Lets make some tongue and groove

[Larry]

I made some random width tongue and groove “V” panels today.  Took few pics so maybe somebody could learn something...or maybe somebody can teach me something new.




The basic setup...shaper with stock feeder.  The factory fence on the left is only on for safety and to catch dust.  Stock does not touch it at all.  The feeder is set to push the stock against the wood fence on the right.  Two reasons to do it this way.  Since the wood fence is a solid board there is no chance for snipe and when I cut the tongue the stock will be dimensioned to it’s final width.  It is extremely accurate...no variation in width at all.  Think hardwood flooring.




Picture of the setup with the feeder swung out of the way.  Here is the beauty of using a shaper.  Most know cedar, curly maple, ash, and many other woods will chip out because of knots or wild grain.  Besides the high speed of the cutter head the shaper has a reversible motor so we can run the cutter either direction.  With cedar normal cutting is going to blow out the knots so...I’m gonna climb cut.

CAUTION...Climb cutting has to be done with a power feeder for safety...no exceptions.

Stock is being fed from right to left.  Cutter rotation is clockwise.  Make sure the cutter is on the arbor properly aligned and the shaft is rotating in the right direction...cutters tend to burn the wood if ya get it backward.  And don’t ask how I know this.

So I ran maybe 1200 feet of random width “V” panels this morning.  Zero defects due to chip out and the quality is as good as it gets.  I also have a planer/moulder, router table, and old 4 head moulder...the shaper gets the nod every time when the highest quality work is required.  The big drawback is the shaper is slow...but I have lots more time than money.




Few scraps stuck together so you can see what I’m talking bout.

Few more words on safety...make sure clamps, knobs, and feeder are all tight.  Feeder in the right direction, arbor rotation right, cutter on right, and the correct motor speed for the cutter.  Double check your set up...and if it don't feel safe...don't do it.



 

[North State]

Larry you should be teaching! Way to go!!!

[UNCLEBUCK]

That is awesome Larry , is that the 3 or 5 hp shaper ?  How about the feeder?    That is awesome 

[Larry]

UB, the shaper is a 3 HP Delta.  The feeder is a 1/4 HP Grizzly that I picked up on the cheap.  Haven’t ran it long so don’t know if it is going to be adequate with only 1/4 HP.  Had a Steff on it previously...it was a brute but gave up the ghost.

[mikeandike]

Hey I need to make some tongue and groove paneling and flooring for Ike's
new room. Is that shaper an old machine? what am I looking at to get a
set up like that?

Looks a lot safer than what I was going to do. Table saw (shudder).

[Larry]

That shaper has probably been made for better than 60 years...bought my machine maybe 15 years ago.  You can buy the same machine today with couple of very minor changes.

Just a guess but I would think you could be cutting wood for somewhere between $2,000 to $2,500.

You might be ahead if you could find somebody that does custom work.  I get a lot of referrals for small runs of period moulding that the big boys can't or don't want to fool around with.

[treecyclers]

A basic 3HP shaper can be had for just under a grand used, 1500-2000 new, depending on mfr.
Jeff at Arizona Hardwoods has a few on hand that he's looking to sell, if someone desires one, and I believe that he has a truck going east real soon.
If you'd like Jeff's information, contact me off list, and I will put you in touch with him.
SD

[StorminN]

Larry, I've never done this, so I have a couple of questions...

Do you use the factory fence when you shape the groove? If not, how do you set the distance correctly?

I'm picturing you shape the groove first, then set the right-hand fence to the "random width" you want, and run them through again to shape the groove?

I ask, because I'm contemplating doing an upstairs room in t&g boards instead of drywall... got to decide soon, though...

-Norm.

[Larry]

Larry, I've never done this, so I have a couple of questions...

Do you use the factory fence when you shape the groove?  Yes If not, how do you set the distance correctly?

I'm picturing you shape the groove first, then set the right-hand fence to the "random width" you want, and run them through again to shape the groovetongue?  Yes again

I ask, because I'm contemplating doing an upstairs room in t&g boards instead of drywall... got to decide soon, though...

-Norm.

Sounds like a fun project...take some pictures to share with us.

[StorminN]

Thanks Larry,

I will take some pics when / if I do this...

-Norm.

[beav39]

I made some random width tongue and groove “V” panels today.  Took few pics so maybe somebody could learn something...or maybe somebody can teach me something new.

so larry does the powerfeed keep the board tight to the right (fence?)
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

The basic setup...shaper with stock feeder.  The factory fence on the left is only on for safety and to catch dust.  Stock does not touch it at all.  The feeder is set to push the stock against the wood fence on the right.  Two reasons to do it this way.  Since the wood fence is a solid board there is no chance for snipe and when I cut the tongue the stock will be dimensioned to it’s final width.  It is extremely accurate...no variation in width at all.  Think hardwood flooring.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Picture of the setup with the feeder swung out of the way.  Here is the beauty of using a shaper.  Most know cedar, curly maple, ash, and many other woods will chip out because of knots or wild grain.  Besides the high speed of the cutter head the shaper has a reversible motor so we can run the cutter either direction.  With cedar normal cutting is going to blow out the knots so...I’m gonna climb cut.

CAUTION...Climb cutting has to be done with a power feeder for safety...no exceptions.

Stock is being fed from right to left.  Cutter rotation is clockwise.  Make sure the cutter is on the arbor properly aligned and the shaft is rotating in the right direction...cutters tend to burn the wood if ya get it backward.  And don’t ask how I know this.

So I ran maybe 1200 feet of random width “V” panels this morning.  Zero defects due to chip out and the quality is as good as it gets.  I also have a planer/moulder, router table, and old 4 head moulder...the shaper gets the nod every time when the highest quality work is required.  The big drawback is the shaper is slow...but I have lots more time than money.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Few scraps stuck together so you can see what I’m talking bout.

Few more words on safety...make sure clamps, knobs, and feeder are all tight.  Feeder in the right direction, arbor rotation right, cutter on right, and the correct motor speed for the cutter.  Double check your set up...and if it don't feel safe...don't do it.



 

[Dana]

Larry, Can you explain what climb cutting is?

[Larry]

I’ll try...iffen I miss something you smart guys help me out.
 



Drew a quick picture of conventional cutting.  It works well with sharp cutters, straight grain wood, and hand held feeding.  A problem arises with some wood because the cutter can pull a big splinter out of the wood being fed resulting in an ugly.  Most common with highly figured wood or splintery wood.  To eliminate this possibility we can reverse the cutter head rotation and cut into the wood...no chance for a splinter or for the cutter to pull a knot out.  With the cutter head running in this direction it has a tendency to “climb” the stock...hence the name.  Climb cuting should never be attempted unless the stock is fed by a machine...stock feeder.  Trust me on this...the stock can be thrown across the room if you feed by hand and also can suck your body parts into the cutter.  I suppose an exception would be using an handheld router with  stationary stock.

[Dana]

Thanks for the explanation. I have a 1 hp harbor Freight shaper that I am still trying going to make use of. I had wondered why it had a forward and reverse switch.

[pigman]

When I climb cut with a hand held router the router will somtimes progress at a lot faster pace than I had planned.

[beav39]

thanks larry great explanation      love that cedar you have there      scot

[oakiemac]

I think I can smell the cedar by just looking at those pictures! Good write up larry. Thanks for sharing.

[Greenie]

I don't see many choices for T&G cutters - the one we bought leaves a square rather than rounded tongue making assembly a little slower. Do you know of any suppliers that might offer a cutter with a rounded tongue?
Great job on the post, we learned by trial and error and fired one board (harmlessly) across the shop while learning about how much we needed a power feeder.

[beav39]

I don't see many choices for T&G cutters - the one we bought leaves a square rather than rounded tongue making assembly a little slower. Do you know of any suppliers that might offer a cutter with a rounded tongue?
Great job on the post, we learned by trial and error and fired one board (harmlessly) across the shop while learning about how much we needed a power feeder.

lots of places to get router bits try grizzly im sure others here know of some places to   be careful whatch that kickback

[Greenie]

Every bit I've checked has a square tongue.

[tomtrees]

Just what I would like to do in the near future Larry.
Dare I ask what “V” panels are ?

Tom trees

[Larry]

Woodworkers either try to hide there joinery or emphasis it.  In the work I showed it would be hard to hide the joints between the boards so a “V” groove is cut between the boards.  In wider boards such as car siding I’ve even seen a fake “V” groove.

Flooring is another example.  Solid wood flooring has a tongue and groove but after the floor is laid it is sanded so the joints are unnoticed.  Pre-finished engineered flooring many times has that “V” groove so any irregularity between boards won’t be noticed.

[taw6243]

I don't see many choices for T&G cutters - the one we bought leaves a square rather than rounded tongue making assembly a little slower. Do you know of any suppliers that might offer a cutter with a rounded tongue?
Great job on the post, we learned by trial and error and fired one board (harmlessly) across the shop while learning about how much we needed a power feeder.

https://woodtechtooling.com/

[woodbowl]

I've joined the shaper club.    Oh, it's just a little Sears 1/2 hp, but it's hd cast and is on a stand. I'm trying to run a little t&g and some of it's turning out and some of it isn't. I don't have a feeder or hold down rollers, so it's all by hand. After running the boards through the planer, some of them still have a bow and don't lay flat on the shaper table. Actually, a lot of this wood is probably going to have a bow, it's sweetgum. I really want to make it work because it's so nice. They are 3/4" rough, and finish out at 1/2" to 9/16". Hopefully it's not too thin to t&g. My cutters are 1/4" tongue, leaving 1/8" on each side. A "V" edge would be nice. 

I know there has to be a few tricks to running substandard wood. I'm thinking about the possiblities of running it crown down, keeping the face side in contact with the table. Your thoughts please.

[Lanier_Lurker]

When I climb cut with a hand held router the router will somtimes progress at a lot faster pace than I had planned.

If you want to really have some fun, do some climb cutting on a table saw.  I found myself in this situation by accident one time, and quickly realized I might have gotten disoriented.   

At least the piece I was cutting did not go flying across the yard, but it almost got yanked out of my hands.  I was notching a homemade piece of step-down molding and was running it along the top of the fence.

Machine feed when doing climb cuts is probably the only way to do it safely.

[pineywoods]

I hear you on the power feed. I have a cheap and dirty project in the works to make one. A small cheap belt sander with a coarse belt. OK it runs too fast, feed power to it through one of the little electronic boxes used to vary the speed on a router. Still have to figure out a mounting system.

[beenthere]

Lanier
Trying to figure how you 'climb' cut on a table saw?  Feeding it from the back side is best I can figure. 

[brdmkr]

Anybody ever thought about making a powerfeed from a gear motor?  I have one that turns 48 RPM with lots of torque.  Seems like it ought to be doable.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Lanier
Trying to figure how you 'climb' cut on a table saw?  Feeding it from the back side is best I can figure. 

Exactly.

[woodhick]

Larry thanks for the info.  I have made some paneling for my shop out of poplar like this but I did not use and auxillary fence the way you did.  I jointed one edge  ripped cut the groove and then cut the tongue.  I like the way you use the extra fence to set the final width also.

[park ranger]

I just got done with putting cedar wainscoting in my living room.  I used a bead on one side of the boards with no groove or overlap at all.  The bead hides any gap that might form (even a 1/16").  I ran it all through my shaper that I traded for a waist high stack of cedar boards.  Compared to flooring where the exact width is important the wainscoting went up fast. 

[woodbowl]

  I used a bead on one side of the boards with no groove or overlap at all.  The bead hides any gap that might form (even a 1/16"). 

What kind of bead PR? What is the shape of it? Sounds fast.

[park ranger]

 Hi woodbowl,  I think the radius of the bead is about 3/16", it's a cutter that I bought from harbor fraight.  I have to get the camera and take some pictures.  I got a old growth cedar snag about 3' that I cut it out of.  It went from log to wall in about 3 weeks.  I stikered it in the living room and when it got down to about 8% I planed it and then ripped it for exact width on the table saw.  I'll see about pictues tomorrow.