Mulberry - male or female?

[getoverit]

When I was growing up, one of my friends had 2 large Mulberry trees in their yard. One of them always had berries, and one was always barren. I was told that one was male and one was female.... I dont know enough about them to know if this is even possible, but that is what I was told.

I finally found one and planted it here on the farm about 15 years ago. It now has about 4 main trunks, each one being about 8" in diameter. The problem is that It has no other tree to pollenate with. I have never even seen a bloom on it.

My question is this: is it possible to have a male or female tree? also, how would I go about finding a "female" tree (or the opposite of what I have) that would produce fruit?

is there a trick to getting it to bear fruit without there being another Mulberry tree around?

[Max sawdust]

We had Mulberry's on the farm where I grew up.  Some produced fruit others did not.  It was always "assumed" some were male others were female.  I am not saying it is why but it was the answer we came up with  
Heck I have no idea, on how to tell the male and female apart.  Root cuttings from a tree that produces fruit is the only thing I can think of to get fruit.

Fruit sure is good, wood is also real pretty and nice to work with.
Also according to a post on here a while back it is good for smoking on the grill.
Max

[SwampDonkey]

You probably mean Osage-Orange right? Yes, they are dioecious (separate male and female plants). Flowers are tiny, greenish, crowded in round clusters less than 1 inch in diameter. Other species have even smaller flowers. You still see either a male or female fower. Some mulbery species are polygamous. Means they can have perfect flowers (male and female parts together on the flower) and they have imperfect flowers with either male or female present. Then there is another possibility where you can have perfect flowers and male and female flowers on one plant (polygamomonoecious), say that word fast.

[beenthere]

I thought he (Max) meant mulberry. 

http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html

[Max sawdust]

I thought he (Max) meant mulberry. 

http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html

Yes, I think Getoverit means mulberry too.  SD why do think Osage-Orange? 
The mulberry trees I am speaking of are all started from natural seeding, most do not produce fruit, but some do.  Can not tell any difference in growing conditions between the trees.
max

[wesdor]

I have been told for years that the mulberry was a "cousin" to the Osage Orange.  Perhaps that is why he referenced Osage.    We had one of the biggest mulberry trees in our front yard - some people thought it might be a record, but we never had it checked.  We were gone on vacation and came home to find it laying over after a wind storm.  It was a male tree, but we have several fruit bearers behind the house.

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, Osage-Orange is a mulberry and flowers are very much alike to the shrub mulberries. Same specs as I stated above.

[Max sawdust]

Thats what I love about FF.  Learn somtin all the time.   
Sure do like the wood it is bright yellow when fresh cut. 
max

[bitternut]

You definitely need more than one mulberry to get any fruit. I had one in my yard for quite a few years that was loaded with blossoms every year. Never produced a single fruit. Finally cut it down as it outgrew the spot it was planted in and I did not have a place to plant a second mulberry.

I asked the guy that owned the nursery that sold it to me and he said that you won't get any fruit unless you have at least two trees. I told him, "thanks for telling me that years ago when you sold me only one tree". I don't buy anything from that nursery anymore.

I now have two trees planted at my woods and they both blossom every spring. They are small yet and the birds get the fruit before they fully ripen. Maybe once they become larger trees they will leave some of the fruit for me. When I was a kid the farm next to us had several of them planted among his sweet cherry orchard. The idea was that the birds would go for the mulberries and leave the cherries alone. It did not work very well. I spent a lot of time in the mulberry and cherry trees with the birds.

[SwampDonkey]

bitternut, don't the fruit kinda remind you of black berries?

[getoverit]

ABSOLUTELY! They look like HUGE blackberries, only they grow on a tree. I have learned a great deal though. I didnt know THAT was osage orange either. They make the best mulberry pie you ever tasted, just cook it like you would make a blackberry cobbler or blackberry pie. I hear (ahem) that the mulberry wine is pretty tasty too 

If I was to buy another tree to cross-pollenate the tree I have, How do I tell if it is a male or a female though? Is there a way?

[SwampDonkey]

Genetic testing ? (and I don't think it's easy) Or good luck. We are stepping deep into microbiology/biochemistry here, where I have little knowledge.  That was an option in the forestry program and I already had enough studies to handle as it was. In fact the forestry program had as many credit hours as the engineering program as it was. 

Here is a paper on sex determination of figs, which are part of the mulberry family. Good stuff to fall to sleep with.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99b.htm

[beenthere]

......... I have learned a great deal though. I didnt know THAT was osage orange either. ............

Mulberry and Osage orange are not the same species. They are more like 'cousins'.  Seems there might be some confusion here.  SD was saying, I believe, that the need for a second tree to 'cooperate' with bearing fruit was similar between the two. 

[SwampDonkey]

Mulberry and Osage orange are not the same species. They are more like 'cousins'.  Seems there might be some confusion here.  SD was saying, I believe, that the need for a second tree to 'cooperate' with bearing fruit was similar between the two. 

Family Moraceae: Mulberry Family
       mulberry Morus species
       Osage-Orange Maclura species
       Fig Ficus species

sorry for the confusion 

[Ron Wenrich]

Yes, you need two trees, but one has to be male and one has to be female.   

I've had several volunteers at my place.  Many have been male, but I have had a few females.  I have noted that I have a few berries come out on a limb or two on one of my male trees.  Not enough for a pie, but just enough to say that it happens.

[SwampDonkey]

Must be one of the polygamous plants, like I mentioned above. 

[bitternut]

Yep, they remind one of blackberries but without the thorns. Just pop them in your mouth and bite off the stem. Used to sit in the tree for hours eating them.

[ohsoloco]

The mulberry trees at my parents' house are loaded with berries every year.  Made some wine with them one year, but never did much else with them other than pop them in my mouth right off the tree   

These trees are more like clusters of trees growing together...probably at least five or six "trunks" about six inches in diameter all growing together (there are two groups of these trees).  Do any of the mulberries have different shaped leaves    I know that there are some branches in the one cluster that have leaves that look like mittens (like on a sassafrass tree).  Can't remember if there were any leaves with the three lobes or not....I'll have to check it out this spring to see if there is a sassafrass tree growing in there    I know there's a sassafrass tree growing about 100 feet from the mulberries.  It was actually growing up through a honeysuckle bush.  Years ago I cut out the bush, dug up, and chopped out the roots from that bush for some reason    The tree is doing fine 

[SwampDonkey]

leaves on mulberry are extremely variable, even on the same bush.

[getoverit]

This tree has a major stump, then has about 5 sprouts growing out of it about equal size. The leaves are rather large ones, but I'll have to wait till spring to get any pictures of them. In the mean time, I'm looking for a suitable mate for it. I just dont want to get another tree with the same gender as this one (if that is possible). Guess I'll have to get several of them and hope that at least one in the bunch is different.  Still wish It was as easy as lifting it's tail and taking a look to see what gender it was 

[Pullinchips]

yes the trees are male and female, you have a male if there is no fruit.

-nate

[Tom]

Mulberry is easy to root.

Find a tree that is bearing fruit and take a cutting.  Root the cutting and you will have a tree just like the one that had the berries on it. 

[ohsoloco]

Tom, what's the best way to get the cutting to root?  Put it in some potting soil, for example?  There's a mulberry tree (bush) at my house, but I didn't notice any berries on it last summer.  That would be nice if I could get a tree started from one at my parent's house   

Wait a minute, I remember what my parent's outdoor furniture looks like when the mulberries are ripe...those birds really like those things 

[Tom]

In the Early spring take a cutting of a hardened (year-0ld) limb, about the size of your little finger and 6-10 inches long, that includes a leaf and several buds.  (Leaf optional)

dampen the butt end a little and dust the bottom inch with a rooting hormone.  Rootone

Put this dusted end into a pot of sandy soil that has been thouroughly wettened.

Place the pot under the edge of the house, under a tree or shrubbery where the sun can't cook it.

Sometimes I cover it with a gallon milk jug to make a little greenhouse.  It'll stay wet.

Keep the soil moist.

In about 2 weeks you will be getting roots.  In about 6 weeks, you can probably put it into the ground.
Some cuttings take 12 or more weeks to root.


When you do this, make up 15 or 20.  One is certainly apt to root.

[IL Bull]

I have a mulberry that makes the regular berry but later it makes a berry that is much larger and is white.  It looks kind of like a mulberry but is much larger and hard.  I have yet to eat one.  It looks to ugly to try.  They appear right after the regular fruit,  sometimes both appear at the same time.  Anyone know what these are?

[Tom]

a "large, hard, white, mulberry, after-fruit?"   

I never heard of that.  You must have a special tree.  Maybe a mutation.  It might be the one bush that will change the worlds mulberry population and a million years from now take over the world.  It might be intelligent.  No telling what would happen if you ate one. 

[SwampDonkey]

There is white mulberry (Morus alba), native to Japan and China.

I can't imagine a mulberry bearing fruit twice a year though. You sure it's not some kind of gull?

'Some white mulberries occasionally suffer from popcorn disease. The disease is caused by a fungus that causes individual fruit carpels to swell until they look like unpopped popcorn kernels. Collect and destroy diseased fruit.'
[source]
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/b992-w.htm

There are some ancient tales about mulberries:

Pyramus and Thisbe

The Medes and Babylonians burnt the palace of Assurnasirpal II (Assyrian ruler 884-859 BCE) made of cedar, cypress, juniper, boxwood, mulberry, pistachio wood and tamarisk.

[Tom]

http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html

This is an interesting site full of info.

It seems that a mulberry can be male or female at whim.

White mulberry's can make white fruits but usually they are red

Propogation is midsummer

Grown from seed, it takes 10 years to develop fruit.

[SwampDonkey]

It seems that a mulberry can be male or female at whim.

Thus, the term polygomous.

[Tom]

I've got a neighbor that must have a Gomous. 

[SwampDonkey]

Tom, mulberry sure are an interesting bunch. Trying to figure out their sex, gender or whatever is like playing 'dodge the farmer'. They can have male, female, or perfect flowers and any combination of the three. I'll stick with the barbless blackberries and raspberries.

[Tom]

I had a customer wanting some to make Bows from.  Did you know that it was a Bow wood?    I didn't.  I told him the ditches were full of the stuff .  He didn't know where to find them.

I think they are mor popular for Native bows (one piece wood) than laminated stuff.   That's all I know about that. 

I do know that the wood makes a pretty good bowl.   I've not sawed any, but I've seen a lot of it turned.

http://www.murraygaskins.com/mulberry.html

[SwampDonkey]

No I didn't know that. I did know that pacific yew was used as bow wood. Our Canadian yew is too small a shrub for bows. When I was a kid we always experimented with making bows and arrows and I found northern white cedar made nice arrows. I tried ash for bows, but they'de collapse. I did get my hands on a home made Indian bow and I beleive it was made from black spruce. My grandfather was given it by a local Indian chief and when I got it the bow string was missing. I don't know where it is now. 

[IL Bull]

I thought that osage orange was bow wood.

[SwampDonkey]

I've read that, but it's original distribution was Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas so many tribes wouldn't have had access to it.

[getoverit]

I'll try rooting some and see if I can get them to grow. I guess I really need cuttings from several different trees just to make sure I have a female in the bunch. Heck, for all I know, I may already have a female and need a male 

Thanks for all the good info on this thread though. I've learned a bunch about mulberries, and if this tree doesnt start producing soon, I may even cut it down and mill it up. I'm almost itching to see the orange wood 

[Max sawdust]

Thanks for all the good info on this thread though. I've learned a bunch about mulberries, and if this tree doesnt start producing soon, I may even cut it down and mill it up. I'm almost itching to see the orange wood 

I always wondered if there was a way to preserve the color of fresh cut mulberry.  That almost flouresent orange green is really pretty stuff, fresh.
Max

[Captain]

We've got just one mulberry here on the side of the house.  It is loaded every year.

Captain

[Tom]

It must have something to do with the side of the house.  Dad used to get that way too. 

[ellmoe]

Question   :How to tell the sex of a mulberry tree?

Answer      : Look in the crotch!