Bellsaw sawmill how well do they work?

[HOGFARMER]

I am building a bandmill.  Every now and then I see something about a Bellsaw sawmill.  I understand that they can be powered by a tractor PTO.  How well do they cut are they faster or slower than a bandmill, do they cut better lumber?  Just curious.

[Tom]

Each piece of sawing equipment has it good and bad points  Circle saws are known for their ability to produce quantities of lumber, fast.   Their downside may be that they also produce a lot of sawdust doing it.  The kerf is wider than a bandmill.

Bandmills are slower, generally known for  a smoother cut and produce less sawdust.

If you are in a "production" mode and are able to feed the appetite of a circle mill,  It will probably make you more money per hour in general sawing than a bandmill.

If you cut special woods, make special cuts, haven't all the logs you want and are shy on labor, the bandmill begins to make a lot of sense.

[Minnesota_boy]

I had a circle saw similar to a Belsaw.  Every time I needed to saw a few logs I needed a helper and helpers are hard to find on short notice.  I also noticed that safety was lacking on that mill.  It's easy to get a piece of slab or bark alongside the saw and sometimes these peices get ejected toward the sawyer.  One of my friends has a Belsaw and had a piece of slab get stuck next to the blade and he reached to free it.  We'll call him Stubby from now on as his glove touched the blade and he lost the ends of 2 fingers.

If you have lots of logs and the logs are all brought to a central location, the circle saw will be faster provided you have the help.  If the help is lacking, the bandsaw is faster and safer.  In most situations, the bd-ft per man hour will be similar.  If you have quality help, it can be higher on the circle mill.

[D._Frederick]

If you want a circler mill for the increase in bd/ft you can saw and to make a profit, I would look at a different mill than a Bellsaw.

[vgbob]

Perhaps this is stating the obvious, but if you're not familiar
with Belsaw, they were a 'farm' sawmill. Never meant to be
a commercial (industrial) sawmill. Since there are so many variables
involved in how the sawmill was set up, accuracy or production
depended on the particular owner.

[Minnesota_boy]

Since there are so many variables
involved in how the sawmill was set up, accuracy or production
depended on the particular owner.

Yup, and some of them owners were none to particular. 

[dail_h]

   I've run two in my life,one was belted to a JD B ,the other was pto driven by a larger ,newer IH,don't remember the #. Both were farmer mills,and both cut good,and cut good lumber. If you are planning to cut for personal use,or light custom sawing they are probably ok ,but like the others have said,you need some labor,and use plenty of caution. Shoot,that's a good idea anyway.

[Greenskeeper]

I have and old Belsaw 1936 it was marketed by Sears,has a
brass tag on it that says for replacment parts to contact Sears and Roebuck.Last year I mounted it on a house trailer frame so I could move it.It is set up to run flat belt or PTO.Extened the carage so it will cut 16'+ rigged up a dust blower. Have cut several thousnd BF of Red and White Pine with it,lots of fun but you will need help,someone to help turn and offbear.Someday Ill post some pictures if I ever figger it out. Also have a newer m-14 thats in a pile I may someday put it to work.As far as speed go's I think  its faster than a band mill, lots of moving parts to watch out for thou.

[Tom]

I think you should take a picture of it and request some parts from Sears just to have the refusal letter for history and a keepsake.  That would be fun.  You would probably have a bunch of warehouse monkeys looking for banana's.

[thurlow]

I've had a M-14 Foley Belsaw for about 20 years;  it is indeed a farmers rather than a production type saw.  It's been bolted down to concrete piers since day one.  As long as you're aware of........and stay within.......its design limitations, it works great.  Designed for maximum 14 ft by 24 in, although I've exceeded both of those dimensions on occasion.   Makes a lot of sawdust and a lot of lumber quickly........compared to a (portable) bandsaw.   It was touted as a one man mill and that's what it's become since I retired from farming.  Smallest tractor I've ever had hooked to it (PTO drive) was 90 HP.  When the company was still in business, they published a magazine.........maybe 3 or 4 times a year........and would have pictures of people pulling them with something like a Super C Farmall.  Really need about 4 people to do any "serious" sawing.  Never did any custom work; just sawed for the needs of the farm and maybe  a little for neighbors occasionally.  I'll never get rid of it;  it's in its own shed behind the shop;  still have several old farm tractors; 2 of 'em have front-end loaders with  forks;  put some logs on the skids; hook a tractor to the PTO and begin sawing within 15 minutes.  Got 30 or 40 logs to saw after Christmas;  yellow popular, cypress and some beech.  Gonna put up  a shop to put my woodworking tools in..........they're scattered in 3 or 4 places....... and build a bench out of the beech;  that's the plan, anyway.  There's another post on the board about problems with one (Foley Belsaw); blade heating, wobbling, binding, etc;  every problem I've ever had, had to do with the condition of the teeth........Sorry for rambling on........................

[D._Frederick]

thurlow

There are not too many Bellsaws in our neck of the woods, the ones I have see do not have a true set-works. They have a friction set-up to hold the head block in place, how well does this work or are they always out of adjustment?

[thurlow]

RE:   from D._Frederick........"There are not too many Bellsaws in our neck of the woods, the ones I have see do not have a true set-works. They have a friction set-up to hold the head block in place, how well does this work or are they always out of adjustment? " 

   Mine came with a steel carriage, which was an additional-price option at the time.  Everything  is indeed bolted down and DOES NOT MOVE.  I am a retired farmer and am in no way a professional.  When the mill was new, I'd saw for a few minutes and it would quit working; the splitter would be out of alignment, the lead would be wrong.........always something.  I would go back to plowing or cutting hay or whatever; come back in a few days to the mill, maybe swage and sharpen or change  out the bits; same thing again.  Finally figured out it was the bits; softest steel you can imagine;  went to hard chrome for a year or two; been using carbide for 12 or 15 years; if you keep the logs clean, they last a long time, (at my level of useage).   Don't saw a lot of different kinds of wood and can't remember the last time I adjusted anything, except the guide pins...........

[stevel]

I own and operate a bellsaw high production, but in order to make that happen I have had to motify it from tip to toe. I am exstreamly satisfied with the out put and quality of the mill.Its a one man mill with electric board conveyors that will reverse for edge sawing and slabwood removal. 100 hp stationary diesel powers the mill,manual home built log turner manual dogs.
 You have to be a metal fabricator to make these mill perform, machine shop, welders ect. And the love of it much like farming or its just apile of work. Hope that helps.

[HOGFARMER]

I have the machine shop and welders, could you give me some details about your set up.  Am particulary interested in your manual log turner. 

Understand the reference to farming, as I do that too.  We raise grain, hogs, and a few cattle.

Thanks in advance!

[Ron R.]

Hogfarmer,  I believe if you read Thurlow's post it pretty much hits the nail on the head. No matter what equipment you use or buy it has it's limitations. I'm building a M-14 mill at present time. I helped a friend of mine a few years ago who had a M-14 mill and it did a terriffic job. I built an addition on my house with the lumber he sawed for me. If used properly I think they will do a good job or I wouldn't have bought one.............Ron

[Ron Wenrich]

I think you have to define high production.  High production for one operation is low production for another. 

All equipment has limitations.  Belsaw was designed for occasional sawing and logs that were on the small size.  Their carriages are light in comparison to many other types of mills.  The blade size and power input are also limitations.  Its also good to remember that most mill manufacturers are in the business of building sawmills, not producing lumber. 

I haven't seen a mill out there that can't be improved on.  We got a brand new mill several years ago, and we were making changes within the first month.  You find little things that help improve production.  Things that break a lot, you re-engineer. 

[bandmiller2]

Quality of the lumber cut has more to do with the sawyer than the type of mill,they will all cut good lumber and conversly all can butcher it.Belsaw is the bare minimum for a circular mill,but it will cut more lumber than you have time to nail up.Hogfarmer thought you already owned a Belsaw just trying to find time to setup??Years ago in my part of the world their were many small circular mills set up on leased gov. forest they would cut until they exhausted the near timber then move,stumps and timbers for foundations.Set the belsaw on timbers {railroad ties } and try it just check level every so often.If you like its operation build it a little better foundation and a roof over its head.Frank C.

[stevel]

The manual log turner is 4 ridged caster 4" dia mounted on a 2"x2" steel bar that runs the length of the carriage.Its on heavy built hinges that allows it to flip up into place and lock in. Using a cant hook the log rolls on the casters and turns right in possition.Flip it down and run the log.Its fast and easy.Ive had major back surgery and I can roll a 36" dia log by 16' with ease. Board conveyors are from our dairy barn that were apart of our feeding system,electric motors that reverse allows the flichs to return to you to edge on the mill.There is a roll conveyor between the mill and rollway that hinges up once you have loaded your log letting you walk the length of carriage with no obsticals.It also hold the boards that you return for edging ect. My best 8 hr day I ran 5000 bf of eastern white pine 1" x12" random length one man.The only time I handle boards is when Im stacking and stickering them.Machines do the rest. Being raised on a dairy farm or any farm for that mater makes for a good sawyer and millrite. Danger is apart of any operation!

[bandmiller2]

You hear Belsaw mentioned so much alot of folks think its the gold standard of circle mills.As stated their for farmers,and people that need a little lumber for projects.Back when they were developed circular mill were the only small time option,no small bands or swings.For the same price as a belsaw regular handset american classic mills can be had,such as Frick ,American, lane ,Chase,est.In fact with todays economy you can even step up to a modern mill for not much more.Belsaws will always do their job like the model "T"they brought milling to the people.Folks contemplating a mill purchase should spend some time working with the different types then chose the best type for yourself,they will all cut good lumber.Frank C.

[stevel]

Depends on what you want,any staionary setup will be less labour intensive, and with a good mechanical ability you can motify any machine to perform as you want no different than turning a madel t into a hot rod. Production ,acuracy, and efficiency is the gold standard which is why I opted for a circular mill I could motify. Ive been around allot of mill operations, so I new what I would do different. It takes time and a willingness and again its for the love of the work and then the dollar will come.

[bandmiller2]

Stevel,some of the improvments you've made to your Belsaw sound interesting please if possible show us some pictures.Anything to cut down the amount of help needed is worthwile.Frank C.

[stevel]

I will see if I can but its not my computor.Anything you can imagine that will save you time ,make accurate cuts ,minimize slab desposal ,resaw ,is worth doing,these mills are an inventors dream ,limits are endless as to making them perform the way you want,dont oversize the blade,48" is a good size,I do my fair share of blind sawing,so a stong chainsaw is a nessesity.The less fatiged you are the safer you are. an ideal sawlog is 16" to 18" small end dia x 16'.With a load of those your not wasting time and very few scab boards.I saw mostly eastern white pine,its a dream to run off and easy to market.The log turner and board conveyors increase productivity 10 fold,I wouldnt run it any other way as my back was broke and 4 levels were fused.If I can run off 5000 bf alone imagine what a healthy man can do.Enjoy it ,its a great industry.