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Author Topic: Thrown Cord  (Read 4020 times)

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Offline Corley5

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Thrown Cord
« on: November 23, 2005, 11:53:48 pm »
I came across this definition of a thrown cord from the State of Maine Attorney General.  Is there any other definitions for a thrown cord ???


§ 19.5. Firewood

Firewood is a substantial supplier of our energy needs. Mainers burn nearly one million cords of wood each year. A lot of people are buying wood, a lot of people are selling it, and a lot of buyers are filing complaints about those sales.

Maine law prohibits the use of confusing terms in the sale of firewood such as "rack," "pile" and "truckload" since such terms are undefined and subject to various meanings. Maine law does provide two definitions of a cord; one for a stacked cord, the other for a loose thrown cord.

A. Stacked Cord

A stacked or standard cord6 is a measure of wood, bark and air: 4 feet wide, 4 feet high and 8 feet long, or its equivalent, containing 128 cubic feet when the wood is ranked and well stowed. "Ranked and well stowed" means that pieces of wood are placed in a row, with individual pieces touching and parallel to each other, and stacked in a compact manner. Any voids that will accommodate a stick, log or bolt of average dimensions to those in that pile must be deducted from the measured volume.

B. Loose Thrown Cord

Maine law also defines a loose thrown cord7 as: "Fuel wood, when sold loose and not ranked and well stowed, shall be sold by the cubic foot or loose cord, unless other arrangements are made between the buyer and seller. When sold by the loose cord, the wood in any cord shall average either 12 inches, 16 inches, or 24 inches in length. When so sold, the volume of the cord shall be: a cord of wood 12 to 16 inches in length shall mean the amount of wood, bark and air contained in a space of 180 cubic feet; and a cord of wood 24 inches in length shall mean the amount of wood, bark and air contained in a space of 195 cubic feet."

Firewood dealers usually deliver loose thrown cords. The volume of a loose thrown cord can best be measured in a container, i.e., a truck. Once a loose thrown cord is stacked it should measure somewhere between 115 and 124 cubic feet per cord.

C. Written Receipts

Maine law requires firewood dealers to give you a receipt8 for any sale of more than $20. The receipt must include:

(1) Buyer's and seller's names and addresses;

(2) Date delivered;

(3) Quantity of wood delivered (and quantity upon which the price is determined if different from the amount delivered);

(4) Price (please note: sellers cannot misrepresent the price of the wood nor represent the price in any way that would mislead the buyer);9

(5) Description of wood (e.g., 50% red oak, rest mixed hardwood); and

(6) Statement of quality (e.g., dry or seasoned).

Insist upon a receipt. In case a dispute arises, it may be valuable evidence of what the dealer promised to deliver.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2005, 12:05:55 am »
North Dakota
64-01-07. Standard measurement of wood. In all contracts for the sale of wood, theterm "cord" shall mean one hundred twenty-eight cubic feet [3.62 cubic meters] of wood, infour-foot [1.22-meter] lengths. If the sale is of "sawed wood", a cord shall mean one hundred tencubic feet [3.11 cubic meters] when ranked, or one hundred sixty cubic feet [4.53 cubic meters]when thrown irregularly or loosely into a conveyance for delivery to the purchaser. If the sale isof "sawed and split" wood, a cord shall mean one hundred twenty cubic feet [3.39 cubic meters]when ranked and one hundred seventy-five cubic feet [4.96 cubic meters] when thrownirregularly and loosely into a conveyance for delivery
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2005, 12:11:10 am »
Minnesota

What is a cord?
A cord has a specific legal definition in Minnesota:

One cord is 128 cubic feet in four foot lengths.
If the wood is sawed, a cord is 110 cubic feet when ranked, or 160 cubic feet when thrown loosely into a truck.
If the wood is sawed and split, a cord is 120 cubic feet when ranked, and 175 cubic feet when thrown loosely into a truck. (Minnesota Statutes, Section 239.33)
Must I buy my wood in cords?
No. You and the seller may enter into any agreement you choose, but be aware that words like truckload, face cord, rick, fireplace cord, or pile, have no legal definition. The Weights and Measures Division can not help you in a dispute if the wood is not sold by the cubic foot, the cubic meter, or the cord.

How do I calculate the number of cords I receive in a delivery?
If the wood is ranked, multiply the wood pile's height by its length and stick (piece) length (height x length x stick length) and divide by 110 if the wood is sawed, by 120 if the wood is sawed and split, and 128 in all other cases. Remember to make all your measurements in feet.

# cords of ranked sawed wood = (height x length x stick length)/110
# cords of ranked sawed and split wood = (height x length x stick width)/120
# cords of all other ranked wood = (height x length x stick width)/128

If the wood is loosely thrown into the back of a truck, measure the dimensions of the truck bed and the height of the wood in feet. Multiply the height of the wood by the length and width of the truck bed. Divide by 160 if the wood is sawed, or by 175 if the wood is sawed and split.

# cords of sawed wood loosely thrown into a truck = (height of wood x truck bed's length x truck bed's width)/160
# cords of sawed and split wood loosely thrown into a truck = (height of wood x truck bed's length x truck bed's width)/175

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2005, 12:14:22 am »
New Zeeland Ministry of Consumer Affairs

Made to measure – be informed when buying firewood
As the weather begins to get colder, our thoughts turn to winter preparation, in particular keeping warm! If you’ve got a fireplace or woodburner, firewood goes on the list of priorities.

When a cord is not a measurement
Recent experience tells us that people still think in “cords” when purchasing their firewood supply, but not many could tell you how big a cord actually is.

Firstly, a cord (equal to 3.62 cubic metres) is not a legal term of measurement. Just as you can’t buy cloth by the yard, milk by the pint or fruit by the pound, nor can you buy firewood by the cord because it is not a metric quantity.

Secondly, when making any purchase, it’s important to have an appreciation of the amount you should be receiving. It is likely you’ll know roughly how much a metre of material is, what a litre of milk looks like and how many bananas you’ll get for a kilogram. The same applies to firewood – to avoid getting ripped off, it pays to know approximately the amount you expect to be receiving for the price you’re paying.

Legal measurement for firewood
Firewood can be sold either by volume – ie, cubic metres – or by description – eg, a truck load, a trailer load or sackful. It is accepted that firewood will be sold as a “thrown measure” – ie, as if it were thrown into a container, not as if it were stacked.

While firewood merchants are not required to sell wood by volume, those that do must use an approved measure. An approved measure could be a truck, trailer or bin that has been approved and verified as accurate by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs’ Measurement and Product Safety Service (MAPSS). MAPSS’ role includes ensuring that trade is conducted on the basis of fair and accurate measurement.

An approved measure for firewood will have on it a lead stamping plug imprinted with a Crown. It will also be marked with its volume in cubic metres, and an identification and certificate approval number. MAPSS can tell you the traders in your area that have a certificate of approval for their firewood measures (see contact details for MAPSS below).

When buying firewood by volume, the merchant should provide you with an invoice stating the true net weight or measure of the quantity delivered.

Tips to help you buy wise
Whether buying by weight or description, how will you know that you’re getting a fair deal? MAPSS has the following advice.

Shop around to get a competitive price. Look in the Yellow Pages, local newspaper or community newspaper, and trade magazines for local firewood merchants and check out the going rate.
Ask friends for a recommendation of a reputable source.
If buying by volume, check that the merchant is MAPSS certified.
If buying by description, make sure you’re happy with the quantity before committing to buy it. You may wish to see it first.
Ask about the condition of the firewood. Wood that is green or wet is poor quality for burning and will lose density (and therefore value) as it dries.
Remember that firewood is sold as a ‘thrown measure’ so will reduce by one-third in volume when it is stacked.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2005, 08:41:17 am »
Of course you could always load your best guess of a cord of wood give the wood away and charge for loading and trucking  ;)

Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2005, 09:12:37 am »
Of course you could always load your best guess of a cord of wood give the wood away and charge for loading and trucking ;)

 8) 8) ;D ;)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2005, 10:02:16 am »
I'm glad I don't live in those areas. If I was a consumer, I wouldn't know what the heck I had. But, for sure I'de feel cheeted because every load of wood would be different. I know that if you stack a pile of firewood 15 times it will always be different. But, I'm talking about a difference of 1/4 and 1/2 cord or more.

I don't know what the think of that thrown cord issue, but it's right up there with scaling logs using the small diameter I suppose. ;D

Actually in NZ case, they don't use imperial units and won't except them in commerce. Here in Canada we are also metric, but we except old imperial units. It's funny some mills buy by metric and some by old imperial.  ::) The NZ wording would make you think a cord wasn't a volumetric measurement.  ::)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2005, 10:15:18 am »
What I find interesting is that in Maine it's legal if the thrown cord stacks up to between 115 and a 124 cubic feet.  A cord is 128 cubic feet.  The Maine code states that but it's fine if a thrown cord stacks up short ::)  I don't want to stack wood to sell it.  That adds a huge amount of labor to a firewood business.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2005, 10:53:10 am »
I think some guys do a 'test'. They have a panel truck they throw stacked firewood into so they have a good feel for the capacity of the truck. If not they ask their buyers to let them know if they are short. Then they just cut, split and convey right into the truck with their processor after that. They usually top it slightly more than their test loads. I know the guys I buy from always ask me, "if the load is short let me know", type of thing. ;) The only folks that stack their firewood for sale don't deliver. Maybe I shouldn't say 'only', but they'de be insane otherwise. ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2005, 11:54:11 am »
SwampDonkey nailed it right on the head, 'test' then a little extra
Bill

Offline Corley5

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2005, 12:00:51 pm »
I never had any intention of stacking wood in the trailer for delivery ;) ;D  It'll be thrown in :)  The first load I run with the elevator I'll then stack.  My trailer without side boards is 160 cubic with it's 240.  I'll do a "test load"
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2005, 01:02:16 pm »
The way I do it I have a wood bin I run my elevator to. It piles up then I load with a skidloader 7 rounded buckets in a 3/4 yard bucket scooped up makes my cord. Done between 250-300 cords (I lost track some place about a month ago) and no complaints of volume.  I've done firewood like this for 16yrs. But every once in a while you get that guy that has nothing better to do than spend all day stacking one cord and will always complain. It's to long -to short- twisty- knotty-punky-wont burn -burns to fast thats the guy I give the wood to and charge for loading and trucking.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Thrown Cord
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2005, 01:56:23 pm »
Father would just tell'm 'it'll make straight ashes' . If it's trouble burning seasononed wood it's often related to draft problems. Also, realize that maple does not start as easily as beech or yellow birch. That is well documented. I like to have some small stuff mixed in because it's ignites alot quicker. I have mostly maple and when I stick some well seasoned maple tops in on some very low coals that are almost gone, then put my bigger wood in on top, then open the draft , before I get upstairs I got a roaring fire. I've never complained about any of my firewood, if it's green I know it before it's delivered. I know the work that goes into this business and nobody is getting rich off of it. So I'll aways side with the firewood guy unless I know he's crook. One complaint I hate to hear is 'It's too small', geeesh, the guy has to use the whole tree from top to bottom, none of this sort'n out the tops BS. As you've implied Sawyer, that's when the price goes up. ;) ;D :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry