Need Some Expert Advice

[Radar67]

Ran into a little trouble today with my saw, a Poulan Pro Classic 18 inch, 42cc engine. The two screws that hold the muffler to the exhaust port kept backing out, under max throttle while cutting. Any recommendations on how to solve this problem? Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions? The saw runs fine and is perfect for the amount I use it. (Not a daily, bread and butter saw) Thanks for any information you can share.

Stew

[Kevin]

How about a lock washer?

[Radar67]

Kevin, now I feel really dumb!  Didn't even cross my mind.

[Cut4fun]

Open that muffler up and richen up the H side on the carb. You will not think its the same saw. Poulan comes way to lean from the factory. Like a 1/2 on H side, when they run best about 1 1/8-1 1/4 turn out on H side. I run 4 poulans as a homeowner and even took out the metal baffle in the middle of the mufflers  and I still havent had the bolts back out like you stated. Hope I am just getting lucky. But I didnt even think of lock washer either. DUH here too.

[Minnesota_boy]

I have a saw that will back those screws out even with lock washers, so I removed them, drilled a small hole in the head of each and put them back in and locked them with a piece of wire run through the holes.  It takes longer but it will eventually break the wire and back the screws out anyway. 

[Chet]

I have used the high heat loctite #246 or #266 with good results. Just have some heat ready when you need to disasemble.   
Apply the tread locker to the bolt (not into the hole) as it will eventually shorten the hole depth.

[Kevin]

as it will eventually shorten the hole depth.

How did you discover that? 

[Kevin]

Another way to lock bolt heads that are hex head is to join the bolt heads with a small piece of metal  and bend the ends up to lock the heads in place.

[Chet]

How did you discover that?

Not so swift employees   

[Radar67]

Open that muffler up and richen up the H side on the carb. Like a 1/2 on H side, when they run best about 1 1/8-1 1/4 turn out on H side.

Cut4fun, This is my first saw, so could you explain more about the H side of the carb and opening the muffler up?

Minnesota Boy and Kevin, the screws are reccessed into the muffler, I like your ideas though. I'll have to keep them in mind for future reference.  

Chet, I'm going to try the lock washers first, if they still back out, I'll add the loctite.

Stew

[Kevin]

You can always replace the screws with bolts.

[Cut4fun]

Good carb tuning advice on this site.   http://www.madsens1.com/sawtune.htm

[Cut4fun]

Need model number of saw so I can look up your muffler. Being silver I bet it is one of those epa catalytic converter types.  None of mine had the epa restricted mufflers. Scottr has alot of info on retuning these saws and helped me out on my first top end rebuild this year. PM him also for more info just tell him I sent you.

[Radar67]

Need model number of saw so I can look up your muffler. Being silver I bet it is one of those epa catalytic converter types.  None of mine had the epa restricted mufflers. Scottr has alot of info on retuning these saws and helped me out on my first top end rebuild this year. PM him also for more info just tell him I sent you.

Thanks for the link and the info. My saw's Model number is PP4218AV. It does have the EPA muffler on it.

Stew

[Medina]

Had same problem with a 380 Pro, used split washers/spring washes/lock washers but you gotta remember that the heat takes the spring out of them and you will need to check them every once and a while, changed mine out every couple of months to be safe.

Metal clip would work with standard head bolts, mine came with round head torx bolts, maybe need to change.

[Cut4fun]

Be careful not to burn your new saw up. Poulan has them so lean from the factory, it is just a matter of time. The 220 I got sounded like it would rpm  to the stars at WOT. So I pulled the limiter caps off the H side and L side. red and blue plastic caps to keep us from adjusting carb. I took needle nose pliers and pulled them straight out and off. Then I checked H setting by turning it back in to see the factory setting. It only took a 1/2 turn to seat it to the right. Do this lightly on seating. I then put caps back on and you can only get a max of 3/4 turn of adjust with caps on from factory settings. To me this will just burn your saws up running this lean. The rpm sounds like it will never end. So I pulled the caps back off and adjusted the H side till it 4 stroked a little.  About 1 1/4 to 1 1/8 turns out. Then turn so ever slow off the 4 stroking till it clears up. Now the saw should be running richer and keep you from burning up your new saw. I didnt have to mess with the L side(throttle response) or Idle screw. I dont no anyway to open up a epa muffler crimped together I think, but other have drilled holes in the front and replaced them with NON epa mufflers of the earlier years. They stated even though the drilled holes the epa mufflers still retain to much of the heat in. I would try and find a non epa muffler somewhere that fits your saw to get the heat out. Sort of like running a header system on a car.  GL

[Radar67]

Thanks Cut4fun, After reading the tuning link you sent, I was wondering about burning the saw up. I'll have to do some tinkering and see what I can do. I'll also check around for an older muffler. I've got a saw shop close by that might be able to get one.

Stew

[IMERC]

Thread Locker blue and star style lockwashers (internal / external design). That style of lockwasher digs in and holds a lot better than the split type. Change the screws to washer head tap bolts while yur at it. Hedge yur bets.

[rebocardo]

> Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions?

Red lock-tite, though removing a small fastener would be quite the project.

[IMERC]

> Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions?

Red lock-tite, though removing a small fastener would be quite the project.

Grey would work even better but everything would become monolithic. Drilling and tapping a new hole is the only way to go back.

[scottr]

Thanks Cut4fun, After reading the tuning link you sent, I was wondering about burning the saw up. I'll have to do some tinkering and see what I can do. I'll also check around for an older muffler. I've got a saw shop close by that might be able to get one.

Stew

                                                                                                                                  Stew , it's been about 16 months and I wonder how your PP4218AV is holding up . Now that you have more run time have any different problems surfaced ?

[Radar67]

Scottr, the saw is still running great. I used the loctite product to keep the exhaust bolts in, but still have to tighten them up about once a month. I didn't make any carb adjustments because the saw was still under warranty, but I did learn it ran better at 3/4 trigger. Now that the warranty is out, I'm going to do the muffler mod and get rid of the limiter caps. I have noticed no other problems with my saw, other than having to change chains when I wear them out.

Stew

[scottr]

Scottr, the saw is still running great. I used the loctite product to keep the exhaust bolts in, but still have to tighten them up about once a month. I didn't make any carb adjustments because the saw was still under warranty, but I did learn it ran better at 3/4 trigger. Now that the warranty is out, I'm going to do the muffler mod and get rid of the limiter caps. I have noticed no other problems with my saw, other than having to change chains when I wear them out.

Stew
 /quote]                                                                                                                                  Stew , does your saw cut better at 3/4 throttle or does the engine not run properly at wide open throttle ?

[Radar67]

It cuts better at 3/4 throttle. If I give it everything it has, the blade heats up and dulls a lot faster, not to mention the motor sounds like it will blow at any moment...extremely high pitch rpm sound.

Stew

[scottr]

It cuts better at 3/4 throttle. If I give it everything it has, the blade heats up and dulls a lot faster, not to mention the motor sounds like it will blow at any moment...extremely high pitch rpm sound.

Stew

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Stew , this past winter I was cutting dry dogwood that was similar . I did not have the file low enough in the gullet (not enough hook) and it was like the tooth was not getting a good bite . Sometimes a real tight chain will be similar (remember no sag no drag on the tension) . Are you dropping the depth gauges lower than the .025" when the tooth gets some wear ?           Does your saw have the super clean feature that sends fresh  air from the fan back to the air filter ?

[Radar67]

I don't know if it has the air filter feature or not. As for the depth gauge, I'm filing with a hand file that has the metal bar on top to control the depth, so it rides on top of the teeth when I sharpen. I've been tightening the chain like the book says, remove the sag, hold up on the tip of the bar and tighten.

Stew

[scottr]

Those are good guides . Do you set your depth gauges with depth gauge tool or do you use a flat bar and feeler gauge ? What chain are you using ?

[Radar67]

I'm using Oregon 3/8 chain. You'll have to explain setting the depth, cause I don't do anything with a depth gauge or a feeler gauge.

Stew

[scottr]

I'm using Oregon 3/8 chain. You'll have to explain setting the depth, cause I don't do anything with a depth gauge or a feeler gauge.

Stew

                                                                                                                                Stew , the depth gauge that is forward of the tooth needs to be lowered after the tooth is sharpened due to the tooth being lowered .  Here is the oregon chain tech manual . See page 27 for how to set depth gauges . http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manuals/ms_02.pdf

[Radar67]

I've not been doing that. What are the advantages to adjusting the depth? I've not noticed any difference in cutting after sharpening, other than the larger chips and cutting easier.

Stew

[scottr]

I've not been doing that. What are the advantages to adjusting the depth? I've not noticed any difference in cutting after sharpening, other than the larger chips and cutting easier.

Stew

                                                                                                                                 The advantage of lowering the depth gauge is that the thickness of the chip will be correct for the design of the tooth . When the tooth enters the wood it pivots on the depth gauge and due to the angle of the slope of the tooth and the distance fron the cutting edge it will limit how deep it can cut . In the case of not adjusting the depth gauges you are making thin shavings (chips) and that's why you have wide open throttle cutting problems . You don't have enough load on your saw .

[Radar67]

Well then, guess I will have to find me a depth gauge and start doing it right.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Stew

[scottr]

Scottr, the saw is still running great. I used the loctite product to keep the exhaust bolts in, but still have to tighten them up about once a month. I didn't make any carb adjustments because the saw was still under warranty, but I did learn it ran better at 3/4 trigger. Now that the warranty is out, I'm going to do the muffler mod and get rid of the limiter caps. I have noticed no other problems with my saw, other than having to change chains when I wear them out.

Stew

                                                                                                                                     Stew , here is an IPL for your saw http://72.3.225.179/manuals/165649.pdf  . If you look at the item # 27 spark arrestor kit it looks like the slot is very small . A good first step to allowing your saw to run cooler would be to take the cover off and file the slot larger . You probably wont have to remove the limiters on the carb for adjustment .

[Radar67]

The slot is pretty small, not to mention the fine screen on the spark arrestor itself. I usually clean that screen every couple of tanks of fuel.

Stew

[scottr]

The slot is pretty small, not to mention the fine screen on the spark arrestor itself. I usually clean that screen every couple of tanks of fuel.

Stew

                                                                                                                                  Stew , you should not need to clean the screen that often . Maybe the foam air filter is dirty .    Is the area of the slot on the outer cover as large as the combined area of the two slots on the muffler ?

[Radar67]

I clean the screen not because it needs it, just do it as a maintenance step. I have not looked that close at the slots. I'll have to go by my place and pick the saw up, then I can get you some pictures.

Stew