Author Topic: Tending your little piece of earth (Read 15398 times)

SwampDonkey · « **on:** December 11, 2005, 01:39:24 pm »

Ok, here's a couple of pictures of trees I planted in mod- heavy slash piles 3 summers ago (2002). I had this area that wasn't growing anything accept some scattered cedar, fir and balm. It was alot of work getting into the groove and finding a spot for each tree. It's something you could only do on your own land unless someone is paying you by the hour. I was quite pleased with the results and the slash helps deter the weeds. Nothing is impossible I guess, just need determination.

Moderate

Heavy

Did some plantation cleaning this spring (May) with a spacing saw. I cleaned about 10 acres of the plantation and 2.5 acres of natural mixed growth along the edge of the plantation. I have more ground coming online for thinning each year. It's not that bad going and I prefer the coolness of the spring air. When it gets hot out, I'm not as keen to lug around a spacing saw. Try it for a week yourself and find out why.

Notice I also have a nice nurse crop of aspen that will be harvested before the spruce. There are also hardwood in the plantation that are on a longer rotation than the spruce. In some other areas I have alot of balsam fir that will be thinned out when the aspen is taken. This section was scarified in '95 and planted in '96. My plantations were planted at various stages after that.

This is an area of the plantation taken over by fir. I will be favoring the fir because of size and it's faster growth rate. I'll have to soon thin this before it gets too tall, it's handy to 10 feet tall now. Hoping for my first commercial harvest in 30 years.

Anyone is welcome to post the work they have done with their own hands to improve their land. Even road building is an improvement. Good roads are essential for ongoing tending, nurturing and admiring of your ground.

Part_Timer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2005, 06:14:38 pm »

that is neat. Could you tell me what a spacing saw is??

We have a small tobacco farm in virginia. We have 9 years and then we are going to move down there. Just going to slow life down a bit. This summer one of the neighbors helped us doze a road up to the barn. We went down and planted about 3 5gal. buckets of red oak,burroak, walnut and osage nuts and seeds. I won't have any pictures of what comes up till spring but it should be interesting.
We just purchased a 4 wheeler and a bush hog this week for Christmas so we can mow it down and keep the weekds under control.

This summer we met with a state forester and walked the whole place looking at trees and openings and what we should keep and what should go. We spent most all day up there and had a ball. Most of the place is at about a 50 deg slope in the up direction. I was flat worn out at the end of the day.

The forester showed us what to mow back and what to let go hence the 4 wheeler. he even sent us some paperwork on getting in a planting program for some pines also a reason for the 4 wheeler as we need it to keep the weeds back from the pines if we get in. I think that I'll just move some of the small white pines around instead of thinning them out. If we get in the program we're going to plant long leaf since we already have pleanty of whites. He thought that planting the burr oak would be a neat idea since they don't have any to speak of should freak out the loggers in 40 or 50 years to find a stand of them.

Well those are the plans for the coming year. I'll look and see if I can find some good pictures of the place.

good luck with your plantings

Tom

jon12345 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:03:51 pm »

'My little piece' is actually my mom's right now, but some day its gonna be mine

Is a little under 6 acres though so I'll have to obtain another 'little piece' somwheres else to play with too. Basically this lot used to be a field, there is a hedgerow through the middle of it consisting of ash, hard and soft maple and apple trees. Most of the old field grew in with ash and sugar maple, with a lot of maple and cherry growing under the ash. I've transplanted some of the maple to a non-wooded part, that will become the edge of what I hope will some day be a small sugarbush. Im not sure if I should clear the ash out now or wait til it gets bigger, because right now it is pretty small, you wouldnt even have to split it to use it as firewood. Regeneration under this part is almost too thick to walk through, so until I decide what to do I'll just keep transplanting maples out into the open. Since it is such a small area, I plan on doing a full inventory as soon as time allows. If worse comes to worse I can at least have a few bonfires

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:30:12 pm »

Quote from: Part_Timer on December 14, 2005, 06:14:38 pm

Could you tell me what a spacing saw is??

Spacing saw Stihl FS550

Its engine displacement is 52cc and comes in at 22 lbs. It requires a full-torso harness to support it and hearing protection to run it, having a 103-dBA rating at full throttle.

beenthere · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:39:43 pm »

"Clearing" saw is what Stihl calls it, but the 'spacing' tag might be the end result of 'spacing' trees. Never know what these foresters are going to dream up next.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:53:43 pm »

Quote from: beenthere on December 14, 2005, 07:39:43 pm

"Clearing" saw is what Stihl calls it, but the 'spacing' tag might be the end result of 'spacing' trees. Never know what these foresters are going to dream up next.

Who'd a thunk it, but a dumb canuck. No intense offended.

crtreedude · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:03:56 pm »

Hey SD - does it count if they are my workers?

I did help plant the first 4,000 trees so that should count, shouldn't it?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2005, 08:13:19 pm »

Quote from: crtreedude on December 14, 2005, 08:03:56 pm

Hey SD - does it count if they are my workers?

I did help plant the first 4,000 trees so that should count, shouldn't it?

Hmmmm, I guess that would be acceptable.

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2005, 10:36:28 pm »

My first one came from sears in 1984. I was given a second one, circa unknown, that is a stihl and has a chainsaw power head on it. Both were called bushwhackers. I've heard them called power machetes too. Never heard them called spacing saws. $:-\$

crtreedude · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2005, 04:05:38 am »

We have about 3 of those - or something like it. We just added a brushhog for behind an ATV (5 foot) also.

Nothing like mowing one square kilometer of land...

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2005, 10:45:00 am »

We call'm spacing saws because that's what we use'm for.

If it was a clearing saw than in my mind your not leaving anything standing. We don't do thinning from below, it's all thinning from above. Now that statement might invite some more questions.

http://ysc.nb.ca/ysccourses.html

jon12345 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2005, 05:24:23 pm »

I used one of those saws before to thin a stand of red & scotch pine, a few of them up to about 4" diameter, lets just say there was a 'little' smoke

beenthere · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2005, 05:41:22 pm »

If there is smoke, it needs to be sharpened, I suspect.

(which reminds me, I have one in the garage waiting to be sharpened, so thanks for the 'reminder')

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:13:17 pm »

Jon, I've cut softwood up to 6 inches on the stump and hardwood up to 5 inches. It doesn't have the Torque of a Huskie professional spacing saw (forget model #). It does have a higher RPM though. I like it 'cause it's lighter. I couldn't lug a Huskie around all day.

Jon, maybe ya didn't set the teeth and sharpen it properly. Shouldn't be too hard to cut pine 4".

Use a blade guage to set the teeth, the good ones are like $30 bucks. The ones on the file guage are pretty useless. When working in hardwood you have to check your set more often.

You can see the blade has been well used.

Usually you don't sharpen the teeth below that horizontal line on the tooth.

jon12345 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2005, 07:31:22 pm »

I think this one was a Stihl, owned by the college, and of course we always 'went real easy' on their equipment

We put a small blade on a weedwhacker to thin smaller diameter ash <2"in the stand I mentioned before

Part_Timer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2005, 02:58:49 pm »

Thanks for the picture swamp I understand now.

We call em brush cutters. this year we bought the Stihl that you can put different attachments on. We got ours with the hedge trimmer. I spent about 4 hours cutting rasberries off of the road. they were so bad that it would scratch the paint off of the truck. We also cut some trails to the backside of the place with it. It works well on the poison ivy and green brier also.

Tom

Cuz · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2006, 04:09:15 pm »

Man, you gotrto admire what all that power equipment can do but I have come to look for the bush axe, sling blade, hand saw, etc. before I crank up any of my saws, blades, cutters, mowers. Must be gettin' old and shore ain't in as big a hurry.

As for my little 15.5 acres, I just (last Spring) cut some nice trees and helped saw them and now drying the lumber for my next project. Had to get to my little pond dam to rework the spillway to discourage the beavers and muskrats from hanging around. I have planted and replanted some cypress around the ponds and have found that a barrier of some sort must be placed around the cypress or the beaver will go straight to it and cut it down. Started with some hardware cloth and ended up with some sections of drain pipe around the base of the trees and that seems to do the job...so far.

I'm still cleaning the tops, splitting and stacking firewood, and doing some erosion prevention, game food plots. All part of the intial project. It's great to have a little plot to work and see the fruits of your labors. Good therapy too.

jon12345 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2006, 09:57:03 pm »

Soon we will be removing all the 'junk' from our property such as all the ash. I don't know whats going to happen after that, may be clearing a building lot, so I'm not really sure. Until then I'm stuck dealin with the swampy areas I'm gonna try to dry up a little, and around the lawn of the existing house that I think needs a couple hedgerows, especially if another house might be goin in.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2006, 10:03:11 pm »

Why do you consider ash junk?

jon12345 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2006, 10:27:39 pm »

oops mis-type.... are not removing all the ash, just all the 'bad' ones - some are split, multiple stems, too close to one another, crooked stems.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:33:47 pm »

There is nothing real special about this tree. But it's a Norway spruce as near as I can tell. And it looks like it was planted. But I think it got mixed in with the black spruce seed because the planting crew planted black spruce here. I have planted some red spruce as well as some white here, but none go back as fair as 1996 in this section.

I was struck by this particular tree because of it's form, branching, foliage color (yellow-brown stem and yellow-green needles), and it's spectacular leader growth over the last two years. It has been growing 33 inches, 2 years running and the 3rd year hence it grew 24 inches. Most of the spruce on the nicer microsites of the plantation have grown 14-18 inches. This is my little 'plus tree', to bad I won't be around when it's 3 feet on the stump.

This is definately one of them trees that deserves the 'pill bottle treatment'. So what's that? Well there is a gentleman woodlot owner that keeps a little pill bottle attached to a branch of a few of his special trees, where he rights down the change in diameter growth from time to time and when it might have been thinned around or planted.

11.3 foot tall Norway spruce.

33 inch leader

I had to edit this post because my initial measurements were estimates

way off, the actual measurements are even longer

jon12345 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:56:03 pm »

Yesterday I started thinning, I only had a tank of gas though because my 1 gal can was empty and 2 ga can was m.i.a.

Dropped a bunch of small ash, pruned a cherry and a couple apple. I left the ash whole so I could drag them to the burn pile easier, when I walked through there today - the deer had devoured every single bud. the strange thing is, the deer seemed to know dropped trees = food. After walking further, I came across an elm that had died while it was standing and had just fallen, there were deer tracks surrounding that as well which further confirmed my suspicions. Now my only concern is that the deer won't stop with the ash and start chewing off the tops of the young maples I am trying to promote. - Maybe I can build a fence out of the trees I cut to keep them out

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2006, 07:53:55 pm »

If you make afence out of the fresh trees you cut, the deer will just eat them on the way to the maples.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:28:24 pm »

I would have considered leaving the ash until the maples had some more height. Safety in numbers. At least your deer aren't as hard on tree bark as moose. They'll ruin a piece of ground over winter.

We run into the problem of thinning hardwood stands with taller poplar. The crews seem to want to cut out the hardwood. Often times the hardwood are only 3 meters, and should be 4, I prefer 5. So you get some contractor trying to make the stand fit criteria by leaving poplar.

I've seen some nice maple develop in poplar stands without having to thin it. Having said that I thinned about an acre of a similar stand but I favored the maple, ironwood, spruce and fir even though the hardwood was a bit short. If I left it for another 3 or 4 years the poplar would be too big to get down. So, anyway I walked in there this winter and the hardwood are doing nicely. Those poplar are just good nurse trees. If you have large-toothed the growth is faster them trembling, almost double.

jon12345 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2006, 09:03:13 pm »

The supressed maple I'm trying to release, are the same age as ones I transplanted to the lawn, trees on lawn are 8-10' ones under ash are 3' max. It is really amazing how well the ones on the lawn grew after I 'released' them by transplanting - I never thought they would grow so well after that trauma to their root system

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2006, 09:27:23 pm »

Yes, I've done the same with sugar maple and they really do grow fast once established on the new site. Three foot annual height growth isn't uncommon. I'll take some pics tommorrow with the tape measure. Mine are in partial shade of spruce. Now on the other hand I have some black ash I transplanted that have hardly grown in 20 years. I think they are slower than ironwood.

jon12345 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:37:10 pm »

3' a year growth will put a lot of the terminals out of deer browse height.

The ones I transplanted are to form a hedgrow between the lawn and goldenrod patch,and are shaded in the morning by a 40' elm. My biggest problem was keeping the morning glory off of them

I need to rethink where I'm going to transplant more though, if any. I was going to plant in the whole goldenrod, but I can't because I don't want the horseradish growin there to die off.

BTW << look what I made

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:46:00 am »

Yeah I see what you made.

I have some white ash out in an old flower bed that get's morning glory. Can thank great grand mother for that stuff. I have to pull it or unwind it off the trees a couple times a year.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** February 16, 2006, 11:26:37 am »

Difference in aspen growth on same ground. The taller stems are large toothed and the short are trembling.

54 inch internodal growth of transplanted sugar maple. Growing in partial shade from white spruce.

Closer look

jon12345 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 16, 2006, 12:30:55 pm »

There was only 1 trembling here, it blew over. I cut it up and it had all kinds of sprouts on it. Before I thought about making it clones, all the sprouts died. I did go by there yesterday and noticed a sprout or 2 comin up by the root ball. I think I'll wait til tey get a little bigger, then start clonin

The thing I like about those is that they do grow so DanG fast.

jon12345 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 16, 2006, 12:55:59 pm »

here are a couple 'before' pictures.

The blue lines are 4wheeler trails that will continue to be maintained. The red line is where I'm putting in a hedgerow. The space between is goldenrod, but we get horseradish out of there in the spring

Where the brushpile is used to be a garden, that is where I am going to plant my aspen clones if succesful. That little evergreen on the right I might have some questions about

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** February 16, 2006, 01:59:24 pm »

I didn't think anything could kill horse radish. Can't even smother it with earth. Father cleared off an old homestead for field. The horse radish came back up and he plowed and sprayed herbicide on that field for 40 years and never did kill it.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #32 on:** February 16, 2006, 02:02:54 pm »

Cloning aspen isn't so easy unless you use rooting hormone. Balm on the another hand doesn't require rooting hormone, grows like raspberry canes.

jon12345 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 16, 2006, 03:06:29 pm »

I've never seen horseradish growin under anything, so I'd rather just leave it alone.

I'd have to travel north to find any balsam. Maybe I will just search the woods

I want to plant some specimens too. How many species do you have growin there?

of the top of my head all we have is:
sugar maple
red maple
apple
butternut
ash
black cherry
red pine
lilac
salix spp. that got brought in with some fill
and the newly found 'mystery' tree

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #34 on:** February 16, 2006, 04:25:53 pm »

Ok, I think you mean on your woodlot. Because you have more than that state wide. Ok, here is my list on the woodlot, there are some others on my house property as well.

Softwoods
black spruce (seedlings)
white spruce
red spruce (seedlings)
balsam fir (moose food, but not preferred)

white pine (seedlings)
red pine (seedlings)
hemlock (seedlings)
northern white cedar
tamarack (seedlings)
canada yew

hardwoods
trembling aspen (moose, grouse food)
large toothed aspen (moose food)
balsam poplar (moose food)
white birch (moose, grouse food)
yellow birch (moose, grouse food)
gray birch (moose, grouse food)
american elm
basswood (stump sprout selective)
butternut (seedlings)
black walnut (seedlings)
white ash
black ash
ironwood
sugar maple
red maple (moose food)
striped maple (moose food)
mountain maple (moose food)
willow (various species) baby moose food

black cherry
pin cherry
choke cherry
apple
northern red oak (seedlings, saplings)
scarlet oak (seedlings)
beech (seedlings)
beaked hazel
dogwood (various species)
fly honeysuckle
bush honeysuckle
red berried elder (grouse food)
high bush cranberry (grouse food)
speckled alder (grouse food)

Everything is snow shoe hare food

At the house I have some others not mentioned

blue spruce
japanese larch
european larch
jack pine
box elder
lilac
wigellia (spelling)
sour cherry
service berry
mountain ash

That's all I can think of.

jon12345 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 16, 2006, 09:09:54 pm »

I want to add more softwoods for sure. Red pines and that little shrubby lookin thing in the pic are all we got here now. I will probably collect seed for them and try it like that. I want to add

norway spruce
black spruce
red spruce
white pine
cedar
hemlock

white oak
red oak
yellow birch - we had 1 in the yard but its coming down sooon

This is just for starters, I want to grow at least 1 of every possible species I can

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2006, 09:15:49 pm »

Got some wet spots? Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp. Got deer? The absolutely love little white pine. I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival. The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #37 on:** February 17, 2006, 07:27:22 am »

Quote from: Minnesota_boy on February 16, 2006, 09:15:49 pm

Got some wet spots? Black spruce and cedar prefer their feet a bit damp. Got deer? The absolutely love little white pine. I made a chicken wire fence around each of my white pines that I've transplanted to improve their chance of survival. The wire is 4 feet high to keep them from reaching over and nipping off the terminal bud.

I don't know if 'prefer' is the optimum term. They will definately do better on well drained soil. I have some black spruce planted in 1996, those near wet ground are 1 to 3 feet tall, those in well drained sandy clay loam are 6 to 12 feet tall.

I have tamarack in wet ground that seem to grow about as well as on dryer ground. Cedar grows faster on moist well draind ground than in swampy mushy ground. As far as white pine, if the hare doen't prune them to death the moose take thier antlers and rub off the bark and limbs.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2006, 01:46:02 pm »

Ok, so I had to add this picture of the 'Pill Bottle Treatment'

Inside the pill bottle is a pencil and a datasheet used to record the growth of the tree and any treatments to the stand during the development of the tree. I will be installing pill bottles on a number of trees this year as it's been 10 years since the first plantation was established. I have some hardwood and other softwoods eyed for special attention.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #39 on:** February 26, 2006, 02:25:29 pm »

Ok, I usually walk over my plantations with eyes wide open and am always aware of what is happening even if it seems trivial. What I have noticed for quite some time is, there is a significant difference in the growth increment between different seedling sources. What really rings true here is that I'm finding a significant difference in growth based on needle size. Now all my trees in this non scientific survey are spaced equally and are not over topped by other trees or weeds. The ground is the same soil type. The year they were planted has a 2 year gap between one source and another. I compared needles from two sample clippings with 20 other trees selected as random as neccessary. One sample clipping was taken from one of my best seedlings from DNR, planted in 1996. The other clipping was from a tree of one of the best seedlings from a private forest nursery. The two clippings where within 100 meters of one another and the aspect of both sites in south. Here is a picture of the clippings below.

The top clipping is from a DNR tree, the bottom is from the private nursery. So what is the significance of this? I've noticed that trees with larger needles put on growth 20 - 50 % faster than trees with needles 10-30 % smaller. The size in this study can vary by width or length. As I said, this is unscientific, but when you walk these plantations it's as plain as light vs dark. The species I'm comparing is black spruce, probably the most studied/nurtured tree species in Canada. I'm now about on the web to search for any published papers on the subject. I can't believe that such a study has been overlooked. Anyone with some info on this?

cheers

Ianab · « **Reply #40 on:** February 26, 2006, 11:19:09 pm »

Swamp.

Is it possible that one seedling was seed grown and another was grown from a cutting? Even though both seedlings are the same age the cloned is genetically already 5 or 10 years old and will switch from juvenile growth to an adult growth mode much faster. Cuttings are often used for pine trees here in NZ for that reason, they grow faster and better form as they dont spend their first few years in a juvenile growth mode.

Just an idea, otherwise, well maybe one just came from genetically superior seed stock?

Cheers

Ian

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #41 on:** February 27, 2006, 06:34:24 am »

No they were from seed, but the seed was from two different seed orchards. I have long said that the seedlings this private nursery has been selling are culls. We can't get seedlings from DNR any longer, they all get planted on Crown Land.

crtreedude · « **Reply #42 on:** February 27, 2006, 08:57:52 am »

The difference between certified teak seed and the other stuff is amazing. Your source of plants can make a profound difference in a few years. Not all seedlings are created equal.

Also, how they are planted creates a huge difference as well. I am sure you know all this - but just thought I would coment on it anyway.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #43 on:** February 27, 2006, 10:25:55 am »

Same planting crew, same techniques. Just what I've come to realize, cull trees.

All I know is that if I compare the best microsites of one area to the other, the DNR trees are twice as tall and only 2 years difference.

And where you plant the little tree (microsite) makes a very significant difference in growth. Sometimes you'll get someone not thinking and he sticks a tree in a dip in the ground where water lays and the trees there won't grow 4 inches a year even. They'll look like a 3 year old seedling and they have been there 10.

But, I was comparing trees that were on good microsites. Anyway it sure is interesting. Also, if you have raspberry, it slows them up quite a bit too. They'll grow up through it, but they will be spindly and week for a bit once they get above it. Probably a 3 year delay in response to release from what I'm able to judge.

crtreedude · « **Reply #44 on:** February 27, 2006, 12:01:34 pm »

Yes, there is a lot of varation between sites - we have a few trees looking weird right now - perhaps 20 or so - and I suspect it is because we just found a large pit of black volcanic sand! Not sure yet.

This is sure interesting.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #45 on:** February 27, 2006, 03:01:25 pm »

Some microsites even look wet because of the vegetation and periodic high water table, but as long as it's not saturated during the growing season and the water is draining well so it's not stagnet, the trees will grow just as well as on a well drained knoll. I've experimeted with those kinds of sites, you just have to be careful planting the tree and also be aware that it is more susceptible to windthrow when it gets big. I've been on some spruce sites in the wild and your just walking on roots all day. Some hard on the feet, but the spruce seem to be doing real well there as long as it's not stagnet ground water.

thecfarm · « **Reply #46 on:** February 27, 2006, 09:36:18 pm »

Just had to say something crtreedude.Now you have a scraf and earmuffs on?The snow is getting deep.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2006, 06:10:04 pm »

No pictures yet, probably not necessary, but I have been getting some of my ground ready for thinning this spring. I have some sections with a lot of sugar maple and ash within the planted stock. I wanted to make sure we left as much ash and maple as possible and good quality ones. The best way I can think of doing this is to flag the crop trees so the thinning saw operator does not have to slow up when he's spacing and selecting trees to leave. Just has to worry about spacing and getting the stuff to the ground. I want to leave the hardwood as tight as possible 5-6 feet preferably since they are not really that tall. I wouldn't treat the area yet if it weren't for the fact that some of the softwood is getting pretty big on some sections. We have about 12 acres to space on the woodlot next spring and I think close to 3 acres on the adjoining woodlot.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #48 on:** February 16, 2007, 07:00:54 pm »

I've come to the conclusion that the neighboring woodlot owner is crazier than a bag of hammers. Looks like he won't be having his stands thinned. Pretty soon they'll be too big and I'll here nothing but bad mouthing. Some people just can't be educated while their mouth is moving.

jon12345 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 17, 2007, 10:08:37 am »

The project I was working on at my mom's got put on hold, she said she wanted the junk out then told me to stop what I was doing. She likes trees that are dying, have multiple leaders and other defect.

What I did cut turned into bushes from stump sprouts, at lease the deer will have somethin to eat

The sugar maple in the area I cut is doing good except they are almost all double leaders, but I don't think that'll be a problem since I just want them to reach 9" asap.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #50 on:** February 17, 2007, 11:27:03 am »

I think it's the brush from the thinning that concerns your mom. I have an uncle like that. The thought of having anyone thin his ground would cause seizures.

A lot come from his uncle who would say: 'What good is that going to do me? Look at the brush, what an unsightly mess. What do I get out of this?' But, I could thin all that's doeable on ground owned by my folks.

jon12345 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 17, 2007, 02:22:11 pm »

If worse comes to worst a few years down the road at least there'll be a bunch of firewood. $:-\$

tonich · « **Reply #52 on:** February 18, 2007, 04:50:09 am »

Good job, SwampDonkey!
Another lovely thread here!
As I can see, you’re having a plenty of spare time there.

Don’t want to consider, if you have to calculate this expenses in the future log’s price.
Actually, where does the hobby end and business starts?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #53 on:** February 18, 2007, 07:21:51 am »

@ Toni

tonich · « **Reply #54 on:** February 21, 2007, 08:14:18 am »

OK!
Besides joking (SwampDonkey knows pretty well, I like joking) I must say that this is the most important thinning for hardwood stands. This isolation of forest defines the future composition. Always there are some species that are valuable and more desired. According to Murphy’s Law, it usually happens the weeds and bushes overcome if stand left unattended. In that big competition the most aggressive species are off-grades.

This is a pretty good example of good management. I know it takes many efforts and money. I hope that some day this forest will pay back with the most valuable sawlogs. I hope then SD will invite us all to see the result of his hard work. This is a good opportunity to play a host to annual pork roast. Personally, I’m looking forward it!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #55 on:** March 31, 2007, 08:02:58 pm »

Everything from the road toward the green perimeter has been thinned in 2005. There will be about 11 acres inside the green and we should have it spaced within a week with four fellas on the crew. I may wait until late in the fall because the road stays good in wet weather. Freezing and thawing in late November makes roads greasy. This road has no hills to slip and slide all over.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #56 on:** July 01, 2007, 04:40:53 pm »

Been poking around a little bit looking for newly germinated seedlings. I found 5 new butternut seedlings and 3 new oak seedlings and I flagged the locations to GPS later this year. I'm kind of like a squirrel, I know the general area the seeds where set into the ground. But, it takes some searching to find them. The leaves blend in with the surrounding ground veg.

ibseeker · « **Reply #57 on:** July 04, 2007, 12:44:37 pm »

I've been wondering what to do with the slash left when the loggers finish their selective clearing. I had considered renting a big chipper but the price versus benefit just didn't make sense. I also thought about burning it but hate to lose the benefit of the nutrional value of the slash as it decomposed. If I understand these pictures, I can just leave it on the ground and plant right in it. Is that true?

thecfarm · « **Reply #58 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:53:47 pm »

Sometimes the slash is left to prodtect the seedlings in some areas.If you have some that is really bugging you to look at,a little chainsaw work will hide it.Depends what kind of wood it is on how long it takes to rot and if it's up in the air or on the ground.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #59 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:13:50 pm »

Hardwood slash in our forests up here is usually gone within 10 years. Cedar and softwood slash can persist for a couple decades. On pre-commercial thinnings softwood slash disappears quicker because of the high humidity and moisture in under canopy. On our hardwood thinning blocks the initial (green) slash looks 3 feet deep. A week of sun and it's down to a foot and 1/2. By next spring a foot or less after the snow melts. On my lot the slash was not too bad in that small area, but it does slow you up a bit. The soil is wet in some areas so I had to pick the ideal spots. If you have tall hardwood tops, maybe planting in those tops can keep deer away. Just a thought.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #60 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:26:31 pm »

Found several new butternut seedlings this year on the woodlot and flagged the locations for future GPS. I have some new oak as well. Still searching for basswood when I get time.

tonich · « **Reply #61 on:** August 06, 2007, 08:39:43 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 16, 2006, 04:25:53 pm

Softwoods
black spruce (seedlings)
white spruce
red spruce (seedlings)
balsam fir (moose food, but not preferred)
white pine (seedlings)
red pine (seedlings)
hemlock (seedlings)
northern white cedar
tamarack (seedlings)
canada yew

hardwoods
trembling aspen (moose, grouse food)
large toothed aspen (moose food)
balsam poplar (moose food)
white birch (moose, grouse food)
yellow birch (moose, grouse food)
gray birch (moose, grouse food)
american elm
basswood (stump sprout selective)
butternut (seedlings)
black walnut (seedlings)
white ash
black ash
ironwood
sugar maple
red maple (moose food)
striped maple (moose food)
mountain maple (moose food)
willow (various species) baby moose food
black cherry
pin cherry
choke cherry
apple
northern red oak (seedlings, saplings)
scarlet oak (seedlings)
beech (seedlings)
beaked hazel
dogwood (various species)
fly honeysuckle
bush honeysuckle
red berried elder (grouse food)
high bush cranberry (grouse food)
speckled alder (grouse food)

Now,

What will be the exact/desired tree composition at mature stage for the final cutting?
How will be natural regeneration directed, towards what primary and secondary species and how?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #62 on:** August 06, 2007, 06:21:01 pm »

All the above.

Brushing, spacing and pruning as needed.

Most desirable is spruce, cedar, fir, aspen, white ash.

As far as final harvest, I'll be making fertilizer by then, but those top five species will be in abundance as with red maple. I may remove some aspen and fir in another 25 years, grows fast on my ground. A couple sections will be dominated by sugar maple with ash mixed in. Some area will be dominated with aspen mostly. Pruning will be done to hardwoods when the canopy closes in and trees are over 30 feet tall. 50 acres are spruce plantations, but when spacing we will be leaving a lot of other species mixed in.

First stage is establishment, second phase is pre-commercial thinning, third is commercial thinning of fir and aspen, fourth is pruning hardwood, fifth is a later commercial thinning to remove mostly junk and space the spruce more. I'll be long exhausted by this time.

tonich · « **Reply #63 on:** August 09, 2007, 09:54:50 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on August 06, 2007, 06:21:01 pm

I'll be long exhausted by this time.

Me too. Of long waithing.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #64 on:** November 22, 2007, 04:31:34 pm »

Was just thinking, 2013 will be the 20th anniversary of the last harvest of my woodlot. That's six more years. I was hoping (mostly trying to remember) to do an initial inventory of the woodlot by 2015 and every 10 (maybe 5) years hence. Mostly to see how much stuff grows on various stands in my woodlot. Kind of like watching interest accumulate on the savings. I've seen a big difference in the last 7 years.

What would make it most interesting is to establish permanent sample locations, by placing a permanent stake in for point centres. Don't mark any trees just do a prism cruise on each point and watch as trees get larger, the plot grows to include trees further away as they increase diameter. I won't loose many trees because my woodlot is young, but once in awhile you find a young tree that died and you wonder why. $:-\$

crtreedude · « **Reply #65 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:23:07 am »

Very interesting reading Swamp Donkey.

I am curious, I have alwa ys heard / read that northern forest tend to be less diverse than tropical and yet that is a very nice list of trees. Not as great as we would have, but still impressive. Is this normal?

A mature forest for us should have 200+ species.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #66 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:51:21 am »

The Acadian Forest Region (St. John River Valley Hardwood Forest Ecoregion), which is where I'm at, is a lot more diverse (tree species) than the Boreal forest to my north. We have some Boreal in the far NW part of New Brunswick and I would argue there is a large scope of it in the Christmas Mountain - Big Bald Mountain region as well. All but black walnut and scarlet oak (from the list above), are native here.

Natural history of the area

crtreedude · « **Reply #67 on:** November 23, 2007, 06:06:48 am »

It is probably in here somewhere - how big is your little piece of earth?

We just added to ours, now we are somewhere around 500 acres. I believe I still need to buy another 150 or so acres this year to have enough.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #68 on:** November 23, 2007, 06:28:59 am »

There is never enough land eh?

My lot is about 70 acres. Dad sold off about 380 acres on other farms.

Here are some shots of thinnings I'm doing on my tree plantations.

Selection of crop trees for maximum species diversity.

Hand selecting natural born hardwood crop trees within the plantation with flagging, sugar maple and white ash.

A lot of white ash here for future crop trees.

Lets not forget the red oak seedlings starting to take hold.

See? Not all of us are growing monocultures.

crtreedude · « **Reply #69 on:** November 23, 2007, 06:56:37 am »

Nice pictures SD. What a neat project! I am not yet ready to do it, but I have had in the back of my mind to purchase land in the North to do something similar. There are times of the year I might want to go and dry out.

Yes, you never seem to be able to get enough land. Each new piece is very interesting to me. I will say though it is pretty much impossible to fully explore 500 acres in the tropics.

I used to walk all of our property every week - now it is more like once a month and just the plantation areas. Someday I might get a life back, but who knows?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #70 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:29:18 pm »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 11, 2006, 01:33:47 pm

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

This season the tree suffered from undetermined insect damage and the current year's growth was killed. I have to take a set of pruners and cut back to a good bud (hit the restart button). I suspect sawfly or some shoot moth.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #71 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:56:19 pm »

Several more white pine have recently suffered from moose harassment. There are 2-3 moose determined to spend the winter, I see them almost every trip to the lot now.

tonich · « **Reply #72 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:31:33 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 23, 2007, 05:56:19 pm

There are 2-3 moose determined to spend the winter, I see them almost every trip to the lot now.

OK,
Please, don’t let them spoil the view I’m keen on!

Tom · « **Reply #73 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:26:19 pm »

Where will you make the cut and what would happen if you left the tree to it's own design?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #74 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:47:49 pm »

Tom, I guess I will have to go back to an internodal bud or shoot. If I don't prune it, it will have a 50/50 chance of being forked, probably closer to 80% chance. One shoot will eventually express dominance. I figure it's a lot better to prune a small shoot, rather than have the tree split in half some years down the road. See all those whorls of buds on that leader? They are all branch whorls now.

Tom · « **Reply #75 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:22:02 pm »

So what will you do, go back to that first whorl and cut all of the leaders, including the current apical bud, off at the base and leave just one of them to become the dominant apical/terminal bud?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #76 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:43:21 pm »

Ok, I thought it would be interesting to see how much volume is present in 2007 on my thinned section of the woodlot. I used a plot radius of 10 m and a plot spacing of 100 meters. I will update the table as I gather the data. Trees 6 feet and taller are measured.

Update: Nov 26,2007 # plots: 14 Stand #: 3 Area: 10 ha

SPECIES TALLY DENSITY(st/ha) BASAL AREA(m²/ha) VOLUME(m³/ha) CORD/AC

Black Spruce 434 987 1 4 0.716
White Spruce 38 86 + 1 0.179
Red Spruce 0 0 0 0 0
Balsam Fir 287 653 2 7 1.253
White Pine 4 9 + + +
Red Pine 0 0 0 0 0
Larch 16 36 + + +
Cedar 5 11 + + +
Aspen 93 212 + 1 0.196
Red Maple 84 191 + 1 0.196
Sugar Maple 29 89 + + +
Black Ash 21 48 + + +
White Ash 38 86 + + +
White Birch 2 5 + + +
Yellow Birch 1 2 + + +
Red Oak 1 2 + + +
Ironwood 0 0 0 0 0
Elm 0 0 0 0 0
Basswood 0 0 0 0 0
Butternut 0 0 0 0 0
Cherry 0 0 0 0 0
=================================================================
Total 1063 2418 3 14 2.54

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #77 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:49:52 pm »

Not sure yet Tom. I'll have to assess it a bit. I'll take pictures of the process of selection.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #78 on:** November 25, 2007, 12:48:00 pm »

Here is the Norway spruce damage.

Damaged leader

We've just diagnosed the bug as white pine weevil. Yup it hits spruce to, but mostly Norway spruce and White spruce.

tonich · « **Reply #79 on:** November 27, 2007, 09:24:52 am »

Weevils are usually polyphages. Nevertheless they are commonly spread among young pine/spruce plantations here, they appear as secondary insects. Usually they are attracted by weakened trees, which have some sort of physiology disturbance.
In your particular case, the soil might be not drained enough if it is a flat/low country (it looks to me so), which might be critical for the good physiology sometimes. Spruce prefers moist sites, but still well drained.

Another good reason for spreading their influence could be a number of stumps, which are ideal places for hibernation.

The worst thing here is that hit is somewhere around the zone of best quality logs. Thus it probably can affect the future log price. On the other hand, I hope you don’t have many trees attacked.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #80 on:** November 27, 2007, 10:03:41 am »

It is flat ground with gentle rises. Soil is sandy clay loam and gravelly on elevated sites and organic with gravel on low sites. There is no heavy clay and the root restricting layer is shallow because the water table fluctuates seasonally. The highest sites seem to favor hardwoods and fir and lower ground favors more cedar, aspen and spruce. Fir on the low ground is necrotic. But, the tree has been growing fast the last 3 years, over 30 inches a year. It's growing on an elevated site. Can't count height growth this year because the weevils killed the top. In 2006 the tree grew 33 inches.

At eleven years since planting, the volume is about 2.5 cords/acre. It was the same for 5, 10 and 14 plots measured.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #81 on:** November 04, 2008, 12:27:11 pm »

A small piece of land I own across the opposite side of my brook needed tending where the softwood were growing. Today, I took the brush saw and made the 1 km hike to the back of the lot. I had to walk across a small wetland and later a small beaver dam to reach the softwood.

Here is the site before the job.

The beavers have been busy lately, cutting aspen in behind the fir stand for winter food.

After the first tank. I found a few spruce along the bank of the stream, a couple in the foreground here.

The images are a bit fogged up, because my lens got condensation between steam rolling off me and high humidity of the air. A couple of images in the middle of it after the job was done. It took me about 4 tanks to cut about 1/2 an acre. I was done at 12:00 pm.

One last shot from the beaver dam looking back as I was exiting the site. This is the same vantage as the first picture. Used wide angle lens.

I pruned the buts up 5 or 6 feet with the brush saw as well.

After the first picture I took crossing the dam, I managed to sink up to my knees in muck and water, so that was nice.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #82 on:** November 04, 2008, 07:38:47 pm »

The hardwoods in the middle two pictures where sugar "rock" maples. The beavers like to cut them to.

Mooseherder · « **Reply #83 on:** November 04, 2008, 09:11:05 pm »

Looks like a Moose friendly lot.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #84 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:39:31 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 25, 2007, 12:48:00 pm

Here is the Norway spruce damage.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Damaged leader

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

We've just diagnosed the bug as white pine weevil. Yup it hits spruce to, but mostly Norway spruce and White spruce.

The spruce has recovered from the damage and little evidence of any damage unless you look thoroughly. The new leader is growing straight as an arrow.

The tree is now over 6 meters and has doubled in girth.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #85 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:58:35 am »

This is what the spruce looks like today.

tonich · « **Reply #86 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:36:47 am »

This thread is one of my favorites!
Keep on posting!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #87 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:53:00 am »

Can't say too much at this stage, but from what I've seen in 2-4 years growth since the thinning (this will be year 3 and 5), depending on section treated, it's probably better than fertilizer alone since the trees have more room to put on volume. I updated some measurements in the pill bottles the last couple days. The moose spent the whole winter in the woodlot, but they don't hold up this winter in any one area, not much snow.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #88 on:** April 05, 2010, 06:38:07 pm »

I brushed out one of my side lines this morning and I came across a small patch of taller fir and spruce that I thought I had better touch up with the 550. The beavers have been removing the balm-of-gilead out of it this spring it seems. Anyway a good deed done on that patch and carried on into neighboring plantation to finish out the tank. I need to do my north line some time, but looks to be wet weather a few days coming. Then I will also brush my trail on the way back to the car. I have about 12 acres I'm going to be spacing sometimes, but maybe not until next year.

It's on the same line as the previous thinning and about 400 feet to the east on the other side of the beaver pond. Those buggers are really flooding a lot land down stream. Darn things. There was a nice stand of white cedar coming back on the neighbor's lot real good until they destroyed about 10 acres of it with flooding. That's what clear cutting invites, beavers.

BrandonTN · « **Reply #89 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:12:23 pm »

Hey SwampDonkey, fall is here....good weather to be out in your woodlot. Is the commercial thinning of the fir and aspen next?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #90 on:** September 24, 2010, 05:30:59 am »

Another 20 years Brandon, the oldest thinnings are 5 years old now. Some of the fir buts are over 8 inches across, but that is not the average since there were two harvest entries years before and some fir is ahead of others. I'd say though, that most are at 4 inches. I keep records on certain trees in a little bottle I tie on a wire. That's if the bear leave them bottles alone.

As to being there in the fall, it will be late fall as I'm still thinning on crown land, probably into late November if I don't get snowed out.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #91 on:** October 22, 2011, 05:16:21 pm »

Here are some photos of 6 year old thinning on my woodlot.

This shows tamarack I planted in 2002, beside black spruce planted in 1996.

This is a section of natural that has sizes ranging from 3"-6" in view. The dominant trees are around 32 feet. You can see the lower limbs dying now and soon will prune up.

Another area of natural here with some older fir 4" to 10", with the biggest around 50 feet tall. There is a dead yellow birch there that I think was killed by herbicide. Been dead for some years.

This area is in plantation, but between planted rows is balsam fir 3"-7" mostly, some 8"-10" scattered in it, bigger sizes are sparse up to 16". I believe these in the photo are 7" and around 32 feet. One behind me and at the end of the stick.

Here is a largetooth aspen which only appear in small groups and not very common on the lot. It's 10" and 53 feet tall.

Here is a butternut near the main road I planted (the nut) in 2004 I think.

This balsam fir is 20" and 68 feet tall. It has reached it's potential and beyond and the ants and wood buzzards are at it now. Surprising the crown is still all green and the pitch blisters still look decent on the bark. But once they are attacked this way they are usually gone in 3 or 4 years. Some of the trouble was harvest damage to some trees. This tree may not actually be real old.

On the neighboring lot there is 10 acres where they are in the same shape and destined for worm food.

WDH · « **Reply #92 on:** October 22, 2011, 08:08:42 pm »

Looking good there, SD.

(I mean the woods

).

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #93 on:** October 23, 2011, 07:03:52 am »

This year I also cleaned another 14.5 acres of plantation with a "clearing" saw. The trees planted in the first photo of this thread where part of the area. I had a few balsam poplar and white cedar that needed to be spaced and cut from those spruce. One area on a gravelly bank was invaded by a lot of white cedar, it was solid green. Some areas where kind of marginal because of drainage, but had lots of tree count for crop trees. That pretty much completed the first phase of thinning.

tonich · « **Reply #94 on:** November 13, 2011, 02:05:25 am »

I may have to take a chance and visit that plantation myself!
Have to start planning the visit.

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Author Topic: Tending your little piece of earth (Read 15398 times)