tractor for small time logging

[wesdor]

To address your original question - will a small tractor do the job you want?  (or something like that).

I bought a John Deere 4310 a year ago and have been using it to do much of what you describe.  (nothing bigger than 12 dbh and easy trails).  So far it has done a fine job.  I was going to suggest you look at a Kioti as well, but someone else has covered that.

A couple of suggestions.   First, be sure to get 4wd.  Second, I would want a gear drive tractor.  I probably am way too old school, but the hydrostatic drive just doesn't seem up to doing the kind of work I perceive you will be doing.  

Now if you could lay your hands on a grapple tractor cheap - that would really be a great answer - at least in my opinion.  Most of all, I'm hearing you say you have a lmited budget and that describes my situtaion as well.

Good luck.

[beenthere]

wesdor
I wouldn't turn away from the HST transmission, as I get along great with my Deere4300 in the woods pulling out logs, (and bigger than 12 dbh).  I used to have a gear transmission and could get around just fine with that too. But the HST is much handier to manuever, IMO.  The 4310 has the HST with the ehydro which will not let one kill the engine with overload.

The tractor that I have is not 'dressed' up well for woods work, and serious damage can happen to sticks poking into the underbelly and hooking hydro lines, and things.  A serious belly pan is needed for a better woods tractor, but so far I pick carefully where I go and avoid, if possible, driving over cut tops and brush.  But doesn't take much for a tire to kick up a stick and place it in the most tender spots on a tractor. Part of the game of logging with one. 

[slowzuki]

I'll add my 2 cents, my kubotas a hydro and not prepped for woods work. 

Using a winch and paying attention when cutting your skid trails you can keep any tractor looking new.

Try to use a chain and you have to put your machine places it likely shouldn't go.  It will get worked over worse than a little drunky mouthy guy who spits in the bouncers face.

The HST is nice in the woods.  No jerking, nice smooth movements.  Gear tranny is nice too.  If you can get R-4 industrial tires they usually have a much heavier case.  Ag tires tend to get popped on slash or small stumps.

Don't drive over slash.  You do it a few times and you get lazy, it will rip anything and everything off the underside.  You may not notice until your PS stops working after your idling tractor pumped the fluid out.

Using a winch and compact tractor 3 point hitches.  Pulling from the high point for heavy loads is a no-no, try to use the lower pulley.  When draging the logs out use the pull bar slots or lower pulley.

Have fun and be safe!

[Larry]

I dunno...my 100 HP 4020 JD didn’t do a good job...to big and not nuff traction.  My 550 Oliver (similar to Ford 8-9 n’s except the motor is on steroids) didn’t do a good job either.  My 27 HP 4wd 1720 Ford doesn’t do a good job...but does manage to get it done.  Up to 18" dbh tree length.  Somebody got an additional 30 hp and maybe another 1,500 pounds to add to it?  Suspect it would be perfect than.

Few pictures in my gallery.
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=527
Don’t have a picture of my winch there...but if you do a search you will probably find a pic that I posted.

Spent today whacking off walnut trees and winching em out to my skid trails.  Gonna spend the day tomorrow skidding with the little 1720 so if ya want a pic let me know.

[maple flats]

I have used a 20 HP Ford 1500 4 x 4 ( about 2800 lbs as I have it plus the extra weights I add when needed) with a lot of extra weight when needed on the front(I have 99# always on the front bumper and have a bar that I add up to 200# more for heavy pulls, I don't leave weight on, no power steering and if not pulling too hard to steer) no loader. You do need to be real careful because flipping is a real possibility. I now use a 3 point log arch and have pulled whole trees with it if done as soon as the fall, limb them and pull @ up to 21" big end. I have no belly pan but it would be a good idea. When I pull, big or small I keep one hand on the lift arm control and keep my left foot on the trans case just above the clutch pedal. I also drag with 2 chains, 1 around the log for the arch to drag and a second from the fixed drawbar to to bottom of the log where it hooks to the other chain. I have chains on all four wheels and thus can pull a lot. Before I had the chains I could only pull about 1/2 the load I do now. As I pull I keep the log just off the ground and am always adjusting height as i drive. Not the best or easiest but this is all I have for now. I still occasionally get one hung up while dropping a tree where i need to borrow my brother's ASV with tracks, 70 HP and a log winch the we both own. My tractor does not have enough power to run the winch and I certainly could not carry the winch AND hook to a log and pull it. The only way I can do them this big now is with the log Arch which helps keep the weight real close to the back of the tractor. If I try to pull a heavy one and lift it very high the front spins without and weight on it, must keep the arms lower. This being said 20 HP is not very good for this. I do suggest 30 as a better choice for minimum. Oh, my extra weight is a pipe i mounted to the tractor on the front pipe on which I add 4-50# weight lifting plates?spring clamp, easy on easy off. My ground has almost no rocks and a lot of low spots, mostly black muckish stuff. I can not pull these areas during most of the year but mid winter and late summer I can. The rest of the time I must keep up a foot or 2 above the low spots and use more chain until I get it close enough to eliminate the extra chain.

[Max sawdust]

wesdor
I wouldn't turn away from the HST transmission, as I get along great with my Deere4300 in the woods pulling out logs, (and bigger than 12 dbh).  I used to have a gear transmission and could get around just fine with that too. But the HST is much handier to manuever, IMO.  The 4310 has the HST with the ehydro which will not let one kill the engine with overload.

Ya I am with the HST guys  with a small tractor you make a lot of trips and and HST is the way to go, at least for me.
4x4 is very good too.  If I was more handy I would find an older tractor they have a wider footprint and more steel  
Max

[thecfarm]

I would hate to go into the woods with anything smaller than my 40 hp Ford 4 wheel drive tractor with a winch with a loader.I've done it with a NAA Ford,little bigger than an 8-9n,was a pain most of the time.Yes,it's costly new,but used can be found,just takes time.I prefer the gear tranny too.I have a small  kubata with a HST that I would love to unload on someone.Works good for what I use it for,but not in the woods.If going looking at new,beware,most sales people will give you a big speak on how a 20-30 hp tractor can haul big logs.Not all the time they can't.Takes weight to haul log out.

[Corley5]

I'd love to have something like Mr Grapple the Beast.  That'd suit my needs to perfection

[Ironwood]

DANGEROUS DAN has someones tractor!!!! Beefy MASSEY priced right! I wish I didn't already have one or I would be all over that puppy. Reid

[slowzuki]

Weight is important of course, but the 3 point winch does a good job of reeling stuff in.  It can pull stuff in that would surprise you when working the small end.  I find it hard to drag stuff from the big end, a simple root can jump my 6000 lb or so tractor up into the air.  The small end rarely gets caught.

I've never skidded stuff without a front end loader on but I suspect it would be sketchy.  When skidding in really slippery stuff I pick up a couple of thousand pounds of stuff with the forks to give the front end some traction and steering.

[Ohio_Bill]

 Hear is another Big old Massey Ferguson .  Was cheap and a lot safer than my farm tractor .

[slowzuki]

Skidders are pretty pricy around here.  A local fellow is selling an old gas one on here but I hate working on gas engines.  One reliable engine is plenty for me.  If I could I'd bushhog my lawn a few times a summer to avoid owning a lawnmower.  String trimmer is next worse on my hit list

My sister bought some sheep this fall, maybe I can borrow some to fight the grass!

But for sure an old skidder is way better than a tractor for logging.

[woodmills1]

I just did a search for used metavic log trailers and found a kioti dk50 with a big metavic log trailer from 2003, but it is 67,000 canadian.

[Grappletractor]

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 Hear is another Big old Massey Ferguson .  Was cheap and a lot safer than my farm tractor .

Bill, What did you have to pay for that fine looking peice of equipment. I'll trade ys Masseys 

[Ohio_Bill]

I bought it about  3 years ago for  6000  and it sure has made getting logs out of the wood a lot more safe .I t weighs  about  18000 .  so it only cost about  33 cents a pound .  

[Ironwood]

WOW nice buy Ohio-bill. I like when you equate purchases to a pound rate (usually means a great bargin was had).Reid

[ironmule2004]

I use a New Holland 5610-S 4x4 which is around a 78hp.  I have a hydraulic grapple on the back that opens up to 44 inches.    I probably don't need this much H.P. but a heavier machine would be a much rougher ride.  Sometimes my grapple  looses larger logs when I pull them tree length.  I am currently making a larger grapple that will open up to around 60 inches.   I also pull my Barko 160-A trailer mounted loader with a delimber around in the woods.  I use a trailer dolly to do this. 
     I would be fine with a 50-60 hp 4x4 tractor.  You can do a lot with these, especially if you put water in the tires.  I just usually like to have more than I need- just in case!   You may find that the better deals are on the larger machines in your area, depending on what everybody else is looking for.   If I had to drop down in horsepower to be able to get a 4x4 tractor I would definately do so.   

IronMule       

[ksu_chainsaw]

You might look for an older Farmall tractor.  Dad has a 706 diesel that I have used to drag logs out with the 3-pt, and it works fairly good.  Around here, a gas 706 runs around 5000, but it just depends on the season.  A favorite of all the farmers around here are the Farmall 560's- they run a loader good and are fairly heavy.  Dad rebuilt that 706 so its about a 100 hp tractor now, with 2 sets of hydraulics and has weighted rear tires and about 10 suitcase weights on the front.  I drug a few 36" dia cottonwoods out of a waterway that were around 30-40 feet long, and had no problems.

The neighbor also have several old 4wd masseys that work very good for farm tractors- just a little big for what you are looking at.

Charles

[Qweaver]

To me, there are four important requirements. 1. that the tractor can be put on a trailer that I can pull behind my 3/4 ton GMC van.  2. That the tractor will lift and carry the largest log that I want to saw on my LT15.  3. That it is a TLB  4. That its a 4WD Diesel 

Once the tractor and everything else you want to haul gets above 7000 lbs  you end up with over 10000lbs of towed weight and you start needing a very large towing vehicle.   My nephew has a huge JD TLB with no way to move it around.  He bought a dump truck and is looking for a suitable trailer just so he can get it aroung to places he wants to work.  My kubota 3130 will lift a 24" x 16' log and carry it out of the woods OK but that is about the limit.  I wouldn't want to do that on a very steep slope.  I don't have a debarker so I'm just not going to skid. 

 It seems to me that the tractor needs to be sized for the saw.   If you're only going to saw 20 to 22" dia. logs then a 30 HP tractor will do fine.  Of course not all 30 HP tractors are created equal.  The 34HP Kubota 3400 would not pick up my test logs while the 31HP 3130 did.  I do wish now that I had opted for the 3830 38HP model tho'   As I've said here before my old Ford 30 HP 1910 would out lift this new Kubota.
Quinton
Quinton

[Wallys World]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I run a small operation on about 100 acres with a Wodmizer LT 15 as my mill. I use (believe it or not) a JD 445 sub-compact tractor (22hp) with a home made log arch behind it. You can see the arch in Independent Sawmill & Woodlot Management magazine June/July 2001. I also pull it with my JD 4 X 2 Gator, and my Kubota BX22 TLB with the hoe off and 3 pt hitch on. The arch is pulled by ball hitch. It can handle 28 inches in diameter. I usally don't pull over 16 feet long. With the weight on the arch the front stays planted pretty well. I'm working in the backwoods of Virginia and it's hilly. I run skidder type stud chains on the rears for xtra traction and front weghts. I've never got stuck yet, take my time and I can get them out. It is very low impact way of moving logs to the mill site. It all depends what you want to do and spend. 
Wally