bears.   He arrived with it here Thursday. 

I did some research on CTOA, Chinese tractors owners association website and found they were pretty well recommended and lost of good info.  For my needs this should work out just fine.  I'll let you know how it all turns out after a few more projects.

[Burlkraft]

John,

I hope that's an old picture....It ain't even dirty yet

Have fun with the new tool

[Murf]

Congrats there!!!

I hope it's got a BIG fan on the heater, cause that cab looks awful drafty...... 

[thecfarm]

It does look like a new one.Good for you.Now you'll have to saw out a garage to keep it in.

[beenthere]

John
Nice lookin rig there.
Havin fun yet?
I suspect Steve already mentioned how handy these are with a set of forks on the loader arms. 

[sprucebunny]

Congratulations , John  Great color

[CHARLIE]

Enjoy your new tractor!   Are parts available for them? 

[Corley5]

I'm looking forward to more reports on your tractor John.  I've been interested in them too and the price is right.     

[johncinquo]

I could not find a dealer in MI, that was one of the biggest issues I had with buyijng something site unseen.  I wanted to go look one over and touch it, ya know.  I found the best deal on the crate tractor from a place in WA state.  It would arrive in Grand Rapids at a shipping depot and they would load it for me and away I would go....  I was just a lil leery of that but I hear plenty of folks do it that way and only a few have ahd problems. 

This dealer is out of WI.  A real nice fella doing it part time.  We talked on the phone several times and I got the feeling he was just another regular guy with a cool part time/hobby job.  Kinda like a lot of folks around here! 

The price on one like this was about $11,795.  I go this one for slightly less because he had more inventory inbound and needed it to sell quick. 

Parts are a small issue, but getting better all the time with all the new ones arriving and being put into service all the time.  He sent a toolbox with it with the mauals, an assortment of spare parts like gaskets and fittings, and all new filters for the 1st fluid changes.  A nice little package deal.  I am eyeing up some implements already.  Theres a nice brush grinder I'd like to put to work.

[Tom]

The tool kit and spare parts are a good touch.  You are dealing with a fellow who knows how to market.  That's the best way in the world to quash the feelings a customer may have over support.  He's proving to you that, at least, he has the parts.

I like to see a person go the extra mile.  Selling is as much trust as it is a good product.

Still, I think it would behoove you to build an inventory of spares.   Grey Market tractors have entered the country for years.  There are some real horror stories of unsuspecting people, especially those who have purchased their first tractor and don't know what to suspect.   I have a friend who bought one and found that his power take-off turned the wrong way.  No U.S. made tools would work on it.   He had a gasket go in his fuel pump and couldn't get it fixed for lack of available parts.  Nothing else would fit .  There were no aftermarket options.  He couldn't even buy a replacement pump.   I don't know if the reason was that the company no longer existed or if it was cost of the item.  As far as I know, the tractor has been sitting in the edge of his field with trees growing up through it for about 8 years now.  Grey market tractors are notorious for their expensive or non-replaceable parts.

Having said that,  Other countries see the USA as a veritable, bottomless market place and there have been many in-roads in the quality and support offered.  I went to Moultrie's Sunbelt Ag Show one year and saw tractors from countries that I didn't even know were countries.  It seems that most have been renamed by bigger USA distributers so that you don't know exactly where they originated.  But, the world is still full of them.  Copies of Fords and Fergusons seem to be the most prevelant from the Iron Curtain countries.

[Corley5]

I've looked at Montana tractors a few times and they look like pretty nice machines.  The smaller ones are made in Korea and have Mitsubishi engines.  The larger ones are made in Romania and are I think renamed Longs.  These don't appear as refined as the compact models.  The castings aren't as smooth, the hoods are fiberglass and you can see waves in it etc.  The Jinma's seem to be a real good value.  Can the filters be purchased from NAPA or Carquest?  What are the PTO speeds?

[Onthesauk]

I bought a gray market tractor ten years ago and have easily gotten my money out of it.  Back then there were few dealers and virtually no info on them.  Kind of learned as I went and have had no major problems with it.

Now there is a massive amount of info available on the net, manuals and parts.  Dealers are still a regional thing so you pretty much have to do your own work but think I can get pretty much anything for mine, and it's close to 30 years old.  But if you feel you need the dealer support, gray market may not be for you.

One of the best resources is TractorByNet.com   Much like this site.  Good group of people, very knowledgeable and willing to help.  As I've mentioned before, they sent me here!

[ScottAR]

We've found some wix filters for the china tractors...  We just had to dig the book out and go on the thread sizes and gasket sizes...  Takes a few minutes but it's not hard
with some calipers and a good book.   A parts man that can read is also handy.

[Corley5]

A parts man that can read is also handy.

Just having one that knows anything is handy   I went into a local Ace Hardware a couple weeks back because I didn't want to drive back through traffic to one of the big places.  I was met at the door by a cheery, eager young fella who seemed like he might know something.  He asked me if he could help me find what I was looking for.  I was encouraged.  I told him I needed a 4" long 1/2" pipe nipple.  Simple enough right   He got this glazed look in his eyes and started looking around for someone to help him   I could see where it was heading and just asked him to point me towards plumbing.  I knew what I was looking for

[johncinquo]

PTO speeds of 540 or 720.   There are several cross references you can download for filters for each tractor, and either Wix or another brand will work.  I asked at my local parts, fluids, hoses, we'll order anything you need place, the one with the cat sleeping on the counter, and they said no problem, they'll be able to get just abtou anthing for it.     The "grey market" are tractors that are not made for sale in the US.  They are imported as used goods.  They are supposed to have xxxx number of hours on them before being shipped into the US.  You can still buy them here, but your more likely to get something that you NEVER heard of or be able to fix.  The Jinma, Nortrac, Landtrac, etc are all imported in new, and go through a dealer.  Its no John Deere for sure, but I can still walk after the bite it took out of my wallet.  I've played with it some more and found some things I like like the mounts for the loader are already attached to it, for when you want to take it off the tractor.  The extra connection for power PTO out the back for implements is nice.  You can get at every filter and connection with ease, no 7th finger or kid arm needed.  There is no power down on the 3pt, but I never even though to ask about that.   A few bolts have worked loose, so I am going over everything with loctite and making sure it all stays attached.  There are zerk fittings on every moving part!  I have a peeve about rust, and just love my grease gun!   Several body panels are fiberglass or heavy plastic, I dunno what to think, its lighter, and wont rust, but it does feel kinda odd on a piece of equipment.  I originally wanted the 454, or 45 HP model.  This is a 4 cylinder instead of 3, so it feel pretty strong with the 35. 
I did find some hyd fluid leaking, but it is coming out of what I believe is a breather on the top of the power case.  It may have just been splashing around when I took it for a "so just how fast is high 4" trip.   Its faster than I want to go on ag tires!  I picked up the back end of my ford f150 with the loader.  Didnt seem to balk at all.  I need to go find something worthwhile to pull on to see just how she pulls in 4wd.  Maybe I can get a chain hooked up for some stump removals this weekend. 
This is foot controlled speed or RPMs, I am used to setting engine with a hand control, picking your gear, and working the clutch to get er going.  This is more like a car and I have come close to stalling it, but I just have to give er the gas and away we go.

When I stop playing and actuallu get to "work" I'll let you know how she does.  Now, who has name?   I'm thinking Virjinia! 

[beenthere]

Power down on 3pts is very rare on any tractor. Not a usable feature, as it raises the rear wheels and you lose traction.

[Tom]

35 is a lot of horses, even if you wanted   45.    4wd adds another 1/3 of the total in horspower, so you should be able to pull down the side of the barn.  It's a ballpark figure, but that was what I was told.  That gives you the equivelant of 46 horsepower-drawbar.

How about Boo-Chinee-kracker   

[Murf]

Nah, it looks like the mighty warrior type, you can't give it a sissy girl's name.

My vote is for "Jeptha", being 4wd it could even make a river crossing easy....

      

[den]

Here is some more sites.

http://www.homestead.com/ctoa/
http://jplan.com/tractor/home.sht
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/kb13/TF_home.htm
http://tractorpoint.com/cgi-bin/tractor/homepage.pl?source=tractorpoint
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/greymarkettractorclub/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mitsubishitractors/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yanmartractorownersgroup/

[mike_van]

John, there's no reason I can think of where you want power down on a 3 ph. They are supposed to float to whatever depth you have the handle at.  My 574 [and many others] have draft control, it  controls the depth of plows, chisels, whatever.

[ScottAR]

post hole digger...

[johncinquo]

I have used it on occasion to push a disk down into hard soil.

Where I use it more is with a trailer.  I use a pull bar with a 2" ball mounted to it.  Back up to the trailer and haul it out to wherever you are loading, like a gravel pit.  Set the trailer down, load it with the loader, and then back up to it and haul the load to wherever your going.  When using the loader I bring the 3pt up so it does not dig into the ground when the front rises filling the bucket.  If I have the 3pt raised, I have to set the brakes, throw the lever, get off the tractor, stand on the bar, wait for it to lower with my whole 180lbs, then reboard, back up to the hitch, and make sure I have it lined up correctly the 1st time or I have to do it again to lower it.  With Power down, you just wiggle the lever and rock the tractor with the clutch.  Even hooking up implements is easier with PD. 

I checked out a few of those links, will have to go see some more later, cool stuff.

[Murf]

A lot of the old Soviet Block stuff had power down on the 3pth too.

Real handy for doing back blade work, a few hundred pounds on the blade makes a big difference, especially for scraping slushy snow.

Speaking of trailers, the average 3pth mounted trailer hitch can get real exciting when the trailer develops negative tongue weight, there is nothing but gravity holding the 3pth down, so if the trailer gets light in the bum, or you try to stop faster than the trailer wants to, the 3pth can go to the full up (or higher) postion all by itself. A very dangerous situation. The local marina at my summer place had this happen, the hitch came undone when it went up and that little tin plate behind the seat was all there was between a 5,000 pound boat and trailer and the kid at the wheel!! 

[beenthere]

John
There likely is an adjustment valve that you can open to allow the 3pt arms to drop faster. At least that is a feature on other tractors, not sure it is on yours. The 3pt arms should lower without anything on them, especially you 

For the negative tongue weight Murf mentioned, putting a short chain on your hitch to link it to the drawbar works. It will act as a safety link, not allowing the 3pt arms to raise to their full height as Murf mentioned. That feature can be used when lifting and pulling logs held up by the 3pt, to limit the height the front end can raise, precluding a flip over backwards. Just don't bend the drawbar by raising the 3pt arms too far.

A hydraulic top link is very handy (one shown recently in another thread) when using the 3pt to lift trailer tongues and other things.

For a real treat hooking up 3pt attachments, getting a quick hitch is the cats pj's. 90% of the time, just back up and lift, lock down, and go.  To drop off, just unlock, set down, and go.  Won't hook up the PTO that easy, but the ballast box, the carry-all, the blade, the rotary cutter, and the forks are all quick and easy.  Also, the quick hitch has a top hook to hang the logging tongs on, for quick log skidding. I know, it shouldn't be all that easy - but it is. 

[thecfarm]

On the old Ford NAA we always used some special pieces of metal bought from a Ford dealer,that went from the high point of the 3 pt hitch,up behind the seat,down to the other 2 points.These were adjustable,but once we set them we never adjusted them again.Than we would put the hyd lever all the way down.Would not want to raise the hyd lever up.We would use this on the baler or anything that we would trailer behind us.This would make everything nice and safe.

[johncinquo]

Well I bought a brush hog for a very good price so I can get a couple chores I had on the list done.  Its a nice John Deere, and its green.  When I looked at the Bush hog and tractor together, I noticed they were both green just a couple shades different.   

I think I figured out what to call it.....



Yer waitin, aint ya?









Its a John Dink!     

[mike_van]

Lets hope it dosen't become "Dear John" 

[beenthere]

johncinquo
How is that new tractor workin out for ya?  Been finding a lot of projects you never could do with out it yet? 

Maybe all your time spent in that nice deer stand, and gettin no tractor time  eh?

[maple flats]

Down pressure helped my brother out when we had a real wet fall. He had been using an old MF65 2WD and kept getting stuck. He bought a Belarus 420 4x4 (rated 60hp)and thought his problems were over. The tractor spent it's 1st night stuck in the corn field where the other tractor had been getting stuck. This time he was really stuck and I could not pull him out. In the morning he took some short timbers and assorted planks and shorts. He went to the tractor which was setting on the frame and tranny, engine, with no space under it. He put the timbers under each 3 point arm and down pressure lifed the tractor up, threw under some of the shorts and planks, unhooked the corn picker and wagon and drove out. When he had gotten to firm ground he hooked chains to the picker and pulled it out and then the wagon. He ended up hand picking a small section and was able to pick the rest by leaving the wagon unhooked and pulling just the picker, catching the husked ears in burlap bags tied onto the picker elevator and emptying them into the wagon at row's end. This time down pressure worked wonders. We would never have thought it could lift the back end of the tractor but we called the dealer for ideas and he said to do it that way. This however is the only tractor I am familiar with that can do this. That being said, the shifting of the tranny could sure use some refinement, this was a real mongrel to learn to shift, was done straight forward and back but you had to rotate the knob on the shift lever to get the various gears. That really took some practice.

[johncinquo]

Well the gas gauge doesnt work.   That only put me in 1 small bind so far!  I keep a extra full can around now.  I find I rather play with the tractor than ride the dirtbike now.  Its a lot of fun to just tool around and pick up logs, dig out stumps, move the compost pile from one side of the garden to the other.  I will use the brush hog next weekend to take down the old neighbor ladies "flower garden" that has been sitting for several years.   Searching around for a rototiller to add a couple extra garden beds and prep some feed plots out by the deer blind.  finding a decent used one has not been to easy and I hate to go spend the top dollar on a new one. 
The tractor itself has had no real problems.  I have only had to use the priming button a couple times to get it started after sitting for a few weeks.  I learned not to park it on a hill when the gas is low!  It crawls through loose sand no problem, I have ag tires on it.  I can fill the bucket in one pass with gravel and not dig in too much with the tires trying to push it into the pile.    All in all I am very satisfied with how she worked out.