Rodent resistant seedlings

[whitepine]

Took a good look at last years plantings now that the snow is gone. White spruce 90% survival Red Pine 90% tamarack 90% Jack Pine 5% deer Whitepine 20% deer  Ash, Red oak, Yellow Birch, Sugar maple, Red maple, chestnut and walnut all less than 5% survived planted in  old pasture field most damage done buy rodents. Contacted DNR rodent specialist and he had no suggestion short of turning area into toxic waste dump I was wondering if there are hardwoods rodents will not gurdle like there are pines deer do not like? Tried planting whips already and the deer  came and pulled them out of ground or severly  damaged them. Using bitrix and Deerskyd ( DNR specialist said they were not working after about two years the deer are eating them anyway) I have my own deer program  really interested in hardwoods  for northern MN that the mice/voles are not interested in any suggestions?

[beenthere]

The last field I planted to wh pine, wh. ash, and red oak, with spruce intermixed, I sprayed roundup around each tree the first year, and kept the rest mowed short. That was only about 5 acres. I think that short grass gave the hawks a good shot at the mice. So far, no mouse damage.

Deer had a feast on the wh. pine, ash, and red oak. One winter I sprayed on the egg stuff, and clogged up a good Solo sprayer with the slime. The next year, I stapled paper popcorn sacks on the main stem covering the terminal bud.  The sacks seemed to survive the wind, snow, rain and sleet well into spring when the buds flushed. Now the buds at the top are above the deer browse line for most of the oaks, but they really still like chewing on the wh ash like a salad line.  Every year the bucks take out a dozen or two trees and rip them to shreds.

[SteveB]

Beenthere: What's "the egg stuff"?

Whitepine:  Do you mean that the bitrix worked for two years and then would need re-application?

[beenthere]

SteveB
Name is Deer-Away^R Big Game Repellant Liquid Spray Concentrate 2103. 
Comes as two ingredients that need to be well mixed at time of application.
One is "Pasteurized inedible whole egg solids" and the other is "White mineral oil"

Physical data says there is an odor of "fermented egg".   

[Phorester]

WHITEPINE, to my knowledge there are no hardwood seedlings that rodents or deer won't girdle.

When we plant hardwoods here, we always use tree shelters for physical protection from deer, ground hogs, rabbits.  Problem with voles and mice is that they will burrow up underneath the shelters.

I've gone to recommending to my landowners that they plow and disk old farm fields before planting to get rid of the thick grass cover that voles and mice live in.  Plowing and disking both.  Convert it to bare dirt.  Then of course you get all sorts of invasives growing there too, but I'd rather have 40 acres of thistle, for example, than 40 acres of voles.  The invasives can be controlled. A large popluation of voles cannot. 

[whitepine]

Hi The Bitrix has to be applied every couple of months.  Just thought that since deer do not like spruce here maybe there was something the mice would not eat.  Put some hybrid poplar in as a test today that should be it for tree planting seedlings this year.  Went to tree nursery today and returned containers and they use poisons and still had problems this year only suggestion nonchemical is  poles for hawks and mowing.  They have more deer there than I do and now they are starting on their spruce trees so far the deer dont touch them here. DNR said deer eat what they are taught to eat by their  mothers!!! so it will vary from area to area.

[Phorester]

Yesterday I looked at a 60 acre cornfield that had been converted to loblolly pine 2 years ago.  The corn field had been plowed every year forever.  When it was planted with the pine seedlings, it was pretty much bare dirt with a thin cover of annual weeds.

The landowner called and said his pines were turning brown.  Sure enough, it is voles.  Even in this bare dirt environment, the natural plant succession of annual weeds has created enough cover that voles are now flourishing in a few spots.

Very discouraging.  I thought plowing and disking would stop the voles from living in these old fields.  I'm about to give up on old field plantings here until the voles hopefully run their course in a few years.  Tell the landowners to delay planting.  Problem is then they will have done something else with the field, so a new forest will not materalize.

[whitepine]

Just a guess but I think in a situation like that  poison would work on voles and mice thats what they use in the nursery where I buy my seedlings from. I would not use it on my farm as affraid of what else I would kill and what would eat the dead rodents