Wood for boat building

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I woodn't be afraid to build nearly an entire boat using Cypress, especially the old Heart. It is almost as hard as mahogany, and the fasteners today are more varied in design to hold the wood together. Epoxy and other similar adhesives were not available in the old days, and there was not the same stresses from HorsePower as there is today.

  I grew up in White Cedar Country, (think Jersey Speed Skiffs). Cedar is not necessarily a soft wood, it is equal to good Yellow Pine.

  I don't think I wood use Red Cedar, unless yer talkin Western Red.

  Still remember walking into Boat Building sheds and smelling that White Cedar and standing knee deep in Cedar curls from the hand Planes. 

[quirkus]

I found a mill in Hemphill, and a broker online with everything in the world. I didn't realize cypress was so common. And yellow pine, which apparently means longleaf yellow pine to a lot of folks. And then we have sinker pine and three varieties of sinker cypress. The sinker pine is probably going to be longleaf YP. Don't know yet. I thought LYP was more or less extinct. The more I know, the less I know. I have a pretty good stack of LYP, 2x10x8 long, salvaged from cotton warehouses in Galveston. Useful for framing but not planking. If you, Tom, wanted LYP in plank form, could you get it? another variety mentioned for planking is poplar. Anyway, the variety of wood out there is astounding. Probably the prices, too. 
We have a lot of live oak. If you look at a lot of boat plans, then look at a lot of trees, you can see why live oak is a natural for harvesting frames, knees, cleats, stems, etc. But not planks! It is said that the Texas coast, on the barrier islands, was once heavily covered with live oak, which was heavily cut for boat lumber.   

[Dana]

If you ever need Northern White Cedar I can saw some up.

[TexasTimbers]

Working on memery here, but wasn't Old Ironsides (U.S.S. Constitution) constructed of Live Oak? Of course it would have been old growth no matter what she was built of, and I'm sure more than one species was used. But I remember hearing live oak if memory serves.
I do know that she is the oldest commissioned warship on the planet still afloat, unless the USN has decommissioned her quietly in recent years. I can't fathom that thought though.
I remember reading about the British sailors complaining that their cannon balls bounced off her like she had sides built of iron.
Maybe you should take some of that live oak and built a 1/4 scale replica for a local tourist attraction.

And oh yes ...like Costa Rica Deadheader ( ), I wouldn't use ERC either (no matter what Cedarman might say ). That wood does not have the qualities you are seeking for boatbuilding.

[quirkus]

Dana -- I sent you a personal message -- hope you got it.
Kevjay -- I don't know about planks, but the frames and stems and knees and other curved parts were cut from live oaks in either Georgia or South Carolina. I think our oaks are the same species, but only a pro would know that. I intend to harvest some pieces, when I get one of thos roundtuits. Question for you -- Is there any black locust in your neighborhood?

[raycon]

I spend much of my  milling time on boat building projects.

White oak,sassafras, black locust, white cedar,juniper, apple, cherry, spruce,fir, pine,ash, all the oaks...thats what I've been milling in this area. If you need some black locust for cleats or other send me off a message I stockpile the stuff.

Check out newman knees for ideas on getting  sawn ribs,knees or stem out of a tree.  I'm lofting a swampscott dory at the moment plan to build 2 this spring or summer. Apple,white oak, and black locust  for sawn ribs,steamed ribs and stem in that order planked with our CT white cedar aka juniper. I'd like to get some quality Atlantic white or northern white as well.
 
In the softwoods planking stock I look for ring density.  White oak I look for straight grained fast growing wood.  Steaming stock straight grained no run out and MC in the 15-25% range.   

[beenthere]

kevjay
The 'old ironsides' had 12x12 frames of live oak, and 6" wh oak planking on those frames. It (the USS Constitution) is still a commissioned ship and underwent another restoration in the middle 90's (200 year anniversary, or thereabouts). Also, at that time the Navy removed the sailors' quarters from the ship, so its more authentic now than before. Worth a visit to Boston to see the old ship. President George Washington commissioned the ship along with 4 others to be built in the 1790's, but only 3 of the 5 were built in the short time frame of about 18 months. Pretty amazing in my book. 

Speaking of ships, did anyone see the big billboard ad that was made for advertising the Russian military which showed a jet fighter and a ship with something in Russian. Apparently they didn't stay up long because the ship shown on the billboard was the USS Missouri.  No one lost their head, but the top Russians said they thought they had some of their own ships that could be used in the ad rather than the Missouri. 

[Riles]

FWIW, old growth vs second growth doesn't matter with hardwoods when it comes to strength. Softwoods have a problem with strength when you grow them fast, but hardwoods don't. Old growth hardwoods LOOK prettier, but close rings don't make stronger wood. In fact, some hardwoods are stronger the faster you grow them.

[UNCLEBUCK]

For lapstrake planking like was used in the viking boats you dont want any crooked lumber used for planking , all quartersawn and straight as a string .It has to be in order to lay the lapstrake out exaclty .  Crooked lumber gets used for ornamental and some strength items above the waterline .  I got lost once in a east Texas thicket and I never seen so much pine trees .  I think you got all your boats standing out your back door quirkus just a callin ya   

SwampDonkey if the vikings didnt sail to Minnesota then how come I ended up by the North Dakota stateline    My ancestors must have waited a few centuries for the invention of the train 

[beenthere]

Found a pic in my files of a mock-up section of 'old ironsides' which shows the 12x12 live oak frames side by each with the 6" oak cladding pinned to the outside and inside of the frames to make the hull.

[UNCLEBUCK]

That looks cannonball proof to me ! Holy cow what a ship.   It sounds like quirkus is going to have himself a very good time doing his boats .  I think Corley just yanked old ironsidesII out of the river down in florida last week 

[bberry]

Uncle Buck, I am sure I heard your ancestors did sail out to Minnesota. The boats they used were not used any where else because they were poor sailers and poor floaters. I have to say that your ancestors prairie schooners did not get many admiring looks from many coastal Mainers.    
     Old time wooden lobster boats here were made with a skeleton of oak and a skin of white cedar and they were some of the finest boats on the planet and they still are except they are made of new age materials now. Most oak and cedar are rot resistant. Stong skeleton and light skin. Maine boatbuilding goes way back.Check out some of the boats built on Mount Desert Island.
       I would not use poplar around any boatbuilding where it might get wet. It goes bad quick.

[raycon]

In a previous post in this thread I mentioned Newman Knees. I believe Newman posted in the Timber Frame forum a while back I'm not sure. Sadly I just heard of his passing.

Borrowing someone else's description of what happened
"My interpretation of the description is that a heavy dead side limb from a tree next to the one he cut came down from more than 20' up onto his head. He was wearing all his gear (helmut, etc.). The Medical examiner said "It was a lethal blow".



Newman Knees

Newman will be missed. 

[TexasTimbers]

Sorry to hear of his passing. I wasn't familiar with his work until you posted this. I bookmarked his site. He did some wonderful work, I would like to incorporate a knee or two in our TF project.

[Raphael]

That's a real shame   

 Strange thing is his name (and knees) came up in conversation twice in the past week...
  The last fellow to log our families land died the same way.

[Bob Smalser]

What I know about it comes from books, and they specify certain woods. I am looking for wood for this project, and I anticipate building more than one boat. For planks, the top choices are eastern and northern white pine, western red cedar, Maine white cedar, and Eastern white cedar. For steam-bent frames, white oak seems to be the only choice, and it needs to be relatively green (unseasoned). Seasoned white oak is the traditional material for sawn frames. Finally, for all woods, there is a preference for wood cut from butt logs.

Go log on to woodenboat-ubb.com  to get professional boatbuilder's advice.  You're reading books written by easterners and you're in Texas, and you're asking boatbuilder questions to sawyers, although sawyers make excellent boatbuilders because they understand their medium better than many boatbuilders.   

Almost anything White Oak and Northern White Cedar will do, your more local woods like Longleaf Pine, Bodark, Sassafras and Cypress will, too.   Few of those woods bend as well as WO, but depending on the boat, what can't be bent can often be laminated.  The heavier woods are usually sufficiently stronger that you can reduce the thickness the designer specified for the lighter wood and build a boat just or almost as light.

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php