SOAP Drying Experiment

[Radar67]

I finally got around to starting my experiment discussed in the Boiling Wood post. This is just the first part of the experiment. I picked out a piece of Beech set to go to the firewood pile as my test subject. The wood has been cut for 8 months. I cut the end checking out and cut each piece 6 inches long.



The first piece has a small void in the center, this will be my latex paint test.



Here you can see the other end.



I put two coats of latex paint on each end and marked the side to distinguish from some other pieces I have drying.







The other piece is my SOAP test subject. I coated each end with three coats of a generic brand dish soap, mixed 25 ounces of soap to 50 ounces of water. This piece does not have any cracks or checks even though it looks like it in the picture.









I plan to let them dry for a week initially then repost pictures of the surfaces. I will continue weekly checks and updates for at least 3 months.

I also plan to rough turn another piece of this same wood and submerge it in the soap solution for 3 days. At the same time I will rough turn one and let it dry naturally.

Stew

[beenthere]

That looks very interesting. Not boiling any at this time apparently,  eh?

Where did you get the soap idea?  If here, I missed it. 

[Radar67]

Beenthere, check out reply 16 in the boiling post, I have a link there for the Soap idea. I plan to try the boiling process, but have to find a pot big enough for the spearment.  The wife won't let me get out of the house with one of her's 

Stew

[beenthere]

I did that. VERY interesting link.
And will be very interested in your results too. 

[Max sawdust]

Stew,
All eyes are watching
Look forward to the results.
Max

[woodbowl]

Stew, I need to try something like this in the future on some bowls. It is so heartbreaking to spend a lot of time making a bowl only to have it bust open from drying. I just thought of a very good test bed for the soap solution. Everyone has probably cut 1" cookies while playing around, bucking fire wood. I have, and I've noticed that a lot of them check open, especially if they are left in the sun. Wouldn't it be wonderfull if regular ole' dish soap was as good as "PEG"?

[beenthere]

Your idea of a 'test bed' of wood 'cookies' is a good one. Maybe someone will try that as well, leaving some treated and some untreated as a control.

[Dan_Shade]

i tested a cookie once with anchor seal, it still busted, but it took it a while

[Radar67]

Olen, have you tried rough shaping the bowls first? That way if they crack, you don't have as much time invested.

I plan to rough turn a couple of blanks and let one dry naturally and the other will be submerged in the soap. I'll make sure I let everyone know when that pahase starts.

Stew

[woodbowl]

    I've roughed and boiled and soaked and spaulted and selected species and times of year and .......
I've tried so many things that the new info is far and few between. I'm willing to try anything at this point, no matter how dumb it may sound. 

[iain]

Woodbowl

what do you do with the bowls that split?


iain

[woodbowl]

   iain, I used to throw them away, burn them in the heater, give them away to friends and use them for dog food dishes. In the past few years, I roughed up the edges and sanded it back down real smooth, to make it look very old and used, ....... splits and all!
   Now, instead of picking through my bowls searching for the perfect, uniform, straight grained, no knots and other so called flaws ........ folks now pick through looking for the bowl with the most character. The split has now became a desired feature. I like the variety and don't like to see them go but I can't keep them all.
    Got an auction comming up. Stay tuned!

[iain]

That was the reply i was hopping to hear

good work



iain

[CHARLIE]

I've used the soap soaking method for several years now and have had very few bowl blanks that cracked after the soaking.  I use the cheapest dishwashing detergent (not the stuff for dishwashers) I can find and mix it 1:1 ratio with water in a 5 gallon plastic pail.  The guy that discovered the process is a woodturner in Hawaii, but I can't remember his name right now. He says to soak the bowl for a day but I add a couple of days for the heck of it. Then I take them out and let them dry before turning.  The wood is still green though so expect your bowl to go a little oval on you as the wood is still moving.  One thing I don't care for is that I can smell the dish detergent after it is dried.....if I stick my nose right up to the wood.

Now there is a process going around to soak your bowl blank in alcohol to keep it from splitting. I haven't tried that yet but I'm going to........someday.

When I have a split in a bowl, it's a perfect opportunity to either fill it with colored epoxy, a solution of epoxy and colored plastic, turquoise, or glitter......or a contrasting piece of wood.  I tend to let the cracked ones sit around awhile 'cause I have to be in the mood to mess with it.

[woodbowl]

Charlie, have you ever tried letting the soaked bowl dry a little, and just before it cracked, resoak it, then start the drying process again? That would be interesting to know.

[CHARLIE]

I have not tried this but have read that other turners have had success by doing the following with a cracked bowl.  Not a huge crack though.

Soak the cracked bowl in a solution of 50:50 yellow carpenter's glue and water.  This is supposed to swell the crack shut and when it dries it'll be glued together.  Someday I'm gonna try it.

[Radar67]

WEEK 1 UPDATE:

Well, one week has passed since the experiment started. The blanks were stored in my insulated shed so they were not exposed to high heat or sun light. Below are pictures of both ends of both blanks.





In the first picture, the soap blank has a small crack at the 10 o'clock position. It is marked but it is very faint.

The second picture, the painted blank has a crack marked in the middle. I don't think anything would have prevented that one. The soap picture shows 3 cracks. Again, I don't think anything would have prevented the center crack. The outside cracks are noticaable, but not very deep yet.

We'll see where they stand in the next week.

Stew

[low_48]

One of the latest techniques to hit the turners groups is to soak a roughed out bowl in denatured alcohol while drying. It is not as nasty as the soap and water for stuff "growing" in the water. It also dries out faster when you bring it out. In theory the bound water and alcohol mix and evaporate at a faster rate with the alcohol. I think you might want to half those log sections for your drying tests. The idea of drying a complete log section runs in the same class as snake oil. The shrinkage is nearly impossible to handle. A half log section is much more likely to survive. Good luck.

[Radar67]

Low, you have a good point, but considering these blanks are only about 6 inches across, I decided to leave them whole.

On to WEEK 2 UPDATE:

Since the blanks started cracking last week, I decided to round them up to get them ready for turning. The untreated blank will continue to dry as it is now. Once rough turned, the soap blank was submerged in a 50/50 soap/water solution for 32 hours.



The first picture the blank is still in the solution. The second shows it after draining for about 10 minutes. I could not see any cracks in it. There may be some small ones, but they are undetectable with the wood wet. I will let this blank dry with the untreated one from here on out for a minimum of 8 weeks.



The second set of pictures is the untreated blank. Both ends were pictured to show the cracks that are developing, mainly in the end labeled "no treat". The cracks at 6 and 8 o'clock are noticable. They are not wide or deep, but still cracks.



Above are a couple of shots of another Beech bowl I'm working on. It came from the same stock as my test material. I just had to see what it looked like. The tree it came from is over 100 years old, the branch this material came from had over 50 countable rings. This shot is after the third coat of hand wiped finish and water sanding to 400 grit. I'll put the next coat on later this evening.

Another week to wait. 

Stew

[MotorSeven]

Stew,

Wow, the bowls look awesome, nice job! I gotta learn how to do that.....i'll just add it to the list . Ever use Tung oil? I used to build humidors and since i don't like the shiney finishes, used to rub in 3-4 coats of tung with sanding between the coats. I like the soft sheen, and the ability to repaire any scratches easily.

RD