Safety Advice for Newbie...

[Tillaway]

If not... it will be next spring.

[richnewill]

I was pointed to this discussion by Jeff Brokaw, since as a Loss Control Rep for the Michigan Association of Timbermen Self-Insurance Fund I regularly work toward the protection of loggers from injury.  It is crystal clear to me:  This is not a job for any newbie.  Furthermore, this job requires use of heavy equipment if it must be dealt with.  If it may be left alone, the area should be flagged to ensure no one walks under the tree inadvertently.  The first rule of logging is that all hangers must be pulled down before moving to the next chore.  This being a natural hanger, the rule may be hard to apply.  However, the reason for the rule is very simple.  Hangers are a real and present danger, easily forgotten within moments.  To cut this tree would certainly represent a challenge to any logger.  This challenge, though exciting and envigorating, is beyond the limits of common sense and personal safety.  DO NOT attempt this on your own.  Thanks for listening, and I commend the majority that wrote to say what I am restating here.  Life is too short and valuable to risk on such a tree.  If you survive, it could be as a permanent invalid.  Not worth it!  Rich Newill

[Jeff]

Does it bother anybody else that we never heard from Pascale again after he was supposed to go up after that tree?

I never heard of a tree getting anybody on the 9 and 10 news which I think covers that area so I take it he is alright. I sent him an email a while back but got no answer. :-/

[Tillaway]

They don't even report accidents like that in the news out here... too common I guess.

[Ron Scott]

I assume he left it alone and is ok. I haven't heard any U.P. news otherwise.

[Corley5]

I thought about him the other day too.  I was dealing with a maple that hung up.  Since I was cutting it for firewood I started blocking off chunks.  I'd cut through from the top side until it just started to pinch and then cut up from the bottom.  After a few of these it rolled a bit and came out of the tree it was hanging in.  Take into consideration that in this instance there was no side bind and it was a much smaller tree than the ash Pascale was going to deal with.  Today I cut a large beech that hung up.  I used the tractor to pull it down.

[Paschale]

Hi Everyone,

I see that my topic has gotten some airtime again, and I have been remiss in replying!  My trip got delayed a couple of weeks, and since I've been back, I've been swamped, so I apologize for the delayed reply.  I am happy to report that I am alive and well...and that we got the Ash tree safely down.  It's stacked and stickered, drying at my dad's place.

The forum had pretty sober words about the dangers of bringing it down.  When my dad and I went up, we weren't positive that we'd even attempt it, based on the advice from the forum.  But, as several on the forum suggested, taking a close look at the situation was required.  We felt that we could get it down for a couple of reasons--I could describe the situation in another post if people are interested.

Part of my reason for not responding was that since the majority of responses said "don't do it!," I thought that maybe because I did end up doing it, I'd get a bit of a verbal lashing from the forum.  Especially considering the last post before my trip up, from a forestry loss control officer!

Anyway, please accept my apologies for not replying sooner!  And thanks for all the advice too!

PS  JeffB--I must have deleted your email by mistake.  My email here on the forestryforum is my secondary one, and so yours probably got lost in amongst the myriad of spam which goes in the trash bin.

Here are a couple pics...





And just before stacking...

[Kevin]

Nice job.
It`s not so much doing the job but knowing the dangers involved.
If you aren`t aware of the potential dangers and just start hacking away at a hung tree you`re asking for trouble and I suspect you approached this tree with some respect and looked it over real well before making any cuts.

[Jeff]

PS  JeffB--I must have deleted your email by mistake.  My email here on the forestryforum is my secondary one, and so yours probably got lost in amongst the myriad of spam which goes in the trash bin.

I'm feeling pretty dejected right now knowing that I am part of "a myriad of spam"  but I am still relieved to hear that you are O.K.

[Paschale]

You know Jeff...I reread what I wrote...and I could have written that a bit better!  How could anyone's email from the good ole forestry forum be spam?  I just hit the delete button in hotmail, because all I could see was spam, spam, spam.  Little did I know I sent a valuable email to an untimely death!

Anyway...it's definitely good to have that ash, and it's even better to be alive!

[Corley5]

Glad to hear it went well!!  Looking over the situation and thinking about it is always the best.  Never rush head first into anything.  That tree made some nice lumber.  What are your plans for it?

[Paschale]

Corley,

I'm pretty pleased with the results of the lumber.  I haven't completely calculated how much lumber I was able to get out of the five logs, but it's quite a bit!  I hope to do several projects with it, though the primary one will be to build new kitchen cabinets.  We'll see how much that takes, and the rest will just be for fun projects.

Dan M.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 Heay Paschale,

Glad you made it through, You have to start somewhere!

Nice Lumbermate. Yet another OTHER Orange!

[IndyIan]

Hi Paschale,
I was wondering if you could post how you took that tree down.  I had one in the exact same position except the leaner had a V and it hung up on another tree and now they are both leaners....
The first leaner fell this spring and I had not taken my chainsaw course yet so I left it alone and the second tree uprooted in the middle of the summer.  Fortunatley the second tree is hung up in some small(40ft) cedars so I won't lose any more good trees to this domino effect.

My best guess is to cut the first leaner like a normal heavy leaning tree, notch the front, and plunge cut the back cut leaving a good hinge, then cut through the holding wood and take a few quick steps back.  Hopefully they will both fall then or I'll try and winch the butt from behind the stump and back until the whole tree is on the ground.  
I'll post some pics of this situation if I remember to bring the digital camera to the woods this weekend.
 

[Tom]

It's not just a leaning tree if the top is hung.  you may have to undercut the tree to keep it from pinching your saw. Look at it closely before you get too committed. You may have to take your notch from the top and cut the backcut from undereneath with the back of the bar.

I'd be willing to bet that you will end up using the winch.

Please be careful.

[Paschale]

Indylan,

Sorry I've not responded sooner to your post.  You asked for my advice--honestly, I don't feel qualified to give advice when it comes to felling trees, since this really was my first go at it, and I didn't even actually do the cutting.  It was an incredibly stressful situation to be sure, and not one that I would have attempted on my own.  We cut it with a guy who's had quite a bit of experience in the woods, and even so, it was nerve-wracking to say the least.  As it turned out, in our case, there wasn't a problem.  We did utilize chains and a tractor to help guide the tree, and I don't think we would have attempted it without that power.  Anyway, I wish you the best of luck, and if you're able to post some pictures on here, there will certainly be others with much more experience than me that can help you.

Best of luck,

Dan M.

[tony_marks]

after the hugo hurricane ,i was working one just about like this.
one of many i did with no incident. i tried to  make a cut. when it went ,it was so fast that it past me, as i was retreating. just a foot to the side and i just plain wouldnt be here . the tree was as large as yours an real sprung into a  bigger tree than yours.that one had me layin awake at nite for a while.pull it loose an down before foolin with it ,would be my advice.
ps u probably know this but if its still attached to the root ball dont be anywhere near that if u cut. little girl got killed that same day .
the root ball sprung back up with her in the hole.as i remember
her dad then got his gun walked into the woods and never came back alive . this a real sad story ,but just one of many.

[IndyIan]

Well I still haven't remembered to bring my digital camera and I definetely haven't thought about cutting down my hang up trees.  The stories here are a good dose of reality of what can happen when big trees are hung up...  Hopefully some weekend I'll go have a look at them and they're on the ground!  If not I guess I can wait till they are.  
There are some good timbers in those trees for my house so hopefully they don't rot before they come down.
Play safe,
Ian

[L. Wakefield]

   Yes- last time I walked fence (during hunting season- multi-tasking as usual)- there was a little section near the swamp where popples had leaned over and were like slow dominoes. I saw one leaner then as I was scanning I realized I was standing under another and I looked over and saw a 3rd- all at the same angle. I am assuming it's a combo of wind load and soil plane. They all are falling 'uphill' or away from water. 'Away' is a relative term, since it's right up close under the roots. Dank and dismal area. No value for sawlogs, I am certain. There was one standing up a ways on up the fence line- dead- and when I used it as a fence post the wood was really punky to staple into. lw