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Author Topic: Tending your little piece of earth  (Read 40110 times)

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Offline SwampDonkey

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Red Spruce 'Plus Tree'
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2006, 01:33:47 pm »
There is nothing real special about this tree. But it's a Norway spruce as near as I can tell. And it looks like it was planted. But I think it got mixed in with the black spruce seed because the planting crew planted black spruce here. I have planted some red spruce as well as some white here, but none go back as fair as 1996 in this section.

I was struck by this particular tree because of it's form, branching, foliage color (yellow-brown stem and yellow-green needles), and it's spectacular leader growth over the last two years. It has been growing 33 inches, 2 years running and the 3rd year hence it grew 24 inches. Most of the spruce on the nicer microsites of the plantation have grown 14-18 inches. This is my little 'plus tree', to bad I won't be around when it's 3 feet on the stump. :D This is definately one of them trees that deserves the 'pill bottle treatment'. So what's that? Well there is a gentleman woodlot owner that keeps a little pill bottle attached to a branch of a few of his special trees, where he rights down the change in diameter growth from time to time and when it might have been thinned around or planted. ;)



11.3 foot tall Norway spruce.



33 inch leader

 :)

I had to edit this post because my initial measurements were estimates   :o way off, the actual measurements are even longer :o

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2006, 06:56:03 pm »
Yesterday I started thinning,  I only had a tank of gas though because my 1 gal can was empty and 2 ga can was m.i.a.  ::)

  Dropped a bunch of small ash, pruned a cherry and a couple apple.  I left the ash whole so I could drag them to the burn pile easier, when I walked through there today - the deer had devoured every single bud.  the strange thing is, the deer seemed to know dropped trees = food.  After walking further,  I  came across an elm that had died while it was standing and had just fallen, there were deer tracks surrounding that as well which further confirmed my suspicions.    Now my only concern is that the deer won't stop with the ash and start chewing off the tops of the young maples I am trying to promote. - Maybe I can build a fence out of the trees I cut to keep them out  :)
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2006, 07:53:55 pm »
If you make afence out of the fresh trees you cut, the deer will just eat them on the way to the maples.  ;D :o :o
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2006, 08:28:24 pm »
I would have considered leaving the ash until the maples had some more height. Safety in numbers. At least your deer aren't as hard on tree bark as moose. They'll ruin a piece of ground over winter.  >:( We run into the problem of thinning hardwood stands with taller poplar. The crews seem to want to cut out the hardwood. Often times the hardwood are only 3 meters, and should be 4, I prefer 5. So you get some contractor trying to make the stand fit criteria by leaving poplar.  ::) I've seen some nice maple develop in poplar stands without having to thin it. Having said that I thinned about an acre of a similar stand but I favored the maple, ironwood, spruce and fir even though the hardwood was a bit short. If I left it for another 3 or 4 years the poplar would be too big to get down. So, anyway I walked in there this winter and the hardwood are doing nicely. Those poplar are just good nurse trees. If you have large-toothed the growth is faster them trembling, almost double. :)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2006, 09:03:13 pm »
The supressed maple I'm trying to release, are the same age as ones I transplanted to the lawn, trees on lawn are 8-10'  ones under ash are  3'  max. It is really amazing how well the ones on the lawn grew after I 'released' them by transplanting - I never thought they would  grow so well after that trauma to their root system  :)
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2006, 09:27:23 pm »
Yes, I've done the same with sugar maple and they really do grow fast once established on the new site. Three foot annual height growth isn't uncommon. I'll take some pics tommorrow with the tape measure. Mine are in partial shade of spruce. Now on the other hand I have some black ash I transplanted that have hardly grown in 20 years. I think they are slower than ironwood. :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2006, 11:37:10 pm »
3' a year growth will put a lot of the terminals out of deer browse height.  :)

The ones I transplanted are to form a hedgrow between the lawn and goldenrod patch,and are shaded in the morning by a  40' elm. My biggest problem was keeping the morning glory off of them  >:(

I need to rethink where I'm going to transplant more though, if any.  I was going to plant in the whole goldenrod, but I can't because I don't want the horseradish growin there to die off. :(


BTW << look what I made  ;D
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2006, 04:46:00 am »
Yeah I see what you made.  ;)

I have some white ash out in an old flower bed that get's morning glory. Can thank great grand mother for that stuff. I have to pull it or unwind it off the trees a couple times a year. :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2006, 11:26:37 am »


Difference in aspen growth on same ground. The taller stems are large toothed and the short are trembling.




54 inch internodal growth of transplanted  sugar maple. Growing in partial shade from white spruce.



Closer look

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2006, 12:30:55 pm »
There was only 1 trembling here, it blew over.  I cut it up and it had all kinds of sprouts on it.  Before I thought about making it clones, all the sprouts died.  I did go by there yesterday and noticed a sprout or 2 comin up by the root ball.  I think I'll wait til tey get a little bigger, then start clonin  :) The thing I like about those is that they do grow so DanG fast.

A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2006, 12:55:59 pm »
here are a couple 'before' pictures.


The blue lines are 4wheeler trails that will continue to be maintained.  The red line is where I'm putting in a hedgerow.  The space between is goldenrod, but we get horseradish out of there in the spring  :)  Where the brushpile is used to be a garden, that is where I am going to plant my aspen clones if succesful.  That little evergreen on the right I might have some questions about
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2006, 01:59:24 pm »
I didn't think anything could kill horse radish. Can't even smother it with earth. Father cleared off an old homestead for field. The horse radish came back up and he plowed and sprayed herbicide on that field for 40 years and never did kill it. ;D :D :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2006, 02:02:54 pm »
Cloning aspen isn't so easy unless you use rooting hormone. Balm on the another hand doesn't require rooting hormone, grows like raspberry canes.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2006, 03:06:29 pm »
I've never seen horseradish growin under anything, so I'd rather just leave it alone.


I'd have to travel north to find any balsam.  Maybe I will just search the woods  :)

I want to plant some specimens too.   How many species do you have growin there?

of the top of my head all we have is:
sugar maple
red maple
apple
butternut
ash
black cherry
red pine
lilac
salix spp. that got brought in with some fill
and the newly found 'mystery' tree       
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2006, 04:25:53 pm »
Ok, I think you mean on your woodlot. Because you have more than that state wide. Ok, here is my list on the woodlot, there are some others on my house property as well.

Softwoods
black spruce (seedlings)
white spruce
red spruce (seedlings)
balsam fir (moose food, but not preferred) ;)
white pine (seedlings)
red pine (seedlings)
hemlock (seedlings)
northern white cedar
tamarack (seedlings)
canada yew

hardwoods
trembling aspen (moose, grouse food)
large toothed aspen (moose food)
balsam poplar (moose food)
white birch (moose, grouse food)
yellow birch (moose, grouse food)
gray birch (moose, grouse food)
american elm
basswood (stump sprout selective)
butternut (seedlings)
black walnut (seedlings)
white ash
black ash
ironwood
sugar maple
red maple (moose food)
striped maple (moose food)
mountain maple (moose food)
willow (various species) baby moose food ;D
black cherry
pin cherry
choke cherry
apple
northern red oak (seedlings, saplings)
scarlet oak (seedlings)
beech (seedlings)
beaked hazel
dogwood (various species)
fly honeysuckle
bush honeysuckle
red berried elder (grouse food)
high bush cranberry (grouse food)
speckled alder (grouse food)

Everything is snow shoe hare food :D :D

At the house I have some others not mentioned

blue spruce
japanese larch
european larch
jack pine
box elder
lilac
wigellia (spelling)
sour cherry
service berry
mountain ash

That's all I can think of.  ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline jon12345

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2006, 09:09:54 pm »
I want to add more softwoods for sure.  Red pines and that little shrubby lookin thing in the pic are all we got here now.  I will probably collect seed for them and try it like that.  I want to add

norway spruce
black spruce
red spruce
white pine
cedar
hemlock

white oak
red oak
yellow birch  - we had 1 in the yard but its coming down sooon


This is just for starters, I want to grow at least 1 of every possible species I can  :)

A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline Minnesota_boy

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2006, 09:15:49 pm »
Got some wet spots?  Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp.  Got deer?  The absolutely love little white pine.  I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival.  The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2006, 07:27:22 am »
Got some wet spots?  Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp.  Got deer?  The absolutely love little white pine.  I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival.  The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.

I don't know if 'prefer' is the optimum term. They will definately do better on well drained soil. I have some black spruce planted in 1996, those near wet ground are 1 to 3 feet tall, those in well drained sandy clay loam are 6 to 12 feet tall. ;) I have tamarack in wet ground that seem to grow about as well as on dryer ground. Cedar grows faster on moist well draind ground than in swampy mushy ground. As far as white pine, if the hare doen't prune them to death the moose take thier antlers and rub off the bark and limbs.  ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Tending your little piece of earth
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2006, 01:46:02 pm »
Ok, so I had to add this picture of the 'Pill Bottle Treatment' ;D



Inside the pill bottle is a pencil and a datasheet used to record the growth of the tree and any treatments to the stand during the development of the tree. I will be installing pill bottles on a number of trees this year as it's been 10 years since the first plantation was established. I have some hardwood and other softwoods eyed for special attention.  ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline SwampDonkey

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Conducted a non scientific growth survey
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2006, 02:25:29 pm »
Ok, I usually walk over my plantations with eyes wide open and am always aware of what is happening even if it seems trivial. What I have noticed for quite some time is, there is a significant difference in the growth increment between different seedling sources. What really rings true here is that I'm finding a significant difference in growth based on needle size. Now all my trees in this non scientific survey are spaced equally and are not over topped by other trees or weeds. The ground is the same soil type. The year they were planted has a 2 year gap between one source and another. I compared needles from two sample clippings with 20 other trees selected as random as neccessary. One sample clipping was taken from one of my best seedlings from DNR, planted in 1996. The other clipping was from a tree of one of the best seedlings from a private forest nursery. The two clippings where within 100 meters of one another and the aspect of both sites in south. Here is a picture of the clippings below.



The top clipping is from a DNR tree, the bottom is from the private nursery. So what is the significance of this? I've noticed that trees with larger needles put on growth 20 - 50 % faster than trees with needles 10-30 % smaller. The size in this study can vary by width or length. As I said, this is unscientific, but when you walk these plantations it's as plain as light vs dark. The species I'm comparing is black spruce, probably the most studied/nurtured tree species in Canada. I'm now about on the web to search for any published papers on the subject. I can't believe that such a study has been overlooked. Anyone with some info on this?

cheers

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry