future mill owner

[rathbone]

Hello all,  I live in west central Wisconsin and I am going to be buying a mill soon and have been reading a lot of info on various mills.  Trying to decide which way to go, swing blade or band mill.  I have had band mills here doing some milling for me on eastern white pine.  I thought it had done a pretty good job until I went to further process it.  The inconsistant board thickness was disapointing, way too much time spent on the planer.  Not sure if I want to pursue a band mill.  I started looking at other mills and came accross the Peterson website.  Through them, Trev Cook specifically, I was able to go see and operate a Peterson ASM, this is truely an amazing piece of equipment.  I now see Lucas mills being talked about on the forum, I will have to check them out as well.  Some questions I have regarding the milling business in general are, what are some of you doing as far as raw materials?

are you buying your own logs and sawing for re-sale?
are you custum sawing for wood lot owners? on your site or theirs?
contract sawing for ties & cants?

I know there a lot of questions that need to be anwsered and any help you could afford me would be greatly appriecated.

Thanks.
 

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Just don't think that inconsistant board thickness is the fault of the mill. The mill only does what the operator tells it to do ??

  We have both a bandmill (Homemade) and a Peterson. I can shave a thin enough slice off with either mill, and the consistancy is as good as I am with setting the cut for whatever I want. Sounds like yout sawyer was in too big a hurry and did some non-precise cutting 

[Part_Timer]

I'm with FDH on this one.  I have a swinger now but have had a band mill.  It would make as bad a board as I'd let it.

Tell us a bit more about what your sawing plans are and what type of suppor equipment you have.  That has a big bearing on the type of mill you get.

Tom

[chassawyers]

I own a LT40 woodmizer and love it.  I bought it new in 1997 and have cut many a board since.  I recently trained a new owner of a LT70 super woodmizer and he was totally intimidated after the first day.  By day three he was zipping out the lumber and solid confident.  The mill you purchase should reflect what you want to cut.  I wanted specialty cuts.  Wide boards!!!  I wanted accurate cut lumber.  After getting my woodmizer adjusted (about a 30 minute process the first time), I cut lumber that is true and accurate to about 1/6 of an inch over 24" wide and 20 feet long.  I can cut veneer 1/8 inch thick.  My wife runs our woodmizer easily.  It sounds like your sawyer was schooled at the "thick and thin" school of cutting.  Or he did not care about accuracy...."good enough" school of cutting.


Spend a couple of days cutting with me and you will love the woodmizer.....if furnture grade and quartersawn is what you are into.  It is one thin blade cutting parallel bed.  What ever saw you plan to buy, spend a day with an owner cutting.  When you get your own saw, hire an experienced sawyer to teach you for a day.  It will be well worth the cost.  Remember, the teaching costs are tax deductable.  

Ever want to visit Louisiana???  Tax deductible trip into plantation country.  Bring a trailer and take home a load of quartersawn oak. ...charlie

[jackpine]

Rathbone

I run a Woodmizer LT40 in the Wisconsin Rapids area primarily custom sawing both on the customers site and at my home. I generally don't buy logs as I find the demand for lumber to be inconsistant and it's difficult to predict what will sell. For me this is a part-time venture so I haven't tried to expand into the selling side.

What has already been said about bandmills is very true, the lumber quality is only as good as the sawyer  and the alignment of his mill.

Eastern white pine can be easy or difficult to saw depending on the log,the temp., how long it's been down, how knotty it is, etc.

If you would like, pm me, I would like to have you come over when I'm sawing some ewp and we can discuss it in detail

Bill

[barbender]

  My bandmill cuts real consistent lumber, if the thickness is off that is my fault.  I have seen bandmilled boards that the thickness varied, say 1" to 1 1/8" from the sawyer either feeding too fast or using a dull blade.  I have also seen swing blades cut  hour glass shaped lumber when they weren't set up right.  The blade gets hot and goes all over the place. The point is you can screw it up no matter what kind of mill you're using.

[Jeff]

All good information so far rathbone, and welcome to the forestry forum. I've been around lumber my whole working life and have come to the conclusion that its ALWAYS the sawyers fault. Sure, its the machine cutting, but its the sawyer that is in control of machine setup maintenance and operation.  Every sponsor on here makes quality machines, be they band mills or double-cut or swingers.  Visit all of them. Order videos, talk to members, but make your decision on what machine you need for the type of sawing you are doing, not because of saw-cut quality.  You will be the sawyer, and you have an information source here to lean on like no other.  I do recommend staying with a Forum sponsor as they are here for you.

[rathbone]

Thanks for the input guys, points are well taken.    I know one local guy thats within 2 miles of me and he swears by the WM as well.  I also know you can get better guides to help keep the blade going straight, but with ewp or any log with large knots, it seems to me, (and I am as green as grass when it comes to milling) that a heavier blade would be less apt to follow the grain.  The two times I had logs cut here on my place were with a WM LT40 HD and both times the lumber came out the same way, wavy.  I will try not to let two bad experiences sour me on band mills and I would have to agree with your assessment that the sawyer was pushing a little too fast as we were being charged by the thousand bf, I supplied all the labor.  Looking back, he probably did quite well.

I was thinking of donig some contract sawing, ties & cants Etc. as well as custom sawing. I have also toyed around with the idea of a solar kiln and producing product for hardwood flooring, but I need to investigate the market before I make that investment.

chass, you say it takes a short time to make the proper adjustments, does it stay adjusted or must it be adjusted periodicaly? and does anybody have any input for adjusting the swinger.

And Jackpine, I may take you up on your offer to come and visit, Rapids is about 90 minutes from here.

And to Jeff B., thank you, you should see the stack of info I have...video and DVD as well, most of its from the sponsers I see here on my left.  You guys are all correct, the sawyer is the largest component for quality lumber.

Thanks !!!!
Rath

[ronwood]

Rath,

Welcome to the forum. Swingers work great for larger logs. Myself I have a bandmill and am quite happy with it. The only time I get a wavy board is when I push it to hard or the blade starts to get dull. Whatever type of mill you get it will only cut as good as the sawyer is.

Ron

[badpenny]

   Rathbone, welcome to the best forum, bar none.  badpenny

[Chris Burchfield]

I can not express how beneficial it was for me to spend a day with a sawyer who used a mill like the one I had chosen. I learned more from him in one day than I would have in a month of trial and error on my own. I'll back up what Jeff B. said "staying with a Forum sponsor" on the left of your screen. I'll have to go with the sawyer being the problem. Improper tension of the blade, hogging through the log not allowing the blade time to cut, sharpness of the blade, proper blade for the application any one of these will cause problems. Take time and good luck with your selection.

[Kirk_Allen]

I have been on jobs were I had a wave in a board due to either pushing to fast or dull blade.  I NEVER leave that wave.  I fix the problem and make a new cut to shave off the hump.  The only time I get sinkers (downward wave)is after hitting hardware.

Who ever cut you lumber before should have noticed the problem and fixed it on the spot. 

[chassawyers]

Hey Rathbone.....let me address your question.  I am not a full time sawyer and live by day as a counselor.  So, all that repair and maintenance stuff is like learning all over every time.  The guys here that are full timers will be able to do what I do in service in half the time.

Adjust the roller guides: a half hour.  I end up doing this maybe once every couple of weeks.  Not rocket science, clip a straight edge on the blade and measure to the bed.  Do it for both rollers.  If this aint right the cutting will be bad.  It effects everything including blade life and the taste of morning coffee.  A properly alligned blade is harmony.

I'll give you a couple of bits of advise that I share with folks I train:
a.  if it just about making money, get another job.  Liking wood is a major part of the job.
b.  charge by the hour unless you are at home.  Much more simple and less pressure to make lots of mediocre lumber.  Quality is part of the enjoyment.
c.  think flooring and treated pine.  Quarter saw the hardwoods and treat your storage pine.  Its a value added. 
d.  consider training at a post and beam/timber frame school.
e. if you get a woodmizer, get it with hydraulics!!!!  Worth evey penny every day!!!
And by all means take the opportunity to saw with a local as their knowledge of the specifics of the local species is what you need to know. 

[jpgreen]

Welcome to the club RB.. 

I truly like both types of mills.  I think one thing a swinger's got going for it is price and portability.  It can saw any sized log also, which is very nice..   

If you haven't got the cabbage for a hydraulic band mill, then the swinger is the first choice IMO..

[rathbone]

Thanks JP and to all those who replied so far, the forum is great and the info I'm getting will help me make a good informed decision.

Its Miller time boys, so I better go do my part

[getoverit]

I really love my Peterson ATS, and am totally satisfied with my purchase. One thing I wish I had done was at least get the 24 hp engine though, but the 13hp I have cuts  everything I have asked it to.

There are times when a bandmill would be nice to have, and some time in the future I may find myself owning one.  Smaller logs can be a challenge with the swingmill and larger logs can be a challenge with the bandmill. In my case, there is nobody anywhere near me that has a swingmill  and there are loads of bandmills. I decided on the swingmill based on the advice of some here on the forum, and so far their advice has proven true and I am able to fill that "niche" market of milling large urban logs that nobody else can do.

My advice to you would be to find out what other sawyers in the area have as far as equipment, and see if there are any mills that can handle the large logs. If there are no bandmills around, then maybe a FULLY HYDRAULIC portable bandmill would be a good choice. If there are already bandmills around, then your best bet is a swingmill.

Hope this helps !

[solodan]

I am with getoverit.
I own a Lucas 827, but may add a band mill in the future.
What do you really need? I am in California, lots of big trees, lots of steep terrain. Will you be sawing yard trees? or will most of your trees be coming out of the woods? They both have advantages. I have seen plenty of wavy lumber come off of band mills, but I have also seen nice boards come off of them as well. Probably the sawyer not the equipment. Just when I think my swinger is so great someone wants a bunch of 1x12. If I had a band mill, every one would be trying to give me  nothing but 60" sugar pines. 
You will be happy with any mill you buy, but at the same time you will want more.

[loudsam]

I agree with all of the above.  I've got a cheap band mill, (good design, just cheap quality control, and after sale service), and I don't know a thing about sawmilling, but, I can saw "straight" lumber with it.  I've taken a micrometer to the lumber and it's amazing how accurate the thing is.  It's not a mill from any of the Forum Sponsers.

Another thing-for me at least, no piece of equipment is forever.  Like some others have said, and I don't know this from experience, only common sense- If having a band sawmill is good, having a band sawmill and a swingmill would be even better!  And if having a band sawmill and a swingmill is better, then  having a band sawmill and a swingmill and a chainsaw mill would be even better than that!!!  You can kind of see where this is all going to end for me???  If having a tractor is good, then having a tractor and a truck big enough to pull the tractor around is even better!!!  And on, and on, and on!!!    

[rathbone]

Hey Loudsam, nice to get your feedback, sounds like the circle of equipment buying could go on and on.  I think based on the feedback from the boys here on the forum, I will ok going either way.

Have a great and safe sawing weekend !!!

Rathbone

[jpgreen]

You should  bring your swinger up here this spring Dan for these old growth DF's around here, and I'll bring my LT40 down there for the 1x's.

[solodan]

That sounds great, and I can bring my trailer if you are getting tired of that Kubota, I need one of those

[jpgreen]

Dan-

I'd let you take Sea Biscuit back with you, but I think he would be awfully home sick. 

He's a very sensitive Kubota don'tchaknow...