Author Topic: 12 V Auto starters used for other applications- modified to accept pully (Read 3225 times)

woodbowl · « **on:** January 13, 2006, 02:39:52 am »

Mr Hootie told me today that some starters have 2 bearings and some have 3. The ones with 3 bearings can be modified to accept a pully. The nose cone needs to be cut off and the bendix gear taken out. What remains are 2 bearings to keep the armature aligned, leaving an extended shaft. A starter motor is not a continous duty motor by any means, but there are many potential applications such as bumping a live deck and winch type projects galore. They are cheap and available.
Before I start taking starters apart, I need to know which starters have the 3 bearings. Does anyone know what engine and vehicle these type starters would be on?

highpockets · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2006, 05:44:30 am »

I am going to put my two cents worth in but have not delt with many starters in years. I think that they may be a Dodge starter. I know they used to run a reduction gear and that is why I am thinking they have more than two bearings. A suggestion is to used a Lovejoy Coupling between the starter hydraulic pump or whatever drive you plan to use. Enco has them pretty reasonable.

Another thing is you may need solenoids. I managed to buy either 8 or 10 of them on Ebay for some $1.50 each.

isassi · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2006, 08:03:36 am »

Once you remove the "nose" of the starter, I don't know of any I have seen with 3 bearings. The best by my guess for what you are going to do is the old Ford style without the mounted solonoid. They used actual bearings instead of bushings on some models and seemed to be indestructable.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2006, 08:20:48 am »

Check out a Tomy lift motor. They may have the extra bearing you need, or just get a spare end cap for the other end and grind or drill a hole to line up with the bearing there. The motor on the hydraulic pump of my Woodmizer has a sealed ball bearing in the end cap.

jpgreen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2006, 09:18:24 am »

I built an electric bike out of a Ford 60's vintage starter with a straight shaft back when I was a kid. That starter took a beating, and I don't remember it ever failing.

woodbowl · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2006, 10:04:56 am »

Quote from: joasis on January 13, 2006, 08:03:36 am

my guess for what you are going to do is the old Ford style without the mounted solonoid. They used actual bearings instead of bushings on some models and seemed to be indestructable.

That is the type starter that I'm talking about. The nose cone may have a bushing but the other two are roller bearings. What year model Ford?

Quote from: Minnesota_boy on January 13, 2006, 08:20:48 am

.......... or just get a spare end cap for the other end and grind or drill a hole to line up with the bearing there.

That's the problem. Cutting off the nose cone, realigning it and welding it back straight. The tip bushing has proven to be a good enough bearing so reusing it and placing it closer to the housing should not be a problem. I would be more concerned with welding aluminum and making sure things are straight. I may could get away with trying to shim the armature all the way around and then weld it together. Does this sound like a good idea?
If not, what are some other old truck starters that may work?

isassi · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2006, 10:18:03 am »

I know for sure that style startes is on the older ('60s) vintage Ford inline 6 engines and they did not have a nose cone, but rather a long output shaft the bendix gear attached to. They worked on inertia rather then a solonoid mechanically pulling them into the ring gear. good luck.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2006, 01:35:54 pm »

Quote from: woodbowl on January 13, 2006, 10:04:56 am

That's the problem. Cutting off the nose cone, realigning it and welding it back straight. The tip bushing has proven to be a good enough bearing so reusing it and placing it closer to the housing should not be a problem. I would be more concerned with welding aluminum and making sure things are straight. I may could get away with trying to shim the armature all the way around and then weld it together. Does this sound like a good idea?

You mistook my information.

What I was suggesting was that the back end cap could be modified to slip over the long shaft after the nose cone was removed and bolted to that end of the starter, so it now would have 2 back ends, only one back end would be on the front, modified so the shaft could just go on through it and stick out. Clear as mud?

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2006, 02:36:08 pm »

Hey wod bowl.those old fords dont need to be swapped....I have one powering the winch dor turning logs on the carriage.......but I like the idea of using other starters that way..good idea....I was not even 4 miles from Mr Hootie yesterday

Jason_WI · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2006, 03:45:16 pm »

I believe this is the starter you are looking for:

FORD-TRACTOR-STARTER

Also make sure the solinoid you buy is rated for continous use. Most starter solinoids are rated for intermittent use only.

Jason

P.S: I put the url link around it but the link is still long

getoverit · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2006, 04:08:30 pm »

Can the polarity be reversed on starter motors in order to reverse the direction? If so, does anybody have any diagrams/info/pictures on how this is done?

DanG · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2006, 04:42:40 pm »

I think you can, but keep in mind that the housing is usually the negative side of the circuit, so you'd need to isolate it from the rest of your framework.

Dale Hatfield · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2006, 04:50:17 pm »

I got into this same kind of discussion at work today .
Getoverit. I would think that it can could be done. This is what we came up with. A power window on your truck door. It spins foward and back. But I believe it has what might be called a floating ground.
I had an old sled trailer that had a power dove tail on it. ............... Ok now i remember. It had a power steering pump mounted to a starter motor that powered dove tail up and down.

Dale

getoverit · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2006, 07:38:10 pm »

I wasnt sure if starters could be run in reverse because of the brushes. I'm not even sure if starters still have brushes??? It's been forever since I've had to change out a starter. If you need something smaller, I understand that 12V starters for small engines are pretty inexpensive too.

woodbowl · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2006, 08:28:06 pm »

Quote from: Buzz-sawyer on January 13, 2006, 02:36:08 pm

....I was not even 4 miles from Mr Hootie yesterday

Sorry I missed you and Kirk at DanGs. I was just down the road sawing 34" poplar. I thought yall' were still at Toms so I headed home. ................ DanG and me went to Hooties yesterday and got some ideas about all this. Next time, ya got to go to Mr Hooties!

wiam · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2006, 09:03:08 pm »

Somewhere I read that you could isolate the brush hooked to the case just like the other ones, then hook the other wire to that.

Will

dail_h · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2006, 09:41:37 pm »

I wantta go to Mr Hooties, Can I go to Mr hooties ? Please ,I'll be good Can I pleeeeeeeeeeeease?

junkyard · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2006, 11:52:09 am »

I looked last night but couldn't find the page, but somewhere on the web iis a guy making a hydraulic power unit from a starter. he turned a new end bell so the shat stuck out in the open.
Junkyard

highpockets · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2006, 06:28:03 pm »

To reverse the motor you only need to reverse either the armature or the field coils.

freddycougar · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2006, 10:59:15 pm »

hipockets is correct, changing the field in relationship to the armature will change the direction .....

freddy

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2006, 03:41:47 pm »

Quote from: woodbowl on January 13, 2006, 08:28:06 pm

Sorry I missed you and Kirk at DanGs. I was just down the road sawing 34" poplar. I thought yall' were still at Toms so I headed home. ................ DanG and me went to Hooties yesterday and got some ideas about all this. Next time, ya got to go to Mr Hooties!

Well I am sorry we didnt see you......we will have to make a point of getting together next time for sho

woodbowl · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2006, 09:33:34 pm »

Quote from: Minnesota_boy on January 13, 2006, 08:20:48 am

Check out a Tomy lift motor. They may have the extra bearing you need, or just get a spare end cap for the other end and grind or drill a hole to line up with the bearing there. The motor on the hydraulic pump of my Woodmizer has
a sealed ball bearing in the end cap.

Now that you mentioned it, I remember my own 12 volt hydraulic power unit that I got from northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company, going out. I took out the starter motor and took it to the shop. It had two end caps and a slot type mate for the pump.

Quote from: Buzz-sawyer on January 13, 2006, 02:36:08 pm

Hey wod bowl.those old fords dont need to be swapped....I have one powering the winch dor turning logs on the carriage.......

Buzz, ........ you got a few pics of that?

Buzz-sawyer · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2006, 02:42:46 pm »

Woodbowl
I believe I have posted pics of the winch.look inmy gallery..there are like 300 pics in there

woodbowl · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2006, 09:41:05 pm »

Quote from: Buzz-sawyer on January 17, 2006, 02:42:46 pm

Woodbowl
I believe I have posted pics of the winch.look inmy gallery..there are like 300 pics in there

I looked for it but I couldn't see for lookin'.

woodbowl · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2006, 12:15:45 pm »

This is what I'm trying to do. I want to assist my existing 1/2 hp motor in the dragback mode. This is my old smaller up/down motor that served as the experiment. It didn't work well. The Rpm's and power differences fought each other.
I want to try and seperate these two factors by using a starter motor to drag with while the power feed motor is in idle mode.

This is the starter that I plan to use. I need to take the gear off and put on a pully. Anybody know what type starter this goes to?

The gear is off and ready for a pully. The bendix is jammed in the engaged position so that the shaft would be out at all times.

Pully is on and ready to test.

getoverit · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2006, 08:50:46 pm »

what I really want to know is how you talked the wife into letting you work on this on the kitchen counter? Mine would be nagging about that, even with the cardboard to protect the tile

On the other hand, if you have figured out a way to isolate the poles in the starter to allow reversal of direction, I'd love to see the pictures of how this is done

woodbowl · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:04:06 pm »

Now ken, you wutn't supposed to notice my work bench! It was in and out before the wife could find out.
I sure don't know how to isolate the poles either. I ~~took~~ tried to take another small starter apart to do this but I could tell that once the brushes came off the comentator, it would never go back together with the tools that I've got.
Other starters come apart quite well, but I still don't know what to isolate or how. Slabs would know. HEY SLABS ...............

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2006, 01:12:18 pm »

I just used 2 sets of insulated brushes. You have 2 sets of brushes. One is insulated, one is bare. De-solder and insulate the bare ones, or replace with insulated.

Oh, did I mention that you can use insulated brushes in place of the grounded or bare ones

??

Think outboard motor starter motors, for V-6 engines. Use Chrysler if you can find them. EASY to reverse with above method.

woodbowl · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2006, 01:57:20 pm »

Did you say I could use insulated brushes?

Now that the brushes are insulated ..... what now? Don't they ground to the housing? Shouldn't they be insulated away from the housing and ran out to the power source? Switching both wires on the batt terminals should reverse rotation right?

What about the housing that gets grounded when it is bolted down? Is anything affected?

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2006, 03:26:08 pm »

Olen, Olen, Olen

I figgered you was smart enuff to unnerstand that insulated MEENS insulated from the CASE and anything touching the case

Do I gotta fly back and show ya how to do this

Once ya use insulation washers where the ground brushes are fastened, the case is bolted to the engine with no problem. Pull a starter apart and take a look see.

woodbowl · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2006, 04:52:33 pm »

Your gona' fly back and help me fix it? ......... Oh Boy!

Don't forget to bring my CR coffee.

Some of these smaller foreign starters I've got are a nightmare to get into. Especially around the brushes. They don't have an end cap and once the brushes are off the commentator I doubt that I'll be able to get them back together with my tools. The only reason I'm trying to make them work is because they have a shaft out the front and not a bell. Old Ford starters are few and far between in these parts. $:-\$

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2006, 05:01:55 pm »

Outboard motors.

Brushes are on the END of the communtator

woodbowl · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2006, 08:42:43 pm »

Here's what I've been doing today. I've mounted a starter motor in hopes of having a homemade dragback. The normal feed motor is used to saw with and the starter motor is used to dragback only. I suppose I could kick in the regular return motor at the same time for extra power. Will have to wait and see. Planning on making a test run tomorrow.

The discussion about reversing directions of a starter motor will be a later project. Possibly an up/down.

highpockets · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2006, 05:51:10 pm »

Woodbowl, you are a man after my heart. If you'd move a little closer to P Hill, we can make some awesome machines. That photo looks like a proto type of a proto type of a proto type and something I'd do. Hang in there, you'll get it. I know that deadheader has you moving in the right direction but if I can help, let me know.

woodbowl · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:59:22 pm »

Highpockets, what kind of inventin' have you done over the years? I bet you've got some good ideas to share.

highpockets · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2006, 07:26:33 am »

Woodbowl, I've never invented anything that I could patent. I had some ideas on an electronic powered refrigeration unit but never followed through. I was raised by my mother after my father left. She had four brothers that pretty much saw that I had things to do and some tools. My first project was probably a motorized tricycle when I was 10 or 11. Two uncles were electricians and plumbers so I got an experience early. I built go-carts with Wisconsin engines and truck transmissions and then got into drag racing on a very low budget. We had an old man who was the daddy of the local radio and t.v. shop. He and I hung pretty close. One claim to fame is that I put the first known fax machine on a drilling rig in the north sea. I tied it to a 1 KW single sideband radio to talk to the shore. Worked well. I just completed a cnc wood router. Mainly I am a junk junky. I just have to know about things.

Here is bertha. She is supposed to go get dozer out of a bog hole later in the day.

sandman2234 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 25, 2006, 09:44:31 pm »

You could have posted pictures of your CNC router, and left Bertha to catch a nap before she had to go to work. Getting that Cat out of the muck would be a job for Julia, but not a problem for Bertha.
Don't let Highpockets fool you, he uses magic to make jewels out of junk.
David from jax

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Author Topic: 12 V Auto starters used for other applications- modified to accept pully (Read 3225 times)