Table Saw Recommendation

[Norm]

I want to move up to a cabinet saw, been using a powermatic model 63 and would like to buy a model 66 to replace it with. Have heard some mixed reviews on them since they were bought by wmh and would like to hear what others think of them or any other model that would be in the same class.

I'm also going to buy a new shaper and wonder if you folks would have a suggestion on make and model for one.

Thanks,
Norm

[woodbeard]

IMHO, Powermatic sells mainly on it's name these days. A lot of their machines are made overseas, and are on a par with ones you can get for far less money. The 66 has been one of their flagship models, though, and they would really be shooting themselves in the foot to cheapen it. Personally, even if the quality of the 66 has remained the same, I would still opt for the Delta Unisaw, if it is still of the same quality. The price is better, and it is a fantastic machine, maybe not quite as tough as the 66, but plenty tough for anything I can imagine putting it through. My Unisaw was built in the mid 1940's, and still going strong. I replaced the original 1 horse motor with a 3 horse Baldor ( 3hp is standard issue these days )
I work the fire out of that saw, and it cuts true all the time.

[ohsoloco]

I was just reading some back issues of my woodworking magazines, and I remember looking over a review of cabinet saws.  The article is probably a couple years old, but the powermatic came out at the top of the list if I remember correctly   

[bitternut]

If I was you Norm I would opt for the General tablesaw and shaper. They make real high quality machines. I have their tablesaw and its a great machine. Their shaper and jointer are on my wish list.

Whatever saw you get put a Biesemeyer fence on it. It will make even a crapsman a good saw. My saw came with one and its been right on the money since the day I first set it up. Best fence on the market IMHO.

[sawwood]

 Norm i like the pm 66 but for the what you pay you could git a cabinet
 saw and shaper from Grizzly. I have looked at both at there Springfield
 store and i think they are on par with Delta. Even the guy i know that
 works for Delta repair center has said it was on the same quilty. I need
 a 8" jointer and i know i am going to buy the Grizzly for sure.

 Sawwood

[Larry]

First full time job was in a cabinet shop way back in ‘66.  Got to run a General, PM-66, and a Uni.  Never liked the 66.  The General and Unisaw were a tossup.  I preferred the Unisaw.

Update to 2005...got to run a Grizzly cabinet saw for 3 days of hard use.  Really liked it and think it is the value leader.  Really hard for me to say but...it is better than the ‘73 Unisaw that sits in my shop.

Think I bought my Delta 3 HP heavy duty shaper bout ‘95.  It has been a workhorse with zero problems and I like it.  Delta stretched the truth a little when they called it heavy duty...IMO a shaper is not heavy duty until your running 1-1/4 spindles.  Never ran any other brands so I can’t rate it against other machines.

[srt]

Finally a post I feel qualified to reply to.  I'm a cabinetmaker by trade.  I own a wm mill I'll be learning to use soon.  About the table saw....  I use a PM-66 with a biesmeyer fence and a unisaw with a unifence every day in a 2 man cabinet shop.  Generally, the unisaw is used for ripping, and the pm has a sled on it for crosscutting.  However, we'll often do just the opposite if the other fellow is using the other saw and I need to do the opposite operation.  I honestly can't say I prefer one over the other.  The unisaw is 40's vintage, the pm 70's.  Both are 3 phase.  I do have a preference for the unifence, because I find it more versatile.  However, there are good cabinet makers who swear by the biesmeyer fence as the greatest.  The pm feels like a more stout piece of equipment, but also seems to be louder.  The unisaw seems to be a little smoother, but those observations may just be due to those individual saws (wear, play, slop etc.), and not due to them being a pm or a unisaw.  If I needed another cabinet saw tomorrow, I'd give preference to the one that had the unifence and the one priced less.  If I was going to use the saw for rough work, I'd buy the saw that weighed the most regardless of brand (like an old oliver, Northfield, or something like that)  I also own an old darra james cabinet saw with a unifence on it, and it generally is just as nice as the unisaw, but only cost me a couple hundred bucks.  The down side to the darra james is that the arbor is 3/4", where the standard today for 10" saws is 5/8", so I need to use a bushing.  If you can afford the room, get the 52" fence.  It will allow you to cut wider stuff, and the fence itself is longer, which is nice.   Left or right tilt is an issue you may want to think about.  Imagine pushing a stick through the saw with the blade tilted and figure out which you would be most comfortable with.  Hope this helps!

[brdmkr]

I recently purchased a Grizzly 1023.  It was used, but I got a deal .  It will likely be the best buy I have ever gotten on a tool.  I bought a mule cab fence and the fence cost more than the saw .  I haven't had it long, but it is a really sweet saw.  It has plenty of power and runs smooth .  However, it is 8 or 9 years old and was made in Taiwan.  New ones are made in China.  I don't know if that really matters that much or not.  I hear some people complain, but I have never seen any real proof that the Chinese machines were of any less quality.

[GareyD]

I've had a 5hp unisaw with 50" unifence and have used and abused it for the last 10 years....one of my best friends has a Grizzly with the beismeyer I've used a few times and it is a great saw also...

If ya are in the market for a couple of great stationary tools ya might check out the link below

Redmond Tools

They carry most all major brands and about anything ya might need New & Used....if ya see a used one on the website, PM me and I'll run over and take some pictures and check it out close for ya

They have a whole roomful of factory reconditioned Unisaws with unifence for $1,499

[TexasTimbers]

I had a G1023 with a sliding attachment. They are about the best bang for the buck I know of - you can't really go wrong. When they first introduced them some of the saws had some pretty crude defects like the cast wings not being flush with the table top when you attached them. I don't see any bad write ups in any of the WW mags anymore though. Most all of Grizzly's bigger stuff rates "Editors Choice" or "Best Buy" or real close to the top whenever it get reviewed any more. I don't think you can go wrong.
Having said all that, I've been hunting hard lately for an older big machine. I want a Oliver 260D and have found many but everyone wants an arm and a private part for one. Then the shipping would be another $500+.  I'm trading emails with a retired boatbuilder who has an 18" JC that tickles my fancy. I was even looking at new stuff like the Lobo 16" machine but know nothing about it and can't find a single review online.
I found a 14" dual arbor but he wants too much for it. Dual arboirs are pretty much obsolete anymore anyhow with the kind of blade quality we now have. I don't have to have one immediatley so I can afford to wait for a super deal. Sounds like you have the itch too bad to do that.

I have to agree with the guys who say look at Grizzly. You can get both a saw and shaper for about the same price as a Unisaw. And I don't thnk the Unisaw offers anything noticably better for a cool Gee.

[Norm]

I want to thank all of you folks for your thoughts, making up my mind on what to get has been tough. I looked at the grizzly's but had heard some poor reviews on their table saw when they first started selling them many years ago. When I got Patty's jointer from them I was pleasantly surprised by how well made it was but still have not seen one of their newer models of cabinet saws. That's the problem with being out in the middle of nowhere, you have to drive so far to see one in person so your stuck with reading the reviews in magazines. The same mags that carry their advertising so I'm never sure how unbiased they are.

Gary thanks for the link, they have factory reconditioned deltas for a good price. I'm going to call them today and see which models they have in stock.

On the shaper I'm leaning pretty hard towards the grizzly model. Boy what a jump in price between the 3hp and 5hp models, of course the 5hp has the 1 1/4 spindles. I'm leaning towards the 3hp so I can afford a power feeded to go with it but wonder if I'm better off with the 5hp.

I sold my extra pickup and told Patty I was going to spend the money on better woodworking tools. Darn money is burning a hole in my pocket.

[TexasTimbers]

Make sure and tell what you get,the minute you get it! I will too.

    

[OneWithWood]

Norm, I would love to report on my new Grizzly 1023 and 8"planer.  Unfortunately even though I ordered the machines in early Februaury neither has shown up.  The latest word from Grizz is maybe the middle of this month.  I am not sure what the hold up is.  It could be because I ordered a left hand tilt with router table 1023.  Who knows 
The good part of all this is that I won't have the doors on the barn finished until mid April so when the machines do show up they can go right into the barn and not sit in the workshop waiting for me to finish the barn 

[Ga_Boy]

A few years back I had a Uni saw on order.  I found Wilke Machainery and the Bridgewood line.  I cancelled the Uni saw and bought the Bridgewood.

The trunion is cast iorn the all saw adjustments are built into the trunion and are made aginst cast iorn stops.

This is one heavy beast and works well.  A selling factor for me was Wilke sold me the saw less the fence, I also bought the Incra 52" fence and installed it new on the Bridgewood.

Here is the link to Wilke:

http://www.wilkemachinery.com

my 2 cents......

[Norwiscutter]

I think that the extrema table saws might warrent a look as well, considering they are reputed to build their equipment pretty heavy duty as well.

[ohsoloco]

I took another peek at that article, just to see if I was correct...I wasn't       While the two people reviewing the saws said the powermatic was pretty heavy duty, one of the guys recommended the Delta Unisaw, while the other was in favor of the Jet    This article was written in 1999, however 

[woodhick]

I have a delta unisaw and their 3hp HD shaper.  I bought them both new in 86 and have never had any problems with either one.  I not say the others are not as good just most of my shop is delta or  old iron.  Good luck with whatever you buy.

[scsmith42]

I've got a 12" Grizzly table saw, and have not had any problems whatsoever with it.

Also have the 3hp Grizzly shaper.  It works fine, but if I had it to do over again I'd get the 5hp model so I could go shape faster and with larger cutters. 

Budget a power feeder for the shaper.  The "baby power feeder" works fine with the 3hp shaper.

To me, Grizzly offers the  most bang for your buck for new woodworking equipment (with the caveat being "new").  I have a lot of their bigger stuff for doing rough cut timber frame type work (20" spiral cutterhead planer, 16" spiral cutterhead jointer, 24" resaw bandsaw).  I have not had any problems with any of it.

Scott

[Norm]

Thanks again for the advice folks, I'm leaning towards the grizzly 5hp shaper with a good power feeder. I've got to remember to call the folks Gary mentioned for the reconditioned Deltas, otherwise I'll probably get a grizzly table saw too.

[Norm]

Scott I just noticed you said that you had the 20" spiral head planer from grizzly. I'm thinking of selling my 15" jet and getting one. Which model do you have?