Author Topic: "Peterson blade bounce?" (Read 2376 times)

TinMan · « **on:** March 05, 2006, 11:44:41 pm »

Hey guys....

Im having trouble with blade bounce in the vertical cut on my ATS 8... I sent a Troy a PM hoping he would have the answer Im looking for, some easy fix..... He said he still has trouble with it and is taking 6 inch cuts and two passes to make his 8 inch cuts. Thanks for the input Troy, I appreciate it. Just hoping there is something I can do to help combat the problem. I just figure my 8 inch mill should make an 8 inch cut with no hassle.

Anyone have any more input or experiences with this they would care to share?

Helppppppp!!

Tracy

jpgreen · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2006, 11:56:05 pm »

You're not playing funk music in the background whilst sawing are you Tracy?..

TinMan · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:20:27 am »

No!

jpgreen · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:30:21 am »

Justa thought.......

Hammy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:39:16 am »

Hi Tracy,

I am wondering if you have all the supports set up correctly. When you purchased your sawmill you would have received 2 centre supports, 1 with a diagonal and one with out. These need to be used if you are cutting long logs around 16-20 feet.

Your actual winch upright frames need to be spaced about 3 feet in from each end of the tracks. Centre supports get installed in the middle of these uprights and on each side of the track.

Each raise and lower of the unit the star knobs located on the centre supports require tightening.

Hope this helps, if you're still having problems feel free to call our toll free number 1877 327 1471 & ask for the Technical Dept.

Hammond

TinMan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:54:05 am »

Hammond

Using the the center supports helped a bit, but it seemed as if the saw carriage itself is what was doing the bouncing...

Thanks

Tracy

NZJake · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:10:08 am »

You need one of these babies... Tinman, you must be cutting some real hard timber? Give me a ring at the factory and we'll figure out your bounce issue. It could be that your vertical lock needs a little tweeking?

All else failing...This little device is designed for real hard timber. Gets rid of the annoying bounce should it show its face.

TN_man · « **Reply #7 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:45:50 am »

Is there a name for this little device?
I am trying to tell from the picture, but it looks like some kind of a clamping device that runs from one side of the carrage head to the other. I s that right?

NZJake · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:54:41 am »

Look at the device just under the sawdust shoot, It's just a bolt on idler wheel that adjusts up and down to run on your log (attaches to the corner bolt). Stops the centre unit from being pulled down into the wood. "Anti-vibe device".

TN_man · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:58:26 am »

Okay, now I know what I am looking at.

I hope Captain will have one in stock.
Thanks!

TinMan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:02:11 am »

NZJake

Yes we were cutting hardwood, but nothing out of the ordinary for around here... My vertical lock seems a little less positive than my horizontal $:-\$ Maybe a little tightening up on the left side half moon is in order

If that dont work, Im gonna need one of them little devices.....

Thanks

Tracy

jpgreen · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:52:14 am »

Tracy.. It looks like you have your tailer just like Troy does ancious and waiting there in your avatar, so better get back to sawin'..

Jeff Meyer · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2006, 11:28:28 am »

TinMan, I don't think we have talked but I am the regional rep for Peterson on the west coast. First congrats on your new mill. I will be more than happy to help you with questions or parts. I have a good selection of parts on hand and have been running a Peterosn mill for 6 years now. I just finished up at the Eugene logging conference and dont remember talking to you. So here are some ideas about your mill jumping on you. I have experienced this many times. I would be willing to bet that this happens more at the end of the log. As you come back does it stop bouncing as hard? I have found that if it is the butt cut of the tree it is even worse. So this is what I do. If I am going to make a 6" or larger vertical cut I have my partner put a wedge in the cut. There is a lot of tension in wood and the wedge keeps the cut open. I have started a vertical cut 6" and have had the log suck my mill in and kill the motor. I have also had it push it out very hard and fast. I feel the bounch is from the tension in the stick. Every stick is different. I have a lot more ideas so if you get a chance give me a ring and I will go over them with you. But don't worry this does happen to other people. My number is 707-476-2522

Troy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2006, 11:30:48 am »

As Tracy mentioned I still have problems with blade bounce while making vertical passes. To date I have only cut red and white oak, lots of it, but nothing of the soft wood variety to compare to. I have to go slow and feel my way through the cuts. When I come to knots in the log or stressed areas it becomes more prone to pulling the saw down. I can deal with that as it just makes sense, but what I do notice that bothers me is that milling vertical passes are much slower that milling horizontally though the log. Is this common? Blade patterns seem to be pretty good.

jpgreen · « **Reply #14 on:** March 06, 2006, 11:33:00 am »

How's it going Jeff?

I wondered when you were going to post over here on the FF.

Snowin' like crazy on South Fork right now.

Pat..........

-and good morning from the left coast Troy..

Jeff Meyer · « **Reply #15 on:** March 06, 2006, 11:57:09 am »

I bet it is cold over there. I have been meaning of heading up to the Lake but there is a lot of snow I am sure. I am going to have a demo up there this summer and I will let you know.

Troy:
I have found the opposite. I like to always cut my large dimension with my vertical cut. Reason for that is there is less area of wood touching my balde which is less resistance.

jpgreen · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:09:51 pm »

Well welcome to the forum Jeff..

We've got to get together and do some fishing at Ruth lake..

Fella's... Jeff has 300 acres there not to far from me, and he's a recent father of triplets.. that's "THREE" (3) new additions.

His Peterson milling crew is set for the future..

Jeff Meyer · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:23:01 pm »

Fishing will start to pick up soon and we will plan a day. Hope you can hang on. Top speed on Ruth 72mph. Good bass fishing. I attached a pic of the babies. They just turned one last week. Can't wait till there old enough to help on the ranch. I tried to attach a photo of them but the pic is to large.

DanG · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2006, 01:55:33 pm »

Getting back to the problem at hand, blade bounce is a common problem with swingers and dimension saws, mainly due to the low number of teeth on the blade. In a deep cut, the tooth is on the upswing when doing the major part of the cutting, and tends to pull the saw downward. When the tooth exits the wood, the track pulls the saw back up, then the next tooth pulls it down again, setting up an oscillation. The MD manual explains this very well, and includes the plans to build a "track rider shoe" that works just like Jake's device. It essentially supports the saw on the log to keep the saw from being pulled down.

I get track bounce on my MD when making a long, deep cut. The D&L doesn't have this problem, to my knowledge because the saw is supported equally for the entire length of the cut.

getoverit · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:07:51 pm »

I have the bounce problem every once in a while also, and like has been mentioned before, it is usually in the last couple of feet of the cut. I have always thought that it was possibly because I wasnt sawing exactly with the grain of the wood that caused it, but maybe not.

Anyway, placing the braces towards the middle of the track has almost eliminated the problem. This is what my setup looks like right now, and I have sawed about 15 logs from the same location with it.

Notice the braces in the middle of the rails...

by the way, when I lower my rails to the next depth, I tried making heads and tails out of the guage on the head of the winches, but found this is just as quick, and a whole lot accurate:

I bought a roll of that magnetic tape like you would stick those refrigerator things on the door with, then cut off pieces about an inch long. The uprights are galvanized, so the magnets will stick to them. I stick a piece of the magnet at the top of the red slide on the rail like this:

and then I lower the rails down to where I want them, using an aluminum yard stick I picked up at the hardware store for less than $2.

This gives me a VERY accurate cut each time I lower the rails.

I have been cutting a LOT of hickory, cutting mostly 5/4 by 8 inch boards, most of them 9 ft long.

The hickory is some of the hardest american woods, and the ATS with a 13hp Honda cuts through them just fine. It does slow a little in the knotty areas, but I have no problems cutting the hickory. If I forget to tighten the locking screws when I move the rail, it starts the bouncing blade syndrome. I just lock the carrige down, go tighten the locks on the middle braces, and I'm back in business with no bounce.

I have alos been cutting up some VEARY old pine logs which are so old that they are practically dry when I cut them. I have been working on turning our old hay barn into a workshop, and decided to go ahead and use the pine 1X8 to panel the walls of the workshop. Just thought I would post a picture on my progress on this project so far>

Hope this helps !

Ken

jpgreen · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:29:45 pm »

Nice looking setup thar Ken..

getoverit · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2006, 04:02:15 pm »

Thanks

I have figured out that it is a lot easier to move the logs than move the mill, so I cut some 4X6 pine that extends out past the edge of the rails, then I just drag the logs onto the 4x6's and roll them into place for milling. It is hard to tell in the pictures, but the sawdust pile got pretty deep before I dug it out and put the sawdust in the chicken pen. I think I'm going to move the mill to a spot with more shade and better room soon, keeping in mind that I can just drag the logs over to the mill with the tractor. You have to raise the rails on the mill in order to get to the top of the next log anyway, and rolling the logs under the rails is easy enough to do with the LogRite Peavy's. Now when jpgreen's log dogs get here, I wont even have to worry about the log moving any more

So far, that has been my only problem.... logs moving when I get down to the last couple of inches of the log... it wont happen soon !!

While I was typing this post, I looked out the window and saw that I had some helpers out there with the sawdust... just thought you might like to see the free sawdust spreading help I got?

That is a flock of turkeys, in case you dont recognize them... the gobbler is HUGE !

jpgreen · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2006, 04:33:54 pm »

I've been wanting a turkey now for a long time. The coyotes keep beatin' me to the punch Ken.

Your new pups will be there tomorrow..

TinMan · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:11:39 pm »

Thanks for all the input guys

Nice to meet you Jeff, thanks for the Ideas. The bounce seemed to occur anywhere in the log, and got worse as the day went on. Change speeds didnt help, it did it when I went slow or fast. In fact if I pulled into the log pretty hard and kept on it, it didnt seem as bad. After I sharpened it seemed worse. DanG, what you said about the blade pulling down in the deep cut makes the most sense to me as the problem....I think Im gonna need that little device....

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it

Tracy

Jeff Meyer · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:35:22 pm »

Well, sorry I couldn't be more help. Let me know how it goes.

Thanks

Jeff

arnold · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2006, 03:35:11 am »

check a number of things with the blade.
1 side clearance on the teeth
2 The difference between plate thickness and kerf thickness.
Check with the peterson guys what their recomendations would be.
3 Blade tension or the lack of it will also not help.
Does the bounce still happen if you do the Vert. 1st and the horozontal last ?

TinMan · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2006, 10:12:17 am »

Arnold

The mill is brand new only four hours on the meter and I tried both blades, they both did the annoying bounce.

Tracy

Troy · « **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2006, 11:47:37 am »

Tracy,

Do you have a good blade pattern on the vertical face of the log after you make a full pass. My lean in was out quite a bit when I first set it up and was causing my initail blade bounce problem. Note to self... don't try to set blade adjustments on log with lots of tension. Second time was the charm. I still have occasional problems, but mostly when I come across knots and reaction wood.

Troy

crtreedude · « **Reply #28 on:** March 07, 2006, 12:41:05 pm »

Embarrased newbies... (Harold and I)

We spent a day trying to figure out what was wrong with ours - and then found out that the housing wasn't setting completely on the track.

Check everything to make sure it is level, and that the boards that you are removed are square.

NZJake · « **Reply #29 on:** March 07, 2006, 07:48:10 pm »

Gidday All, just to let you know 6 of those anti-vibe devices will be leaving the factory today, heading for Captain as inventory.

Also, the re-tipping jigs price has been finalised and shipping details are now available, 10 of them will be heading to Captain within the next week, ring through for further information on these units.

On my part, I will now be continually updating the sponsers section with week to week improvements in design toward our sawmills. Eg, new riving knife designs, anti-vibe devices etc. etc. So check out this area often as there will be many improvements for your interest.

Troy · « **Reply #30 on:** March 07, 2006, 08:13:17 pm »

Hey Captain - I'll take one anti-vibe devicey if it's not too pricey.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #31 on:** March 07, 2006, 10:40:52 pm »

Riving knife !!!!!!!!! That's what's missing on my mill.

Bolt holes are stripped

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #32 on:** March 07, 2006, 11:25:32 pm »

Also, regarding the "bounce". We were sawing 20' hardwood, REAL hard hardwood. When we experienced the bounce Fred was talking about, I had the guys check the blocking under the tracks. Sure enough, the tracks were actually moving up and down. You state the bounce gets worse as the day progresses. Seems like your center track blocking could be getting pressed into the ground, and you THINK it is solid. Might try jumping up and down a little on the center of each track or track support. We have the WPF model, so the track stays on the ground. Our cross supports to hold the tracks were at the very ends of the track, because the logs were way to big and heavy to move to bunks.

crtreedude · « **Reply #33 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:35:42 am »

Nah, Harold, that wasn't hard - that was just Ojoche.

Wait till you gnaw into Corteza. Everything is relative my friend.

I think the amount of Corteza to cut on Monte Cristo is 4 to 5 thousand BF.

Captain · « **Reply #34 on:** March 08, 2006, 07:47:24 am »

OK guys, tips to minimize blade bounce assuming all other adjustments are correct....

1) ATS owners...use the middle track supports when your end frames are over 10-12 feet apart. The track sections will bounce in deep vertical cuts otherwise. WPF owners, if you have track bounce (less likely) make sure your track is supported appropriately...blocking is fine under the low track. If you are cutting very large logs that require long unsupported sections of high track, you may want to consider another high track support.

2) Wide frame mills (all ATS and large frame WPF) can get a bounce in the mill frame when the center unit is in the middle of the frame...this is what the device in Jake pics is for. To prevent this (if possible) position the log as close to the right side track as possible, to prevent the center unit from being in the middle of the frame. This becomes problematic when trying to double cut, as the log needs to be more centered.

Have fun be safe and post more questions!!

Captain

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Author Topic: "Peterson blade bounce?" (Read 2376 times)