Black Cherry Commercial Plantation

[Deadwood]

I have always loved the grain and figure of Black Cherry, and while I understand the Cherry here in New England will never get as big or high of quality as they have in Pennsylvania or New York, I have often thought about starting a Black Cherry plantation for sawlog production (not fruit production).

Black Cherry seems to prefer a lot of light and is usually one of the first species to overtake a fallow field so I thought they might do well as a plantation. I have some Black Cherry on my property now, so I am sure my soil would tolerate it (gravelly loam to a depth of 30 inches with the ph content more to the acidic side). Still, I would love to have more of this species around.

Do you know of any places to buy this type of seedlings in commercial bulk (I know you can buy them for fruit trees but the cost would be too high)?

Would you go with a plantation type setting (open field/ clear cut) or just plug them throughout the woodlot to add this species to the mix?

Would you have to use a mixture of male/ female trees for them to gow properly?

What sort of spacing would I need to encourage sawlog production...tight to promote straight tall trees, or open to give them room to grow?

I am not sure if I gave you enough information here to go on or not, but if you have any questions, let me know and I will try to answer them for you, so in turn you can help me with my question on Black Cherry Commercial Plantations

[Ron Scott]

Check with your Local Conservation District Forester to see if they have black cherry seedings available for purchase in your area. They can also provide you with a site speciic reforestation prescription for your area.

A soil analysis of your intended planting area should be obtained first. Black Cherry are fast growing, shade tolerant in youth, becoming intolerant and grows best in well-drained soils.

1-2 foot stock ran $85.00/100 from the local Conservation District here this past spring.

[bitternut]

Deadwood here is a nursery I have bought stock from. Our local extension service also deals with them I think. I have planted some cherry seedlings and I think they all will bear fruit. They start bearing right away. Deer like them too ( the trees and the fruit ).

Pine Grove Nursery, Inc.
152 Pine Grove Nursery Rd., Clearfield, PA 16830-9154 Tel: 814/765-2363 Fax: 814/765-2363

[Phorester]

We're selling black cherry seedlings this year along with over 40 other species.  $250/1,000 for the cherry.  Different quantities available.

http://www.dof.virginia.gov    Go to the "shop online" on the righthand edge.

To tell the truth, though, I'd shoot for a source closer to your locality since they will be more acclimated to your climate and soils.   For advice on spacing, planting site, etc., As Ron says, you need to talk to a local forester. 

[SwampDonkey]

Deadwood, try the folks at

Old Ridge Nursery ID#150
8752 Route 3, Old Ridge E3L 4W3
Phone: 506.466.2770 Fax: 506.465.0881
email: oldridge@nbnet.nb.ca

I beleive they have an office in Calais, Maine also.

Be prepared to deal with black knot. The best cherry I've seen locally germinated on hardwood sites that had small clearings from stovewood harvests. Clear boles with no black knot. You have to be careful though, if you have alot of beech or sugar maple regen they will soon over top it. Most cherry here grows on abandoned fields, apple orchards and line fences. If you have choke cherry in your area, it also carries the black knot fungus.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=5572.0

[Deadwood]

Thanks for all the help. I figured there was a reason no one was planting this stuff here in Maine. I know many of the cherry tree we do have have this problem. For 250 bucks though, it might be worth planting some and seeing how they turn out.

Thanks again.

[SwampDonkey]

Bed made from black cherry in my back yard.


Foot board



Head board

[bitternut]

So that is where you hang your hat eh. Nice job. That cherry sure is pretty wood. Is there stain on that or has it darkened that color on its own?

[SwampDonkey]

It darkens when you finish it with Verithane, looses it's pink color. The wood was all air dried in the barn.

[jon12345]

If you are just growing for production then I don't believe the number of male:female trees would matter for any species.

Goldenrod, asters, and Bracken Fern have a negative effect on Black Cherry so a little site prep may be required.

[SwampDonkey]

If you are just growing for production then I don't believe the number of male:female trees would matter for any species.

Goldenrod, asters, and Bracken Fern have a negative effect on Black Cherry so a little site prep may be required.

I have goldenrod and asters growing under my cherry. I was curious how they effect the cherry. You got a USDA report or a link I can see? Thanks

[jon12345]

SD-
One of the sites I found just said that it has a negative effect, and the other site I saw it on before I think is broke, that link is listed under 'toxic trees'  I couldnt get the link to work for me, so I'm not going to repost it but you can try it if ya want. It's at the bottom of the first page.

Here it be,  scroll down til ya see 'special uses' and it will be right above that
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/prunus/serotina.htm

[whitepine]

I contacted a federal forester about them planting red oak in my area which is not native we are to far north and he sent me a paper from Ontario dealing with global warming suggesting that one plant trees that are native to south of you  because they will do well  with the warming climate and they expect growth rates to increase by close to 30% with increased CO2!!!! The exampe they used was that red pine would fail and red oak prosper. Paper was a bit shocking to me something to think about. Some of the red oak planted here is about 15ft high now so I figure they have been doing the planting for some time but most of there plantings here are spruce and red pine ( I am in Northeastern MN) so they must be covering their bets.

[Minnesota_boy]

I think your forester is all wet.  I'm nearly as far north as you and we have red oak that are 20" dbh here.  They make poor lumber as the frost usually cracks them and damages the stem, but they still grow and thrive on the heavier soils.

Many federal foresters have gone to good schools to learn forestry, but the schools tend to teach about what trees are local to the school.  Then the forestry service sends them to a completely different part of the nation to work.  When they begin to learn of the variations that are in that locale, they are transferred to somewhere else.  Better to talk to a state forester as they tend to stay in one location long enough to learn what is there.  Talk to more than one as some aren't too sharp. 

[SwampDonkey]

whitepine, sounds like alot of bunk from your forester, even the paper is highly scepticle. If we can grow northern red oak as a native up here, some on mountains, then they'll grow fine in Minnesota. It's even native to the south shore of the Gaspe along the Bay of Chaleur and even further north in Gaspe Bay on the St Lawrence. It may be a surprise to you but burr oak is native to New Brunswick and even as far west at southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan. When folks think of Manitoba, they think prairies. 'What!!! There's no trees there.' Which is pure bunk. Other deciduous of Manitoba include basswood, red ash, black ash, box elder, red maple, wild plum, Canada plum, white elm, white birch, ironwood, eastern cottonwood, aspen and poplar.

[crtreedude]

I would concur about you really have to take what you read with a grain of salt and read many sources of information - and then drive around and look.

For example, I had always read that Purple Heart (Nazareno) was only on the Pacific side of Costa Rica - we are on the Atlantic. But, recently it was found on this side too. There wasn't anything stopping it from growing over here.

I found one of the best sources of information is farmers and wood workers. Nothing against forestry engineers - but they know what is in the books.

[jon12345]

At this rate we will all be bummin seedlings from crtree to start plantin in these northern states and canada   

[SwampDonkey]

I would concur about you really have to take what you read with a grain of salt and read many sources of information - and then drive around and look.

For example, I had always read that Purple Heart (Nazareno) was only on the Pacific side of Costa Rica - we are on the Atlantic. But, recently it was found on this side too. There wasn't anything stopping it from growing over here.

I found one of the best sources of information is farmers and wood workers. Nothing against forestry engineers - but they know what is in the books.

That was also true about Doug Fir, then they found it in Douglas Channel and way up in the Stewart, BC area in recent years.

[bugboy]

It seems to me that up in Maine the black cherry would get hammered by disease and insects.  Would it not be labor intensive to grow merchantable cherry in that area?

I've seen some really nice bl. cherry here, scattered mostly amongst other hardwood species (clear 16 ft logs).  I am willing to bet many bl. cherry met their demise, even in VA, from deer, insects, and some stem rots.

[whitepine]

Just for your information the paper was called " Impacts of  climate warming on forests in Ontario: Options for adaption and mitigation"  from the  January February 2000 Vol 76 No.1 The Forestry Chronical. Minnesota Boy you may want to look into the Minnesota DNR site do a search there is an article and it was also in the Volunteer Magazine  about climate change in Minneota saying within 50 years at present rate Minnesota would be like Nebraska. It really effects your area  More than mine your area would be grassland because of soil type and rainfall changes. I look at it as we have animals from down south now  up here racoons and possum  and that happened in my life time. I suppose this all depends on weather one believes global warming is good science or not, I plant trees all summer  so the future  is important to me. The possibility that tree ranges will shift 300 to 600KM north in 50 years will have to be taken into account if one accepts global warming. I would like to discuss this with others that  believe in global warming  so may try a  new topic just wanted to give deadwood another viewpoint. We shall agree to disagree

[Minnesota_boy]

I may be wrong about it and if I am I will be sad, but the people making these predictions haven't done too well so far.  I'll accept global warming, I've seen the changes in my lifetime, but the changes haven't been that it gets terribly hot in the summer nor is it a lot warmer in winter.  The change I've seen is in the length of the growing season.  When I was first married we raised a garden.  We knew that to plan green beans before June first was folly, as most years it would freeze them off about the 10th and we'd have to replant.  We also knew that we had to be ready to cover tomatoes in mid-august to keep them from freezing.  Now we could plant our beans in mid-may and have tomatoes ripening into September.  During that 30 year span, we had record cold too.  That doesn't work well for the plants that would migrage north.  We've had bad droughts that killed some trees, but we've also had record rainfall too.  The only thing I've seen that would indicate a change of the type of trees growing here is the infestation of the pine beetle that is killing the vast acreages of jack pine.  This may be a perennial problem, or it may pass.  I hope I live long enough to see if the prediction is right or wrong.

[whitepine]

Minnesota boy your experiencies like mine are why I think it is happening despite  examples to the other extreme ( I live near where we had the coldest reported temperature in lower 48 60 below F only about 10 years ago) .  Because of our long winters I have alot of time to read about things and my plans for the following summer. Diseases and fires are also  characteristics  of the changes  sad to say I sometimes wonder how any trees survive up here.

[SwampDonkey]

SD-
One of the sites I found just said that it has a negative effect, and the other site I saw it on before I think is broke, that link is listed under 'toxic trees'  I couldnt get the link to work for me, so I'm not going to repost it but you can try it if ya want. It's at the bottom of the first page.

Here it be,  scroll down til ya see 'special uses' and it will be right above that
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/prunus/serotina.htm

I found the reference to this in the Forestry Handbook: Second Edition

Horsley, Stephen B. 1977. Allelopathic inhibition of black cherry by fern, grass, goldenrod, and aster. Canadian Journal of Forest Research 7:205-216. They don't have this volume online, so you have to go to a forestry or Science library to find it.

[ToadHill]

I have been planting Black Cherry as a forest crop tree for many years.  The local deer don't bother the cherry but eat the Sugar Maple to the ground.  I plant in areas with full sun and keep the area mowed for the first 5 years.  The pH in the soil is about 5.5 and this species seems to like that just fine.  I have a lot of native Cherry in my woods, many in the 24 to 30 inch DBH range with at least 2 16' sawlogs in each.  I get my stock form the local DEC tree sale every spring and the cost for 1-2' seedlings has been $60 for 100 trees.  The survival rate averages about 80%.