Author Topic: What is a chain? (Read 2651 times)

Tom · « **on:** June 08, 2006, 11:48:33 pm »

Do Foresters still use chains for measurement?

Where did Rods come from?

Texas Ranger · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2006, 11:56:21 pm »

Yes, we do, 66 foot, and on a regular basis. Even still have some of the Spanish land grant "veras" that have to be translated.

As far as rod, only ones using it now that I know of are the pipeline and timber companies when they argue over damages.

The length is equal to the standardized length of the ox goad used by medieval English ploughmen; fields were measured in acres which were one chain (four rods) by one furlong (in the United Kingdom, ten chains).

Because the furlong was "One Plough's Furrow Long" and a furrow was the length a plough team was to be driven without resting, the length of the furlong and the acre vary regionally, nominally due to differing soil types. In England the acre was 4,840 square yards, but in Scotland it was 6,150 square yards and in Ireland 7,840 square yards. In all three countries, fields were divided in acres and thus the furlong became a measure commonly used in horse racing, archery, and civic planning.

Bars of metal one rod (16.5 feet) long were used as standards of length in surveying land in the past. One example of a surveyor's rod is a one piece metal bar encased in a cylindrical canvas tube (to keep the sun from heating it and making it increase in length) with a piece of the semiprecious gemstone jasper at each end of the rod (to prevent wear of the metal bar).

The rod is still in use as a unit of measure in certain specialised fields. In recreational canoeing, maps measure portages (overland paths where canoes must be carried) in rods. This is thought to persist due to the rod approximating the length of a typical canoe. In the United Kingdom, the sizes of allotment gardens continue to be measured in rods.

The rod was in still in use as a common unit of measurement in the mid-1800s, when Henry David Thoreau used it frequently when describing distances in his work Walden.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2006, 05:46:39 am »

Chains were literally chains with links. 100 links per chain. The problem with metal chains is that they change distance as the weather changes.

I worked on a property that was originally laid out in the 1790s. The owner wanted to have the property surveyed and hired a local surveyor. He converted all the rods, and perches over to the footage, then proceeded to measure with a laser.

On the walkaround, he said he couldn't find the corners where they were supposed to be, so he put in new ones. Meanwhile, there were several obvious old corners that were close by, but he wouldn't tie in to those. Old technology vs new technology.

Some guys just shouldn't be in the woods.

crtreedude · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2006, 07:03:53 am »

I am very curious on the veras - down here - we measure in varas (and being Spanish, I assume that it is similar)

How long is a veras? Ours is 33 inches if I recall correctly.

crtreedude · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2006, 07:04:42 am »

By the way, 3 varas = 99 inches which is a good size for cutting rough lumber - when you want it to eventually be 8 feet.

moosehunter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:03:42 pm »

What is an acre in the US? In feet, yards and rods?

Ron Scott · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2006, 05:08:59 pm »

An acre is : 208.71 feet x 208.71 feet = 43,560 Sq. feet

or: 10 sq. chains
160 Rods
4,840.0 sq. yards

Phorester · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2006, 08:43:41 pm »

The 66 foot length of a chain is very handy for our American measurements. Take that 66 and play around with it. There are 80 chains in one mile. There are 10 square chains in one acre. 4 rods in a chain. 22 yards in a chain, etc.

Measuring acres is easy using chains. Foresters measure how many of their paces ( a pace = 2 steps) are in a chain. Then you can pace off the length and width of, say, a field. Multiply length times width in chains, then divide by 10. You now have the acres of that field. Ex; you've paced off a field that is 6 chains long by 4 chains wide. 6 x 4 = 32 square chains. Dividing by 10 square chains in an acre equals 3.2 acres.

Texas Ranger · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2006, 09:26:02 pm »

CRTreedude, same veras, and we still knash our teeth over some of the old surveys.

Corley5 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2006, 10:04:32 pm »

Using chains you can use your vehicles odometer to determine acreage. I've done it many times in wildlife openings

TeaW · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2006, 05:13:13 pm »

A chain is the width of a road allowance (township) around here.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2006, 05:28:45 pm »

I prefer metric, hactres and metres. 10000 m^2 = 1 ha.

1 acre ~ 0.4 ha = 50 x 80 m = 200 x 20 m

When thinning we use a term called a point. It's 1/10th or 0.1 ha, so 0.4 ha is 4 points. 2 to 2.5 tanks of gas per point cut is a thinner's guestimate of the ground he cuts in a day. It also gives me a guage in determining whether someone worked 4 hours or 8 that day.

timcosby · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2006, 01:29:23 am »

ron,
that surveyor sholda been run outta town. i am a surveyor here in alabama and we have some of them "the distance has to be what it says" surveyors. surveying is an art not a science and that is the hardest thing to get the new surveyors to understand. everyone who has mentored under me wanted an exact formula for where the pin should be (2+2=4). just doesn't work that way. you have to use all available evidence to form an opinion where it should be and that evidence might be the 90 year old neighbor who says "the pin was by that rock when i was a kid" even though it is 200' off of the recorded distance and bearing. the original corners control location regaurdless of any recorded distances or bearings. o.k. stepping off my soapbox now carry on.

as a side note all of the 1/4 sections were supposed to be 1320' (1/4 mile) around here they are all around 1330'. on the old chains there was a handel where the chainman held the chain. the markers for the deginning and end of the 66' were about 6 " in from the handel. what i think happened they were surveying along, hot, swampy, bugs bitting, indians etc, the chainman would hold the stake and the handel in one hand and hammer with the other therby giving more than 66' each chain length which works out to roughly 1330'.

and about the indians they were not stupid savages, they knew that the line of blazes on the sides of the trees meant boundaries. proof of this i found in some of the old surveyors notes, they were running the parallel that is now the top of florida around mobile bay trying to retrace a prior survey party and noted all the trees were blazed for 2000' or so on both sides of the line they were trying to verify.

getoverit · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:00:21 am »

any idea why the chinese are now producing 33' tape measures?

I bought one the other day for $2... still dont understand why it is 33' and not 25' like all the others...

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:27:45 am »

They are most probably producing 10 metre tapes as well using the same tape length with metric markings.

Alta · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2006, 10:10:44 am »

Phorester makes a great point. Play with the math and you find out all kinds of interesting things: like why a township is that size, why a section is that size (and 1/4s and 1/4 1/4s), how many acres in a square mile, ect. its the basis for modern surveying in the US and a very handy increment, not to mention fun to play with.

I like to answer the question about how big an acres is with 66' x 660' since that is 10 square chains and easy to conceptualize in terms of surveying and uses numbers readily adaptable to an individual problem.

Also remember that surveying is all done in horizonntal distance so you have to factor in slope and make correcttions - another part of the art...

crtreedude · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2006, 10:21:34 am »

Okay Swampy

How much is a manzana? No, not the red kind!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2006, 06:31:26 pm »

$0.59 a pound. No wait, that's banana's at the local grocer.

crtreedude · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2006, 08:09:51 pm »

I should have seen that one coming...

Manzana = 7,000 square meters.

jayfed · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2006, 11:06:55 pm »

And lets add the "Tally" to the mesurements. 5 chains equal 1 tally, 16 tallys equal one mile.

A tally is 330' which I think is the outside measurements of a football field past the goal posts. I normally tell people that 1 tally is about hundred yards. Loggers can relate to yards quite well. I finally noticed in the catalogs that 330' tapes are being made. Why did it take so long?

I think I use tallys more often than chains for my 10 acre marking grids on my base field maps. Keeps my daily acreage more accurate, better planning, and allows for easier placement of older unmapped roads/ other info in the field.

Interestly, the placement of the older roads from the horse and early dozer days are spaced about 2 tally apart unless there is a physical limitation. And company base map given to me having shown roads being over 4 tally apart is just about sure to have a road in between.

Though pacing varies among people, a chain tends to be about 12 paces (2 step) long. I now use 13 paces to keep my walk smoother. Come snowshoe season, extreme differences in snow conditions can alter my pace amount, i.e. hard crust vs. deep semi-fluff.

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Author Topic: What is a chain? (Read 2651 times)