Hard water white pine removal

[Kevin]

I've been waiting since last Fall to drop this puppy.


Some nice wood ...

[Jeff]

Do you get to keep the logs Kevin?

[Furby]

That is a nice tree!

[Kevin]

Yes Jeff, the logs were hauled across the lake to another cottage where I'll bring the mill in the Spring and saw them into 4/4 for kitchen cupboards.



There's never a problem attracting an audience when they think there's a chance of dropping a large tree on a cottage. 

[Dana]

What kind of ice thickness do you have up there? Our inland lakes only had 8 or so inches of marginal ice a couple weeks ago. I am sure that has changed since the weather has turned much colder.

[Kevin]

I had to save a hand made stone wall at the red arrow. 

Lots of ice Dana but we had to make an ice road before skidding the logs out due to the slush.
I couldn't leave the trail at all for the slush.

[Kevin]

This is the German lady that hired me, Mary Anne.

[Ironwood]

Must be a very special mill to cut them right into kitchen cabinets!!! I hope it's patented! 


             Reid

[Chet]

Keven,
I usually ask new customers where they want der new skylight. Da customer normally gives me dat same look.    But it's a great crowd pleaser.   

[Shotgun]

Nice pics and a neat story, Kevin. Great tree. Good job.   

Hey, Chet.  How many skylights have ya made?   

Norm

[Tom]

Standing next to it sure improves the reference to size.   Wow!  that's a big one.

[leweee]

There's never a problem attracting an audience when they think there's a chance of dropping a large tree on a cottage. 

I'd pay money for a video of that

Chet ...I like the skylight suggestion

Kevin ....great job & thanks for sharing those pics

[Mr Mom]

     The pictures are great.
     Now if i did it the tree would have gone throught the ice.




     Thanks Mr Mom

[SwampDonkey]

Kevin, my mother talked my poor old grandfather into dropping, bucking and skidding out by horse on river ice, 3 big old pine and their logs. She wanted cupboard to from the pine. Well the pine laid too long in spring and when they were sawed that nice pine all got green stain and borer peck and the wood was sent to the bomb fire pile.  Hope ya take care of them pine right quick in the spring. 

Great show and pics. I can see the same crowd around here with out stretched goose knecks over seeing such a job.

[jon12345]

A tree that big falling onto the ice really gives you an idea of how strong the ice can  be.

What did you do with the limbs, leave them where they lay for some post ice out fish habitat

[Kevin]

We loaded up the limbs on the log arch and took them across the lake with the logs where they will be burnt, every last little stick and there's a bunch, we also raked the ice.

It would have been better to pile the stuff in the bush but it would be considered dumping.
It's like hunting for moose, all the fun ends when you put one down. 
The logs will be on the mill probably in March, all I need is one nice day.

[Coon]

Kevin,  what was the length and diameter of the tree.  How many logs of what length did you get?  How many bdft do you estimate that you will get out of that single tree??  We need specs....
Brad.

[Quebecnewf]

Kevin

What type of machine did you use to pull the log with and on what type of sleigh. I am logging now . I cut 45 logs yesterday all spruce and fir. I use a VK540 Yamaha Snowmobile and a home built sleigh. I have to travel about 14 klm one way. Half of this distance is over the frozen sea ice. Logs are getting harder to get in this region. If I can cut and haul 300 this winter I will be lucky. Hoping to buy 400 from another guy. These I will raft and tow home by boat.

Paul

[Kevin]

Brad, looking at 30"dbh nice and straight, a quick guess on the length would be 75 ft.
I think we had six logs, didn't estimate bf but I guessed at 160, 6" fence boards in one log.
The bottom logs would go around 1450 lbs.

Paul, that's the Argo.
The larger version is the CENTAUR which would be better suited for what you do.

[Coon]

Thanks Kevin.  Glad to see that you're working hard and performing for an audience at the same time.  We have many spruce that size on our woodlot and we try to get as many 16 footers out as possible.  Seems like that is what sells the best around here.

Would like to see some more pics of that argo?  What size of engine does it have?  What style of cletes does the tracks have.  I am building a tracked skidder unit out of an old Subaru DL front wheel drive car.  Does that argo's drive system drive from the front or the rear?

Thanks in advance.
Brad.

[Kevin]

4 cycle overhead valve V-Twin liquid cooled Kawasaki FD 620 engine, electronic ignition, 20 HP, 617 cc .
These specific tracks are plastic with very little cleat.
I have chains I can bolt on for added traction if neeeded.
The new machines have rubber tracks with larger cleats.
It's an all wheel chain drive with the engine in the front.

 

[Dana]

Kevin was that hard water in "taking a bath" not hard enough ? Ipainted an argo for a guy in our bodyshop once. He said they float and move about a mile an hour in the water is that right?

[Kevin]

That's about right. 
The nice thing is they are just a plastic tub and don't get stuck, you can push them through mud with a pole.
When you go through the ice you have to back up onto the ice because the weight of the engine keeps the nose down a bit.

[Coon]

Thanks once again Kevin, much appreciated.  Did you put that roll cage on it?  Does the machine run the tracks with hydraulic motors on each side?  I am asking these question because inquiring minds want to know.  As I ask these questions I have been trying to picture how these things would work on my tracked skidder unit tha I have started to build.

My general plans to date for driving the unit is to install a drive sprocket off of each front drive axle.  These sprockets will inturn each run a chain to a steering clutch off of an old self-propelled swather.  Each steering clutch will then run the front wheel.  The engine in the car is a h4 subaru w/ 3 spd automatic.  I was wondering if this sounds like a reasonable idea?-- simply installing tracks under the car so to speak.  I am also planning on running some kind of breaking system for slowing down and stopping but haven't figured out how yet.  Hydraulics are simply running a pump or two off of the engines belt system and installing a blade and winch.  Do you think this whole plan is feasable?  Do you have any better suggestions?  Need more info, please.
Brad.

[Kevin]

They have hydraulic brakes that lock one side while you drive the other to make it turn, skid steer.
Chain drive front to back.
That's a rack and not  ROP, the guys at the shop built it and added it when I bought the machine.
You can get ROP for it but I needed the rack.

[Max sawdust]

What did you do with the limbs, leave them where they lay for some post ice out fish habitat

We loaded up the limbs on the log arch and took them across the lake with the logs where they will be burnt, every last little stick and there's a bunch, we also raked the ice.

Trees in the water are the very best cover for fish, especially in the northern lakes that have very few weeds.  It is my opinion that any chance you get to leave a big section of tree in the water will do the lake good.
max

[Coon]

Max.
 I beg to differ.  Evergreen trees are very high in acid.  Although one tree will not significantly raise the acidity level of the water body,  I do believe that if it hadn't fallen into the water or onto the ice naturally it does not belong there.  It takes only one person to start an almost irremoveable (very long term)process that in turn changes the ecosystem of the water body.  If everyone started to do this we would lose many of the fish and habitat, if not all.  It often takes hundreds of years to bring the acidity levels down to normal.  Many lakes to the northeast of here in the Porcupine Provincial Forest Reserve do not have fish in them due to these reasons.  Windy Lake  used to have a sawmill where spruce was sawn on the ice in winter.  This was back in the 1920's and 30's and acid levels are presently twice the normal content of what it should be.  I have sent some pics away to be scanned for use on the forum.  I will show you how they had the whole lumber camp and mill set up.  If I can also find my local history book I will share some of the writeups.
Brad.
 

[Max sawdust]

Coon,
OK The way I said that was not to bright on my part
Yes Pine has much acidity, and acidity is a problem in many NE lakes.  Setting up a mill on a lake or everyone dragging trees to a lake would not be good   Especially Pine, now that you made me think about it.

My line of thought was on lake shore development, where everyone wants a sandy beach and a pier.  They clear all the wood out of the water and then create constant waves with water skiing and jet skis.  This hurts the Eco system along the shore line.  No sun-dew, no pitcher plant, no sphagnum moss, no orchids, just rocks and mud.

I am not an expert on this subject, just speaking from what I see around me   Our little lake has lots of natural tree falls into the water, and it is about the only cover for fish, and a great diversity of plants and animals.

Thanks for the correction and making me think
Max

[Coon]

Sorry about jumping on you like that, but is in my greatest concern to help the environment out.  I hear what you are saying though.
Brad.

[Bill Johnson]

Now Kevin I wasn't going to ask about the trash on ice (being the polite fellow I am ) but its good to know it was all cleaned up and taken care of.

Nice tree.

[Kevin]

Bill, I even took a branch and covered up my tracks as I backed out of there.

[Ironwood]

.  I am building a tracked skidder unit out of an old Subaru DL front wheel drive car. 

   


You goota love that, making a skidder out of a SUBARU!! I have owned soooo many of those. I have beat the snot out of most and they just keep going. I think I have had, ............7 or 8 loyals, one legecy, now a 2003 forester (with a knock around 1985 Loyal at the shop). I skidded trees at my Grandmas farm with one, another I hauled a very heavy (3000lb) loaded canoe trailer up a insanely steep gravel road on the Yough river when a co workers Rover broke down. The tranny was never the same but we got the boats into the water and I (or the on lookers) will never forget what that little car did that day. It was the loosest washed out steepest road/ trail you could imagine that would be passable by truck/ van. It really defied gravity
                Reid

[Kevin]

This is the end result of that White Pine that was taken just across the lake from this cottage.

[SwampDonkey]

Nice cupboards bub.   

Mom had my poor grandfather take horses and yard white pine logs to make cupboards. He cut the trees to fall out over the river on the ice and he yarded the logs down the ice and up a gully to a road. The pine laid too long in the following spring/summer and they turned blue green with mold when sawed. 

[Kevin]

The carpenter must have went out of his way to find boards with knots because most of that was clear. 

[WDH]

Those cupboards are beautiful, Kevin.  It is very satisfying to go from a live tree to a finished product all on your own with no commercial retailers in the loop.  99.9% of people cannot do that.

We are lucky and blessed at the same time to be able to do that.

[SwampDonkey]

The carpenter must have went out of his way to find boards with knots because most of that was clear. 

The ladies like the knotty pine look. 

[Kevin]

This is what they use to look like.
The logs were milled at that same cottage with the LT-15.

[nas]

The carpenter must have went out of his way to find boards with knots because most of that was clear. 

Was the carpenter working on a trade?  It's amazing how you can give a carpenter clear lumber and the finished product has knots in it .  If you go to his house he probably has some nice clear pine cabinets in his kitchen.   I've heard of the same thing happening at sawmills when they are sent a clear log and the lumber comes back very low grade.  A couple of guys like that will give the whole trade a bad name.
  That being off my back, the cabinets look great!  Is the countertop also pine?

  By the way did you skid the logs with the Argo? how big a log can you skid in the winter with it?

[SwampDonkey]

Brings up the thought of the time I took an elm of 30 inches (but end), 8 feet long to a portable mill and it morphed into oak and a reply "what elm?", when I asked for it. 

[leweee]

This is what they use to look like.
The logs were milled at that same cottage with the LT-15.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Did she run out of gas in the cut......or was ya just toppen her off.

BTW Nice Kitchen Cupboards

[nas]

There is the flip side of that.  I had a guy bring me a 24" "walnut" that was actually a butternut but I was sure to tell him before I milled it.

  

Brings up the thought of the time I took an elm of 30 inches (but end), 8 feet long to a portable mill and it morphed into oak and a reply "what elm?", when I asked for it. 

 Did you get 100 bft instead of 300 too?

  Judging by the mess in some small mills yards I think sometimes they honestly don't know where your wood is so they give you the first unclaimed pile they can find

[SwampDonkey]

Never got a darn sniff. I think he skipped wood ID class in Ranger School or something. But, as I drove out of the yard with some of my newly sawed lumber, from other hardwood logs that laid in the grass at the mill site for 2 years , I took a quick peek in his shed and saw my elm stickered in a stack. Good riddance and never to return. All I know is he lost a lot of business over the years for being a crook.

[nas]

Honesty is always the best policy.  When you get caught dealing crooked the word spreads fast.  Word of mouth can be your best or worst advertising.

[beenthere]

From the looks of the log on the mill, under Kevin, there are plenty of knots showing on the bark surface.   Don't think many clear boards will come from that section. 

[SwampDonkey]

I didn't want to say anything, but.......... 

Even if the log looks clear there could be old healed knots closer to the pith as you start shaving off those boards.

 

[Kevin]

I suspect the bottom log was clear but can't remember.
I can't remember if the mill ran out of gas either, it looks like it might have.
Those bottom logs are probably around 1500 lbs., I do remember we had to have at least four people in the Argo for weight to pull them.

Is the countertop also pine?

Yes, also pine.

[WDH]

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Kevin,

You are not going to be able to burl that log unless you release those dogs!  Floating it in a little water would help too .

I tried log burling in college........I was a miserable failure.  Up on the log, then SPLASH!  Usually face first .

[OneWithWood]

Very nice work, Kevin. 

[SwampDonkey]

What, WDH? You don't know the log driver's waltz?


  I remember the National Film Board had a video of a log drive and a little song along with it. It starts out with actual log drivers in the beginning, then switches to a cartoon waltzing on a log during the drive.