My miter saw bought the farm

[beenthere]

Wiam
Sorry if this appears that I am trying to argue with you, but hope if I am wrong that I learn something new.

In this picture, I think I am showing the board behind the saw, such as you have described is the way that you do the sawing on your RAS. As I see it, that board will NOT sit on the table without some serious effort to hold it down when those teeth in that blade engage the upper right corner. It will toss that board up like there is no tomorrow, and it will go flying. And that fence will not hold that board. Now, this is just as I see it. Am I wrong? 
I only persist with this as it seems a very dangerous method of using the RAS is being proposed.




As I normally use my RAS with the board against the fence, and the blade started behind the fence, the board is held by the fence and the teeth begin their cut in a downward motion, pushing the board against the table as well as against the fence. If drawn to fast forward, the blade can climb into the cut and sometimes has to be held back so it is not too agressive.
Here is the normal, and I believe safe position, for starting the saw and the cut across a board. Am I wrong?

[wiam]

Have you ever pushed a ras?  I ahve never had a board lift by pushing.

Will

[beenthere]

How about a picture of you doing it? 

[woodsteach]

Thanks for the great replies.  I just can't imagine pushing a RAS.  I have been teaching high school woodshop for the last 10 years and have always had a RAS and teache the kids " keep your hands 6" away from the blade and you'll have all 10 fingers at the end of the day."

I have had a hard time adjusting to the slidding miter saw with the cut on the return stroke is that what you are talking about with the pushing of a RAS? 

The switch on my Delta is ok it is the "drive belt" connecting the motor to the arbor.  the saw model is 35-080 i think so I'll most likely for now find a belt and replace it. 

I like the different views on RAS safety. 

Paul

[LeeB]

Wiams method is the same method recomended for an SCM, which to me is about the same as an RAS. They to can also climb cut. LeeB

[wiam]

If you have a ras you do not need a pic.  I do it all the time so I do not need a pic.

Will

[slowzuki]

Ok our radial arm saw doesn't look quite like those.  I haven't used it for a long time so I should take a closer look.  Shhh! The last amount of use it has was cutting steel in the garage so it wasn't really being used correctly, but I for sure was pushing the saw as it would climb too bad pulling.

Hmm, maybe the saw can go past and cut pulling, I was using a drill vise bolted to the table at the time.  I'll have to check.

[beenthere]

Yesterday I was cutting some SPF on my radial arm saw, and tried the procedure suggested, just for kicks.

Pulled the saw head out past the fence (seems 'exposed' out there).

Placed the board to be cut and the pencil mark where it was to be cut in position with respect to the stopped blade.

Switched the saw on (blade really seems exposed now !! )

Held the board against the fence, and 'pushed' the saw back, having to adjust slightly so the cut was just at the edge of the mark.
(for sure don't understand how one could just leave the board lay there without holding it, as an accurate cut couldn't be made)

Sawdust went everywhere as there wasn't a direct path back to the vacuum pick-up.

Board didn't rise up, and the saw pushed back with no problem. It was a successful cut.

Would I do it that way again.........Nope.  I like the running saw to be behind the fence when not cutting wood. Seems and feels much safer that way.

I will readily admit that a thick piece making a heavy cut will require a firm hand holding the power head from advancing as the blade works into the cut. If too much, it locks up in the cut.
Y'all are welcome to do as you like best. I will too. 

[isassi]

I can see it working both ways, but why? It wasn't designed that way. But I am with you beenthere, whatever floats your boat. When a milling machine cuts like a RAS is supposed to cut, it is called "climb milling" or trying to pull the cutter up and on or through the cut. The RAS depends on the operator controlling the speed of the cut and most RAS's will stall out if you let it go. A really powerful old Dewalt or similar would probably come right after you, hence the extream danger of RAS's in general.

The number one failing I have seen in RAS users is cutting long stock and failing to support the stock, cutting through and then having the board under the RAS head up against the saw, and trying to get a hand in there to hold it down and the saw "bites" and jumps back forward again. I have personally never seen anyone hurt doing this, but many close calls. I have seen guys have lots of close calls with table saws also, using a miter gauge with a rip fence and getting a board in the face...usually only takes once, but there will be some slow learners and maybe serious injuries....like I said earlier, power tools all have a degree of DANGER!

[Don P]

The blades Larry was talking about make a big difference in climbing, or not climbing on a radial arm. I did try Wiam's way with my saw, no problem, I would say more controlled than "normal".

This is the innards of a simple gravity return chopsaw.I've oversimplified it but the thing was shop built and quite simple. I added a bungee return. The fence was toward the operator and a channel shaped guard covered the blade path, leaving a slot to feed the wood through.

[woodbeard]

So, with the "push" method, what happens if your board is as wide as the saw will cut? Do you lower the spinning blade into it, and then push?
The only reason I would want a radial arm saw again is so I can cut real wide stuff. I had a 12" Dewalt RAS, about 50 or 60 years old. Great machine, but a bit of a pain to set up for compound cuts. I found most of the time, I was not pulling the saw, but holding it back at a reasonable feed rate. When it did get out of control, it would usually just stall the motor. Usually, this would be in a wider board, and due to the cut closing up from tension in the board.
Anyhow, I sold the RAS, and bought a sliding miter saw, and am much happier with it. Wide cuts still close up and want to pinch the blade, but now I can lift it out of the cut, and start from another point. I don't have the same width capacity, but a sliding jig on the tablesaw does fine for my wider cuts, which are usually in shorter stock, anyway. The only thing I miss the RAS for is on real wide, real long planks. But that's what I have a chainsaw for, eh?

[DanG]

Which slider did ya buy, George?  Would you buy the same one again?

[woodbeard]

I got the Dewalt DW708. I would absolutely get it again, but I think they phased it out. The new model ( DW718 ) looks even better, and can crosscut up to 16". If you can still find the old one, you can probably get a real good deal on one.
I had a job recently where I had to cut 3x4 valley rafter ends for a 16/12 pitch roof. I think it was like 53deg. miter at a 45 deg. bevel. It was nice to not have to do that with a skilsaw.

[beenthere]

DanG
Here is a thread OneWithWood started a while back on the subject.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17049.0

I also have the DeWalt 708 and have been real pleased with it's performance. I especially like the handle being cross-wise, and not vertical. Seems easier to grab that way to me.

[DanG]

My el-cheapo slider got here today.  I gotta say, for the money I spent, I'm impressed!  I set it for a 45° cut, then checked it against my speed square and it was right on.  All the adjustments are easy to use, and the slide works smoothly.  The guard has a rack and pinion mechanism that moves it out of the way, then covers the blade completely when you raise it back up.  In short, I checked it out every way I could think of and it passed all the tests.  The only thing left to worry about is durability.  If it survive's this house project, I'll consider it a well-spent $200.

[steveo_1]

I think Don P has the best answer here.
(At the shop we switched to Whirlwind Chop saws with rollertable infeed and outfeed and adjustable backstops. Check the used dealers, you'll never look back.)
This saw will beat the production of any RAS and soon pay for itself,a much safer solution too.I used them at the shop i worked at and never saw or heard of any accidents with it from guys who used this saw everyday,many hours at a time.