Handy sawmill tricks or things I've just come to know.

[tcsmpsi]

Some say Texas saw marks are different compared to California saw marks.

jp,
Did some say how these Texas marks are different?

You see, bibbyman, I've already got class scheduled for that weekend.  It is nearly impossible for me to schedule such an outing, other than the training, etc. for which I am already committed.  I am slowly working toward another concept, but it is going to take a spell.  This is one reason why the forum is such an invaluable asset for me.
*mail just ran and I got my new LT50 flyer!*
I know you're right, and my 'want and need' to go to some of these events is...notable. 

This little bit of information has been a great help for me.  Primarily, most of my cutting had been pretty clear SYP (with a few small hardwoods here and there), and I had probably gotten a little 'spoiled'. 
This is a piece of 7"X7"X4' that I brought to the shop for folks who ask (when they see the pics of the portable sawmill on the wall) 'how it cuts'.  Just a random piece I wasn't going to use for anything. 
Kinda threw me when sawmarks started showing up.



Thanks for all the input.

[wwsjr]

tcsmpsi

If there is any way that you could come to Perkinston, I will be glad to help you any way I can. I assume the show and seminars will be conducted by both Indy and GA WM folks.  All are very good. I will be there early Sat morning, staying at Best Western in Wiggins on Fri Nite.  Any of the WM guys should be able to tell you who Willie Steele is, Just ask them if you can be there.

Bibby,
 Why don't you "come on down".

[Bibbyman]

tcsmpsi


Bibby,
 Why don't you "come on down".

I'd sure like to.  We got to see what's going on around the mill and such before we could just take off and head south...  If the weather is in the 60s and 70s,  it'd sure help getting Mary to go..!

[Radar67]

It was 70 here today. I'm 85 miles North of there.

Stew

[iacornfed]

Living in Iowa it can get cold. Instead of heat pouches in your boots or heating pads under your feet ,use electric socks. They use either 2 C,D  or 1- 9 volt battery. They are sold a Cabelas or Bass pro shops. for $10- $20.  They work great and are light weight.

[thecfarm]

Hello iacornfed,welcome to the forum.

[flht01]

Kevjay,  (and bibbyman, or anyone else who might wish to pipe in)
...
Are the sawmarks showing on the cant considered normal?  In my softer SYP (without large, dense knots), I don't have any trouble.  But, in my knotty hardwoods, I've been racking my brain (and trying different processes) in thinking there's something I'm missing, or something wrong, because I have some sawmarks like what's showing in your pics. 

Are you using the 1" pitch blades on the hardwood?

[tcsmpsi]

yes.   

[flht01]

yes.   

Only thing I have to go on is info from the Timberwolf site but you might want to check the set on those 1" pitch blades. I'm thinking they are ok on syp but too aggressive for hardwood. Maybe someone here with real experience will chime in.

[Tom]

I don't see where the existence of saw marks on a board cut with a saw is any problem. 

My personal opinion is that modern sawyers have been put in an unfavorable position by manufacturers selling these new saws and blades.  It's been marketed that the lumber doesn't need to be planed, and that may be true.  Most of the saws and blades will break down a log with minimum deviation in the size of a board or timber.  Not being planed has been misconstrued to mean that the board is finished and can be put into a cabinet as it comes off of the sawmill.  That's a bunch of bull wash.

It may be that modern blades produce better, truer and smoother lumber than earlier generations.  But don't fall into the trap that you are producing finished lumber.   If you do, and you and your customers believe it, you, nor they, will ever be happy with the out-come.

Saws leave marks.  Saws that have already done a considerable amount of sawing may leave deeper marks.  Saws that have been set by the sawyer for a second, third or sixth go, may leave very visible marks.

When the job is to break down logs, the optimum is to find a set, rake and sawing speed that will put the maximum number of true boards or timbers in the stack.  Sometimes anomalies are run into that cause a blade to move a little.  It may be hard wood, a knot, wide grain, pitch pockets, sand, pebbles, nails or any other of hundreds of different things that will cause the blade to leave a mark, or even not run true.  You hope that it is a good enough blade that the lack of trueness can be corrected with a planer.  That's what they make planers for.  It's a planers job to smooth surfaces, true surfaces and make all the lumber the same size.

You can't make all of the lumber the same size with a sawmill.  You can start it out at the same size and the truer the mill, the closer they will be to one another.  But, wood will move.  It is susceptible to movement from having growing stresses relieved, or from drying, which allows cupping, crook or twist.  You can minimize these defects with care in drying or care in sawing, but they are going to happen.  Drying doesn't even cause it to happen.  You will notice that I used the word "allow".  That is because the potential is there in the wood before it is dried.  You should hope, with care, that you can minimize the defects by being careful in the way you allow the stresses to develop.

Once this lumber has been sawed and dried, It must be sized and smoothed. That is where the planer mill comes in; only to be followed by more saws, more planing, sandpaper, scrapers and a finish of some sort.

Your sawmill just starts this procedure.  Don't forget that your job is to break down a log.

Part of that break-down is to make sure that the piece is thick enough that someone can remedy these faults on down the line.  It's also up to you to orient the grain and sweep, such that these stresses are minimized.  You have to know how wood reacts to each cut to be able to do that.  If you are just cutting a round cylinder up into rectangular shapes, with disregard to its being a living thing, then expect most of your lumber to have problems. But, just because your lumber has problems doesn't mean that you haven't done the best you know how. 

Don't let someone badger you into thinking that you have done a bad job just because you have sawtooth marks on the wood or because the relieved stresses allow the wood to move.

I have used a 1" pitch band on my Baker and found that it worked OK, though a little course.  Where it was favored was that it allowed me to use a cam that was designed for a 7/8 pitch that had a shallower gullet.  I didn't have to change the cam and it made my life easier.   I have since changed the cam and now can make my 7/8 bands be perfect, with a deeper gullet. 

Why not use 3/4 pitch?  Because, that's a lot of teeth to set, more teeth to sharpen and more teeth generally cut slower.   Yes, more teeth can cut smoother, but I'm after getting the log off of the mill.  That little bit of tooth mark on the lumber is negligible when compared to the cup, crook and twist that may happen later.

I don't mean for you to be sloppy, or accept a damaged blade that is not producing.  You must set your own goal as to what you are trying to accomplish.  Just don't buy into the hype.   It'll drive you nuts.

[tcsmpsi]

I would reckon an impossible situation of myself being driven nuts.  I accepted that long ago.   

It did have me concerned, and caused me thought and consternation.  Fortunately, all that came togther in this thread.  As I had mentioned, the majority of that run of various, knotty, old hardwood will plane out with a light/medium pass.  In fact, I probably sawed much of it a bit too...cautiously.  But, that's me. 

All in all, I'm really quite pleased with what has come from this run.  And, as mentioned, from what the owner and I had discussed, I have no doubt he will be tickled with what I have gotten for him out of what he brought. 

And certainly, I hope that I did not leave an impression that, though concerned, I was not enjoying thoroughly the process.   

Heck, these days around here lately, even if it all ended up firewood, wouldn't be a bad thing.   

[DWM II]

Mr. Tom is spot on. I have learned to concentrate on dimensional quality. It normaly works out that when dimensions are starting to wane I will notice an abnormal saw mark pattern, or a fuzzy finish on the board face. I dont let an even saw mark pattern bother me. Being able to ignore certain saw markings will also let you increase production.

Most of my sawing is done in hardwoods so saw marks are always present and like you, I have noticed that when sawing syp, the marks arent there, but the fuzzy board faces show up.

[Dan_Shade]

A sawmill's a sawmill, not a planer   that's what I tell folks when they ask how smooth the boards are.  of course, i'm quick to show them a sawn board too, because a lot of folks have vastly varying opinions of what "smooth" is off of a sawmill.  compared to a circle saw with a tooth a bit out, and bandsaw is super smooth....

[Brucer]

Strangely enough, last month a contractor gave me heck for making timbers that were too smooth. He was doing a reno in an 80-year-old fire hall, and wanted to mantain the the rough-sawn appearance. My first couple of timbers were too smooth for him, so I dug out a reasonably sharp blade with a badly bent tooth and cut him a bunch of timbers with big score marks across the face. He really liked that. Go figure .

[Tom]

I run into that from time to time myself.  we used to bend teeth out of whack to cut stair treads and deck boards too. 

[jpgreen]

Tom-

The problem is Michael is a custom gunsmith and any ding, mark, or blemish drives those guys nuts.. 

[tcsmpsi]

Oh, ha ha ha...my, ain't  we funny.   

By the way, the 'check' is in the mail.   

[Randy]

I have ALOT of lumber air-stacked on 3/4" stickers---Some stacks are 8ft tall, but all are 4ft wide. I bought a tractor a few months ago with a front end loader and a pallet fork. I wished that I could move some of the boards with the pallet fork, but the forks are about 1 1/4" thick on the back---- and I never realized I would own a Pallet fork so I didn't stack the boards to where I could move them with the forks--------------Then I had a thought----I cut several 2x3's about 5ft long then taper cut the last foot from 1 3/4" to 1/2"-----Now I can decide on how many layer's I want to lift---Start on one end/side and start driving this 5ft 2x3 into the pile with a small sledge hammer(its not hard)--then drive a couple more towards the middle close to where the pallet forks will go in--------Then I can stick the forks right into the stack and pick it up--------Saves alot of Hand work. Randy

[LT40HDD51]

...My personal opinion is that modern sawyers have been put in an unfavorable position by manufacturers selling these new saws and blades.  It's been marketed that the lumber doesn't need to be planed, and that may be true...

True enough, Tom. Its frustrating on our end too sometimes when companies make claims that arent really correct, yet there's really not a way to prove them wrong or call it false advertising . IMHO, lumber should be able to be planed clean with a pass on each side. Ive had the odd board with deep marks from a damaged tooth, and it needs a couple more passes thru the planer to clean up (then its thinner than the rest and no good to me  ).

We use the lumber off our mill without planing for most rough or exterior work. The slightly rough finish holds stain or paint better than a planed surface. Planing seals the pores in the wood by the knives rubbing the wood at high speed, where sawing leaves them open. We used a combination paint/stain on the siding we sawed out for the barn, and the painter was amazed at the wood drinking in that much stain.