Author Topic: Need help with plans...... (Read 2642 times)

Mr Mom · « **on:** August 17, 2006, 09:05:52 am »

Most of the mill makers are raising there prices beacuse of high steel prices i was thinking that i might try to build one.
There are plans on ebay that look good but dont know. I know the basics of how to build a mill.
I need a plan to follow just as a reference. I have a plan in my head and have ideas but my way is not always best way. It will not be portable right now.
Has anyone bought any plans off ebay?? Does anyone know were i can get a set of plans that they used?? Maybe i could wing it.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Modat22 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2006, 09:24:18 am »

I kinda looked a pictures on this web site and asked a bunch of question and winged it.
Bill Rake sells plans for a basic mill that might be a good basic starting point but you might not need them.

I'd be happy to give you any dimension of any piece on my mill but mine is pretty big and rough looking

Most of the steel on mine was salvaged from construction sites by me, a sawzall and a gas generator.

Mr Mom · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2006, 01:21:32 pm »

Modat22...big and rough is about what i think mine will look like. Thanks alot for the offer you maybe hearing from me.
What is the space between your band wheels??

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Bibbyman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2006, 01:35:22 pm »

Quote from: Mr Mom on August 17, 2006, 09:05:52 am

Most of the mill makers are raising there prices beacuse of high steel prices i was thinking that i might try to build one.

Have you already got your steel? If not, you may have to pay more for your steel than what a big company does. They buy in volume often get prices set under contract.

I know a couple of months ago a neighbor came over and bought some real nice oak 2x6s to build up a header in a barn. He and ordered some 6” steel I beams but the supplier called him back and told him couldn’t get them from his normal source and if he wanted them they’d be twice what he originally told him.

BTW, Who has raised their prices of their mills recently? Is I'm not in the market for a mill, I don't keep up with the prices.

flip · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:16:25 pm »

Steel is getting to be a JOKE! We have a trailer shop where we repair aluminum and steel dump trailers, stretch truck frames etc... so we use quite a bit of steel and alumimum in that department. We have a few suppliers that deliver one or two times a week. I am starting to build my log trailer and about fell over when I priced the 2X6X 1/4 20' tubes, $240/each. We have a part time guy that works at a factory where they make metal chairs, frames and tables and he got all the metal I needed for $600. You really need to check around and build it right the first time and heavy enough to upgrade and make mobile. I used 20' 6" C channel for my frames, 6" I beams for my cross members with 6" C on top of that with 1X4 alumimum bar on top of that for the deck. The cutting head and carriage was all 3" and 2 1/2" 1/4-3/16 tube that was scrounged from our cut pile. Better figure on $2-3K in metal, nuts and bolts, lines, wheels, guides and other misc. stuff...it all adds up.

Flip

Larry · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:27:50 pm »

We have a scrap iron yard where you used to be able to buy scrap steel, and seconds at substantial savings. No more...owner re-sells everything he buys straight to the foundries. He said most of the scrap yards are going the same way.

If I were going to build a mill I would copy an existing design from a company that has built lotsa mills. Even the biggest manufactures make mistakes, learn from em, and build a better machine.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:34:29 pm »

Quote from: Larry on August 17, 2006, 03:27:50 pm

We have a scrap iron yard where you used to be able to buy scrap steel, and seconds at substantial savings. No more...owner re-sells everything he buys straight to the foundries. He said most of the scrap yards are going the same way.

That's about what I found out when I went to buy some "scrap" steel from our local scarp dealer. He said he wasn't getting any anything but scrap. I had to go buy new and I paid around $100 for 2 4" channel irons 10' long.

Again, has any mill manufacturer raised their prices in the last few months?

mike_van · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:38:36 pm »

I called to get a price the other day on expanded metal sheet, the guy said the price was good for FOUR days only - thats all they'll guarante it for. Not meant to scare you off from building a mill, every time I use mine, there's a satisfaction only the builder knows - here's one tip though if you go stationary for your mill - My lower "frame" is four 20' 2x12's bolted up on the sides, 2x10's across the middle - these sit on four 8' 6x10's. The whole thing on a concrete floor. I'm always glad to send pic's too - Good luck with it -

Mr Mom · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:56:21 pm »

   Bibbyman...no i dont have the steel yet but there is a place that sales structial steel. From what i heard it has surface rust on it.
   The company is Norwood and if i do buy one it has to be before the end of this month. I got my new SAWMILL AND WOODLOT mag today and seen the price but did not try to find the diffrent just flipped threw real quick.

   Flip...everthing is getting to be that way. A big JOKE. Wounder how some people can even live today.

   Larry...That is the plan i have some ideas on how i want to do it.

   Just like flip said i want to build a good,nice heavy mill and only do it once.

mike-van...Thanks alot for the offer you all will here form me IF i start this thing.

   Thanks Alot Mr Mom.

Modat22 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:21:26 pm »

Quote from: Mr Mom on August 17, 2006, 01:21:32 pm

Modat22...big and rough is about what i think mine will look like. Thanks alot for the offer you maybe hearing from me.
What is the space between your band wheels??

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Bandwheel tires are 28 inches in diameter and the distance between centers is 85 inches. Bandsaw blade is 21'6" x 1.5 wide.

jrokusek · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2006, 05:45:37 pm »

I bought plans off Ebay for about $32. Save your money!! This forum is a good place to gather enough info to build a mill. Head over to http://www.diybandmill.com and look at pictures and posts. Ask lots of questions and good people will answer them.

When building mine I bought 1"x2" tubing (I forget the wall thickness) that was supposed to be part of a Jello display rack. I welded the 1x2's together to make the 2"x2" tubing that I wanted in the first place. I also bought "drops" from my steel shop. These were the cutoff's and misc stuff that my steel supplier got in. My steel supplier owns a scrap metal place across the street from their regular business. Sometimes people would bring in decent lengths of steel to sell as scrap. The business (Zabel's Steel) would pick out the good stuff and bring it across the street and sell it at a nice discount as "surplus" steel.....whatever that means.

I've had luck with trailer tires as bandwheels, some folks haven't. I built my whole machine for less than $1000. I did, however, have access to a scrap pile on a farm that saved me a few $.

It's not difficult to build a mill, just VERY time consuming and occasionally frustrating. I recommend exploring this option further.

Jim

gary · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:27:15 pm »

If you are close to Youngstown or Warren Ohio you can come and look at my mill. It is a timberharvester if that will help you any.
Gary

Tom · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2006, 08:03:53 pm »

Be very careful about buying plans. We have had, on this forum, at least one person who was trying to sell his plans. He also sells them on EBay. The crux of the situation is that we determined he had never built the mill for which he was selling the plans and had never run a mill nor sawed lumber. He was an engineer or something who just liked to draw plans.

You will be a lot happier if you go slowly and ask for verification of your self-drawn plans here on the forum. There are many threads to study.

Mr Mom · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2006, 08:39:39 pm »

Thanks alot guys

.

Tom... I remember that post. I know what you mean about buying plans. That is why i asked if any one has bought any good plans.

Gary... Thanks Alot it is only 45 min to Warren from were i live. Thanks for the invite.

jrokusek...I was just thinking about all the junk that i have. I will have to think on how to join them togeather.

Modat22...Thanks Alot for the infor.

Now that i think about it My friend ( yes i have some friends) gave me a truck frame an old stright truck,I have axels from an old Dodge 3/4 ton plus the tires.now all that i need is a little steel and time. A motor and other things.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2006, 09:20:39 pm »

I've been following the construction of a few homemade mills. There are some advantages, such as knowledge of how it was built so when something needs fixed, you just have to remember how you built it in the first place. There are also a few drawbacks, such as the resale value and the customer confidence that a manufactured mill instills. There is also a bit of time involved. During the time that some have spent working on their mill and finding the weak spots and working out the hidden errors of design, I've just been sawing lumber with my manufactured mill. In fact, I've probably sawed aroung a quarter million feet while some were still trying to get the kinks out. If something goes wrong with my mill, I don't know how it was built and probably couldn't remember it if I had built my own. Instead I look in the owners manual to find a nicely drawn exploded view with a list of partnumbers and a phone number to call to get the exact replacement. If I still can't figure it out, there are a bank of technicians at the other end of the phone line willing to spend quite some time with me to work it out. When I get ready to retire or upgrade, the manufacturer's name on my mill will make it worth a considerable amount. How much will your mill be worth in 5 years?

Mr Mom · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2006, 08:35:18 am »

Minnesota_boy...I have nothing against buying my mill.
My way of thinking is that if they have a mill for lets say $3,000 and only cuts a 18" log in dia and for the same money i can build one that will cut a 36" log for the same price then i'm ahead of the game.
Resale is not intended. I hope to build it to last a long time.
If the looks of the mill has to be all bright and flashy then they can take there logs to someone eles.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

firecord · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2006, 09:38:13 am »

I just posted this link in another thread but, I believe it is warented in this one also.
http://www.machinebuilders.net A lot of good stuff in their forum, and a lot of saws.

Norwiscutter · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2006, 10:13:02 am »

I want to build one someday, if only for the fun of it. But I don't think a guy would be wise trying to build a higher production portable mill unless he really had put some thought into it. When I look at my mill, I know there is no way I could ever come close to the efficency of it's design. Not that there aren't things I would change if I was the grand guru of sawmill manufacturing, but all in all, the amount of time and money it would require me to come up with something half as good would exceed the bennefit of doing it myself. Now I still have dreams of building a monster 4 post bandmill to cut slabs from the 50 inch white pines I got in my back yard.

Modat22 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:05:10 am »

I couldn't afford a manufactured mill and didn't see a time when I could have afforded the thing. I think I have approx 1400.00 in my mill but I do have a load of time in its construction. I didn't have anything better to do with my time anyway, and it got me away from the wife for awhile. It was a great way of relieving stress.

GF · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:50:29 am »

I could not see paying what they ask for a mill, knowing a majority of it is labor. Even though my labor was free to myself the mill I built I have around $10,000 - $11,000 in it. All the parts were new including all the hydraulics. And the best part is that its paid for. It does all I want it to do, and I know every part in it, and I can go down and buy new parts from any parts place, nothing is proprietary on it. Of course it was fun to build also, I never seen a working sawmill in person yet except on TV and the one I built. Some major changes have been made since it was first completed, a new engine was installed, new carriage lift system (used to be Acme threaded rod, now it uses rollor chain).

It has a hydraulic log loader powered by two 24,000lb rams, hydraulic log turner with chain, hydraulic log clamps, and log stops, two hydraulic log levelers, hydraulic carriage feed and lift, electric blade guide adjustment, remote throttle up/down on the console, 12v lighting to work at night (dont use since in a lighted shed now). I have some photos on http://www.twistedoaksawmill.com websites with some videos.

Eventually one day I may buy one already built, but the one I have now cuts everything just fine.

Mr Mom · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2006, 12:11:28 pm »

   Firecord...Thanks alot for the site.

   NORWISCUTTER...The mills i can afford would be all manual and production rate is not that big of a deal just want to cut lumber for me right now. That is why it is not on a trailer yet. If people want wood cut they will bring the log to me.

Modat22...i have about everthing i need to build it but there is some things that i have to get still. I have to buy as i build because of diffrent parts sizes.

GF...Thanks alot for the site. Look like a very good mill. Hope that mine comes out looking half as good.

   Could i use 2" pipe for the cariage frame?? There is a oil field supply company close to me an they have black steel pipe everwere.

   Thanks Alot Mr Mom.

jrokusek · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2006, 01:54:03 pm »

I should have mentioned that if you are planning on doing this full-time and making a living from it it's in your best interest to buy a commercially made mill. If you've sawed for years on various machines and are a heck of a fabricator you can probably make a better one that most manufactures.

As for me, I assumed that the value of my mill, as far as resale value goes, was worth almost nothing. I could take the engine, pulley's and trailer tires off and make a go-kart - the rest would have value only as scrap.

Mr Mom · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2006, 04:31:12 pm »

jrokusek...well i am not a heck of a fabricator i am just a hack at fabricating

.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2006, 07:38:47 pm »

My main point wasn't about buying a bright and shiny mill, it was that the time you spend building your own has value too. My time milling is worth between $25 and $50 per hour, depending on the job. Your building time is worth that too as that is what you have given up while waiting to get the mill built. Now your cheap homemade mill has a lot more cost, doesn't it?

willknot · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2006, 09:01:25 pm »

Hello Mr. Mom. I think most of us that build our mills don't plan on making a living at it anyway so for me I look at it like the first couple jobs I do for myself are gonna pay for it. A buddy of mine heard I was building a mill, I told him I would have around $3,000.00 in it when completed, He then told me I was crazy because his dad bought a new one for $6,500.00 and it wasn't worth building one. A couple of weeks ago he happened by and asked to see the mill I was building, I pointed him to it and did his jaw drop. He plans on bringing his Dad by to see it. He says I got two to threes times the mill they got and he no longer thinks I'm crazy.Oh ya, they bought last year and haven't milled anything yet as they have been making improvements and increasing it's capabilties since.I plan on making sawdust for the first time this weekend and am I stokked.
Buying a mill wasn't an option for me. It never even crossed my mind.(only because I have a full service machine shop at my disposal

) I did lots of homework and also tried to sketch things out ahead to save time in the shop.I also built it heavy enough so I could add options to it later.There's a couple of things that I've learned for sure from this project.
1. I will never build another one!
2. I will never sell it!

Good Luck Willknot

Mr Mom · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2006, 09:41:25 pm »

Minnesota_boy...I understand what you are saying. I dont count my time as lost beacuse i dont plan on doing milling full time and even if i bought a new one i would have to mill a bunch of wood to get good enough to be able to charge people money to cut lumber for them.

Willknot...I know what you are saying about the prices for mills.I dont have a problem with what they charge for them and if that is what they need to stay in the game then it is fine with me. This is why i asked if anyone had plans.
I wish i was in your shoes and have a metal shop at my disposal.
Good luck on your first milling. We need pictures to see that you did mill some lumber

.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #26 on:** August 18, 2006, 09:42:32 pm »

i really believe you can build a base-line manual model that's actually worth a crap for a few grand, whereas the cheapest "usable" models are now like $3500....

you can buy a 25hp engine, and trailer tires, and make a frame for almost that.... while using my Oscar 28 today, it was pounding through my head, simply because those small mills just don't have the production capability. I don't mind the manual part, I do mind the slow, under powered, vibrating part.

jrokusek · « **Reply #27 on:** August 18, 2006, 11:05:33 pm »

Quote from: Mr Mom on August 18, 2006, 04:31:12 pm

jrokusek...well i am not a heck of a fabricator i am just a hack at fabricating .
Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Aw shoot - don't let that stop you! There's a guy on this forum that used a CB400A Honda motorcycle engine with an auto transmission, pallet racking and various other misc parts and he has a working machine. Seems to cut just fine. Don't let being a hack stop you! I'm nothing more than a redneck hack who gets to wear a tie to work.

Here's the thread I'm thinking of: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=11591.0

Mr Mom · « **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2006, 08:50:45 am »

jrokusek...A tie

i only were them once or twice a year

. Well i am going to my dads today to see what parts i can find over there.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom.

dad2nine · « **Reply #29 on:** August 19, 2006, 10:53:06 pm »

Gary, I took a look at your website real nice operation you got there. Very clean and organized web site too.

Modat22 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 21, 2006, 11:26:17 am »

If you enjoy building stuff don't let the time you spend on it bother you. I make little wooden projects all the time and wouldn't dream charging what I think My time is worth. If I'm working for myself I'd give myself one heck of a discount

Just give yourself a very flexible building schedule, I made the mistake of setting completion times and gave up on those. Now I'm not worrying about when I'm 100 percent complete because it ain't ever gonna be 100 percent complete. I'll probably always come up with something else to put on there. Just the other day I was wondering where I was gonna put bed and coffee maker.

Mr Mom · « **Reply #31 on:** August 21, 2006, 02:16:14 pm »

Modat22...I have decided to build my mill.
My time line is done by spring and if i dont then i dont.
My schedule is work on it when my wife says i can. I asked the neighbor if i could use his garage beacuse the little white stuff will be flying here soon. He said that i could.
For the next few months i will be geting parts and when it is nasty outside i will start building.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

News:

Author Topic: Need help with plans...... (Read 2642 times)