sawing stakes

[two saw]

I talked to a fellow the other day that is sawing grade stakes and lath for local contractors and supply warehouses. I thought I could do this as well. Seems like a lot more work but more money from each log. I would like some advice on this subject. I have a few questions as well.
 Do you have to dry the lumber before you rip them?
I sawed out (51) 1" X 2" X 8'  from a 14" white oak log yesterday (experimenting). Loaded them directly in the truck and took them home. Sat there in the bed for a couple of hours and they really started to twist up. I think it would be better to dry them into 2" stock then rip them into the desired sizes. Is this correct?
 I also have been looking on the internet at some suppliers sites and the prices they are charging seem to be very low. I don't think I could make much money at there prices. Most of these places are in florida.
What are some of you charging for pine/hardwood stakes?
I have looked through the search area and done some reading and have gotten some answers.
 Any other advice I could recieve from you guys and gals on this subject would be really appreciated. I have found that if one needs an answer or advice this is the place to come.
Thanks for your help,
 Dan.

[Ron Wenrich]

We have a couple of guys that make stakes.  They buy pallet stock and then resaw for the stakes.  For hubs, they'll buy 3 1/2 x 6 and resaw.  You might want to look a pointers for stake making.  Cutting points with a cutoff saw can be time consuming.

I think it would be a lot more cost effective to cut to a wide width board, then put several on your mill and resaw to width.  Depending on length, you may want to cut to length before you cut to width.  It would depend on the orders and your mill.

The biggest problem is handling, and order size.  You'll get guys that only need a couple of hundred flats and another guy that only needs 50.  They'll also want them delivered and they won't be close together.

Prices vary widely from area to area, depending on need.  Landscapers use a lot of 6' 1x2s for staking trees.  Surveyors use a lot of 1x2 flats, but they have to be smooth enough to write on.  They also use 2x2 hubs.

[DanG]

Two Saw, you have the ideal machine for making stakes from your waste wood. At least it works well for me cutting pine.  Say I'm cutting 2x4s and I come to the point there is only 3 inches of wood left on the log.  I just cut that last bit into 1x2 stock and set it aside for stakes.  Stack and sticker just like everything else and you should have good success.  I do the same thing when cutting 4/4 stuff, and that's where I get my stickers.

[Mr Mom]

     Ron Wenrich...I have a question whats a FLAT and HUB?? Sorry for the dumb question.



     Thanks Alot Mr Mom.

[VA-Sawyer]

Was wondering the same thing.... does that make me dumb too ?

[Tom]

Y'all sure are dumb!!   

[VA-Sawyer]

Tom,
I keep getting this image in my mind of a pot and a kettle.... not sure why. 

P. S.    I noticed that you didn't explain either the 'flat' or the 'hub'.

[Tom]

that's cause I don't know either. 

[tcsmpsi]

Don't know about other areas, but around here, the 'flats' are the long pointy stakes used to designate a property line (with the vinyl tape tied to them and remarks as to relevant properties of particular survey).

Most in this area seldom use hubs (the shorter 2X2 stake) at the corners and other 'permanent' type markers,  and are much more inclined to use flats throughout the survey.  Do use hubs here sometimes for set up of the transit during a long, interrupted or zig-zagging line.  I've noticed a more prolific use of hubs in the cities. 

That being said, I've also seen surveyors use whatever branches/limbs/brush they have cut, poked in the ground with a flag (colored, vinyl tape) on it to designate a line.

I would also imagine the hubs have a more prolific use in vampire country. 

But then, what do I know? 

[Ron Wenrich]

That's a pretty good explanation of hubs and flats. 

[Jim_Rogers]

My sawmill business started with making stakes.
I make three foot and four foot stakes, and sell them at the local hardware store.
At one time I was selling them at three local locations.
One hardware store, one building supply store, and one back-hoe dealer parts desk.

Around here we use stakes made of hardwood and they are square, 1 1/8" x 1 1/8".

So, when I'm sawing out some back-hoe trailer planks I make regular hardwood boards from the outside lumber. If it's good grade then I save it in a pile on stickers. If it's low grade stuff we cut them to shorter lengths first and then rip them into squares.

Several years ago, I went out to NY state and got a pointer. We point all the stakes we do with that.
Although for many years we just used a chop saw and just cut two opposite faces to create the point. I called it a chisel point as it did somewhat look like a chisel used with a lath. Some contractors liked the chisel pointed stake as it didn't rotate when they pounded it in the ground.
They needed to keep one side facing the center of the road bed when using the stake as a "grade stake" for laying out the grade of the roadbed.

Most of the stakes we make now are for hay bales, three foot stakes.

We saw everything green and point and bundle. The bundle holds the stakes from twisting and warping. If the do warp or bend, it really doesn't matter, as the are generally only used once.
Some contractors pull them and use them again, but not all.

For staking out new trees we cut our stakes to 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" by 8' long. These are called "tree stake" and we have done them 5' and 6' long as well, but mostly 8'. They are installed with a standard pipe driver used for driving metal fence posts. That why the size of 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" to get inside the pipe. We first sold them 2x2 but the guy said they wouldn't fit his pipe driver so we changed the size to his specs for him and everyone else didn't care.

What I do is mill the lumber to 1 1/2" thick and then stand on edge and gang several up and cut them again to 1 1/2" thick creating squares.

I used to cut the short ones on the mill but now we just use a small contractor table saw and my helper cuts stakes on it to make the squares thus freeing up the mill to cut other lumber.
It's kind of tough on a small table saw but it works well with sharp blades, and green wood.

As far as price goes, I based my price on what my nearest competitor was getting.
I just call him up each spring and ask; “what are you getting for stakes this year?” And he tells me, and then I set my price the same as his.

My prices could be higher then most areas, I’m not sure.
But it figures out to be 44 cents each for the 3’ stakes, and 59 cents each for the 4’ ones.
So that’s around $1.40 per bdft.

For the tree stakes, I recently went up 5 cents to $2.50 each and that’s around $1.67 per bdft.

Any tree stakes rejects due to knots are cut back to grade stakes or hay bale stakes.

We make about 200 to 500 tree stakes a year.

And about 40 to 60 bundles a month of bale stakes and 10 bundles a month of grade stakes.

I try and keep some on hand here at the sawmill yard but as soon as I make up some, they sell, and are gone. I am sold out here now because of that.

I hope this info has helped you.

Jim Rogers

[two saw]

Jim, Thanks for your input. appreciate it.
  I think if a fellow had a steady market, it would pay for him to saw only stakes.
I might do some more advertising in the local papers and see if I can generate some leads.
What kind of sharpener did you get? I have been looking at on from a co. called Keystone machine. They have one that is manual, operated by a foot control and loaded by hand. seems a bit too over-engineered to me. They also offer a completely automatic version that would keep three fellows busy feeding it. Would love to find a good used gang saw. money is getting hard to come by lately. need to get the mill set up here at home and get sawing again.
Thanks again,
       Dan.

[Ron Wenrich]

For a gang saw, you can use an edger with multiple blades.  You would need 5-10 hp per blade, depending on stake thickness.

[Jim_Rogers]

What kind of sharpener did you get? .........
Thanks again,
       Dan.

Dan:
I got one from Hud-son sawmill company.
Here is a link to their site: Click here for link to Hud-son.com's stake pointer page

Mine has a head that will do 2" stakes maximum.

You can buy just the head and build your own brackets to hold the stakes, and supply your own power if you wish.....

If you do a search here on the forum you should find more info on stakes including some pictures that I posted of my machine....

Some ideas I'd use to find customers is the yellow pages. You can look up civil engineers and send them fliers about your stakes, as they use them. Also, find the guy who sells the hay used for hay bales around construction sites, if they do that out your way, and see if he'll either buy the stakes from you or at least list your number as a source for stakes.
And maybe go to the local tractor store, or backhoe dealers and put a flier at the parts desk. Everyone who digs usually needs stakes for layout and hay bales.....
As well as building supply houses where silt fencing is sold......
With these ideas you can generate a good customer base and then build an inventory, and have it on hand for walk in sales......

Good luck with your business

Jim Rogers

[VA-Sawyer]

Jim,
How many stakes in a bundle ?

[Brad_S.]

Contact your local political parties as well. A guy I know who makes stakes as his full time business sells thousands of stakes to politicians for posting those annoying signs everywhere. He did however mention that he is losing ground to wire brackets in this market.

[Jim_Rogers]

25.......

[Jim_Rogers]

Two saw:
I created an album and placed some photos of my stake pointer in there.
You can view it here:

Link to stake pointer album

If you have any specific questions just ask....

Jim Rogers

[Tim]

I don't know if its as bad down your way as it is here for political signs but I was thinking... Maybe your buddy that sells the politicians the pickets should offer a deposit on them Brad... maybe then they would tend to pick up their bloomin' signs...

[bandmiller2]

Don't forget tomatoe stakes or yuppie bean poles garden centers like those in the spring. Frank C.