Bar & Chain oil

[Larry]

Latest price.  Poulan $4.49/gallon...Stihl $7.49/gallon.  So what is the secret ingredient Stihl uses that makes there oil $3.00 more per gallon?   Does anybody think the price difference is warranted? 

[jokers]

Nope, but you can`t get Poulan oil at the Stihl dealer either.

[Rocky_J]

Bar lube is bar lube. It's all good and it only needs to work for one or two trips around the bar. Wally World, you can get Poulan bar lube for $2.78 per gallon. I usually buy 6 at a time and restock when I get low. I used to pay the extra for the Stihl bar lube but not any more.

[DanManofStihl]

I use any oil except for the walmart brand that is just motor oil. It does not work that well. I can't tell a difference from the stihl oil and the poulan oil. Also the poulan is 1/3 of the price of stihl oil.

[Billy_Bob]

I get my Stihl oil for around $5.60 or $5.30 (forget exact amount) a gallon when I buy a case. Six containers to a case.

I read somewhere Stihl oil has an anti "fling" agent or some such thing. But I don't buy it for that reason. Maybe I should?

The reason I buy Stihl oil is I was told some other bar oil is recycled and may contain metal particles. And that recycled oil will not lubricate the parts as well as new oil.

I've looked at the various containers of bar oil I have and read the labels. I have not found one which says "recycled oil" on it. I don't know if they are required to say recycled on the label or not if it is in fact recycled. Anyone know?

Anyway I have not had time to mess with it, so have bought Stihl oil. It would be nice to know if certain brands of oil are in fact recycled or not, and if recycled oil contains metal particles or not, and if "new" oil lubricates the saw parts better?

[Engineer]

Why couldn't someone just use vegetable oil - kinda like using biodiesel in a truck?  Oil is oil for bar lube, right?

[ely]

then you would be hungry all the time you were sawing,is someone cooking french fries.
heres a funny story, back when i was a small child my duty was to load all the wood i could carry in the truck while my dad and uncle cut it. they would load the bigger stuff later. well they got the bright idea of using used motor oil for bar and chain oil. it did not take long for them to figure out they were wrong on that. and these are two above average intellegent folks. i dont think it ruined the bar and chain totally but i am sure it shortened the life greatly. man it did make for a great smoke show while they figgered it out. and another uncle years later had to buy a new saw when he decided that havoline motor oil would be just as good as 2 stroke mix. go figure.

[mike_van]

I buy the cheapest I can get, usually Master Mechanic from Tru Value for 3.00 a gal. on sale.  I don't believe my chains get duller faster or my bars wear more than anyone elses.  It's like putting premium gas in a car made to run on the lowest octane - waste of $$$$$ to me.

[MSU_Keith]

I notice that oil viscosity does make a difference in the amount used.  For the same cutting conditions and oiler setting I'll go through 1 tank of bar oil for every tank of gas using the Stihl product, but using the Tractor Supply brand (Traveller?) I'll still have a 1/4 tank of bar oil after using a full tank of gas.  The TSP brand seams thicker when you poor it.  Can't tell if this is good or bad - more oil applied probably helps the chain life but running on empty towards the end tank of gas can't be good for the chain.

[GammaDriver]

The viscosity required, then, would probably be dependant on the temperature one would use it at (like, here in south Florida perhaps i ought to be using the thicker vis bar oil if I knew what brand it was and where to find it), and perhaps somewhat dependent on the saw's ability to apply oil (a poor oiler would need thinner oil).

My question to the pros out there (and this is arbitrary as bar oil viscosities really aren't advertised or published, so many of us really can't choose): temperature and saw being equal, do you see any reason sawing some woods would / could use a thinner or thicker viscosity oil if you did have the choice?  Do some woods make a chain lose lubrication faster, and thus require more lube to be applied?

No, I'm not nearly a pro - I'm just curious now that viscosity has been brought up. 

[Mike_Barcaskey]

the Poulan at Wal-Mart is my choice also, except ours is $2.83 a gallon
I use that in the 460 mag and 361

I use QV brand veggie oil from Wal-mart in my 200's and 026, it's about $5 a gallon. Over the last year I can see no discernable wear from the veggie oil, however it runs about twice as fast thru the saw. got to refill the bar oil 2x for every tank of gas.
I use the veggie oil because it has sealed several contracts on the tree service side of my business. Some customers like the eco-friendly warm and fuzzy feeling

[Frickman]

I have a thing for using OEM parts and accesories when possible, and this goes to my saws too. I run nothing but Stihl bar and chain oil in my saws, and get incredible life from my bars. A Stihl rep told me at a show that a bar should last for three or six chains, I can't seem to remember. By keeping mw chain properly adjusted and sharp, and using Stihl oil I get a dozen or more chains out of a bar.

There are different viscosities of oil. Stihl regular bar and chain is about a thirty weight or forty weight. They have a winter grade oil that is ten weight. This makes it easier to pour and I believe it's easier on the oiler. If you can't justify buying a whole gallon of winter oil just store the summer weight in a warm building until it's used.

Many oilers have been ruined by used motor oil. The oil has fine particles, both metal and dirt, that tear up the oiler. The oiler is a pump with close tolerances and it just eats it up.

A neighbor buys Poulan Bar and Chain at Wally World. He wears out oilers and bars faster than me too.

Stihl saws have a thing called Ecomatic. When you match the correct bar and chain with a saw you can turn the oiler volume back to a predetermined setting. If you do this with a saw used professionally you are supposed to save enough oil to pay for the saw over the course of it's life.

Stihl, and all the other brands, don't make their oil, refineries do on contract to their specs. If the Stihl oil is that much more expensive I'd believe they are adding things their competitors aren't.

[Captain]

My experience is more middle of the road.  I use a no name brand that is a high quality cling type of lubricant.  I can sell it for $5.50/gallon.  I find the Poulan oil is consumed faster and not worth the cost savings. 

On to Frickman's comment, Oregon says 3 chains = 1 bar and one drive rim/spur sprocket.  My customers average probably 6 chains.  They don't stay out of the dirt!!

Captain

[sawguy21]

Why couldn't someone just use vegetable oil - kinda like using biodiesel in a truck? Oil is oil for bar lube, right?

It is your nickel but I firmly believe in using the best oil available. Veggie oil is great for quartering game but not the best for wood unless staining is a problem. The chain needs it's lube on the underside of the bar where most cutting is done. An oil not designed for the purpose will fly off at the bar tip and  leave a dry cutting surface. Why put oil in it in the first place? Heck, bars and chains must be cheaper south of the border  than a gallon of oil.

[beenthere]

I've the same bar (Windsor 20" roller nose) on my 041 Stihl that came with the saw in '75. I have gone through more than a dozen chains (I'd guess closer to 18), and I get a new sprocket with every two chains. I use the Stihl oil, hand sharpen my chains (except if tearing up barb wire or an insulator), and think things have held up well. I have had the bar jointed twice in 30 years. I am not a professional everyday wood cutter but the saw rarely sets around very long with nothing to cut.   
Not sure I'd like getting a new bar with every 3 chains, in fact I KNOW I wouldn't like that. Oil may be oil, but mine will be Stihl just cause I think it deserves it. 

[Engineer]

Why couldn't someone just use vegetable oil - kinda like using biodiesel in a truck? Oil is oil for bar lube, right?

It is your nickel but I firmly believe in using the best oil available.

Well, it was just a question of curiosity.  I use the Stihl oil, always have, always will.  I can justify eight or nine bucks a year for a gallon, that's about all I cut and all I need.  I use winter weight starting about now and going right through May.   Don't do much cutting in the summer so the gallon of summer weight oil is on its' third year.   

[Deadwood]

I guess I have never put much stock in the bar and chain oil debate. I am sure there is a diffrence as I know true bar and chain oil is "stringy." That being said, I have always used hydraulic oil, used at that, since most of it came from the hydraulic oil changed out of the skidders.

Now I use an Oil called Brad Penn DDS Plus 9115. It's nothing super great I'm sure, but it's what we use in the locomotives where I work for Base Oil and thus a five gallon can is VERY resonable, if you read can between the lines on that one.

Basically I will use anything for oil. I have never noticed my saw getting dull quicker or my bars not lasting long enough and at 7 bucks a gallon, it only takes a few gallons to match the price of a new bar.

Just my two cents

[sawguy21]

I remember a logger who kept coming in with his Stihl 041 complaining that the oiler quit working. I charged him each time for cleaning the system because he insisted on using the oil drained from the Cat diesel He had been doing it for years with his old manual oiler Pioneer with no problems

[Al_Smith]

 Well this debate has been going on for some time,internet forum wide.I use TSC oil,works ok for me.The stickiness of the bar oil is due to a tacking agent[like STP,in a way],which causes the oil to cling to the metal parts,like bar and chain.
  I've heard good reports from people using vegatable oil but I've never tried it myself.
  I run all my saws with the oilers set wide open and will say that Stihl oilers are mighty stingy on the amount they put out.On the contrary my big McCullochs will oil any bar I put on them including my big old 48" and just blow oil off the end.
 I'm a believer in using a lot of oil.I've got 40 year old saws,with still usable bars,although they have been redressed a few times.

[Coon]

Well, well, well,  I guess I must put my two cents into this one.   

I have got a really good friend that works in a refinery.  Yuppers, a refinery.  I questioned him on this topic a couple of years ago and he just said listen here......  " Do not use cheap no name brand oils in anything that you own.  They are cheap for a reason...... LOWER GRADE PRODUCT. "  He then went on to ask me what I used for bar and chain lube on my chainsaws.  I just said that I used what ever I had or whatever I could afford at the time.  He went on to tell me some of the testing he had personally done while on his inturnship at the refinery and well before he got his present job.  It turns out that the cheap no name brand oils have a totally different texture and viscosity than its more expensive brand name competitors.  He has shown me how cheap oils have a tendancy to be sort of stringy and clumpy like and comes out of the jug that way.  The same (or so say same) viscosity oils in the brand names do not come out that way but rather come out like oil should.    It's just like when you compare pouring water out of a bucket and then pouring slush out of the same bucket.   


Now I hope you guys see my point.  I use only top dollar oils, lubricants, and fuels.   Just look at my old Jonsered 630 for example.  It was built in 1983 and has fell in excess of 5,000,000 bdft of saw logs and in the 1000's of cords of firewood and probably 3,000,000 bdft of bucking up saw logs.  I rest my case.

[floyd]

Those of you going thru bars, do you file the rails periodically? do you turn the bar over periodically?
   do you grease the tip?

Arer you using rim sprockets?

Do you file the drivers after you throw a chain?

[Rocky_J]

Those of you going thru bars, do you file the rails periodically? do you turn the bar over periodically?
   do you grease the tip?

Arer you using rim sprockets?

Do you file the drivers after you throw a chain?

I'm not sure exactly who this is addressed to but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, I file the rails periodically and I flip the bar about once per week (or every time I give the saw a thorough cleanup). I've never greased a tip in my life, although I use an air hose nozzle to clean it out thoroughly every time I have it off the saw. It is ALWAYS saturated with bar lube so additional grease is unnecessary IMHO.

Most of my saws use rim sprockets. My climbing saw (Stihl 200T) came with a spur sprocket and the last time I changed it I just bought another spur instead of switching it over. This was mostly due to what was available off my dealer's shelf that day.

I've never filed drivers on a chain. Years ago I learned the 'redneck' method of fixing a chain with burred drivers. Put it back on a little loose and fire up the saw, then hold it at WOT for 15 seconds. Then stop and readjust the chain. Luckily I don't need to do this very often any more. But if that doesn't work, I'll throw the chain away and put a new one on. It's been about 5 years since I threw away a chain due to boogered drivers.

I ain't recommending anything for anyone else, just saying the way I do it. I'm positive that some bookreading safety type person could poke a lot of holes in some of my methods. There are also a lot of things I do that I wouldn't let a new saw user do. I just do what works for me and I feel that I am plenty safe for my level of experience.

[floyd]

rockyJ, there is opening to grease tip on side for a reason. I do not grease mine very often either.

I am not telling you how to maintain your equipment, it is your equipment.

I will do same on drivers but have taken flat file to really bad burrs.

[Hoop]

For me to purchase Stihl bar oil at $5.00 - $6.00/gallon, they'd have to have a young shapely topless female load it on my pickup, and then linger about.  Barring that, there is no way I'd even think about buying the overpriced stuff.  I figure if one buys overpriced items, they are sending a message to the parent company.........to screw us on additional items.  There are enough over priced items in the world without paying this kind of outlandish price for bar oil.
Bar oil has a small amount of tach additive, which prevents the oil from "slinging" off.  Stihl bar oil has it, Wally World bar oil has it and so does every other bar oil.

I suspect the people that purchase overpriced Stihl bar oil are the same ones that pay inflated prices for Harley Davidson oil.

[beenthere]

Sorry Hoop.
I buy the Stihl bar and chain oil, but don't have a HD    
But I still have the original bar, which just might mean I don't use the saw enough to wear it out, or that the Stihl oil does the job. But then, either buy the oil or buy a new bar. Probably comes out a wash either way. Don't know. 
I be happy though. 

PS  I'm content without the ystf loading my oil. I can carry it, no problem.   

[Deadwood]

The problem with this post is that I agree with everyone. I am quite certain the higher priced oils are better, but considering the fact that the bar of a chainsaw is a consumable, I would have to have some pretty good data for me to switch to high priced bar and chain oil.

As for maintenance I file the rails, seldom throw chains, but use the motor to get the burr off as another mentioned, and never, ever grease the tip. I'm an accomplished logger so I don't try to drive the tip of the saw into the ground, but the first time I do, I've just impacted that grease with dirt. Kiss that tip good bye because the ports aren't big enough to purge the dirt out of the bar. In the 15 years I have been logging (some of those years professionally) I have only smoked one tip.

I guess if I am guilty of anything, it would be my use regular lube oil causes me to throw more oil into the environment. I'm not an environmentalist, but that is about the only bad thing I can say about my use of free oil.

[mike_van]

Hey Hoop - I've heard that Jeep Cherokee drivers get genuine Jeep air in their tires -    And, they change it for winter or summer drining - 

[1953greg]

sounds like a tossup.  here's the tiebreaker.

for me the ultimate test for bar oil is milling.  i use an 066 w/ 42" bar cutting 36" red oak slabs.  certainly i have not used all oils (maybe 6 or 7) but the one that markedly keeps the bar the coolest is citgo mystic @ $5/gal.

 less heat = less friction = better lube.  how much better, i dont know.

 i have not made a quantative analysis but feeling is believing.

dont know whats in it but it works best for me.    good day

[Gary_C]

I buy and use a lot of bar oil. In a full day of cutting with the harvester, I will use about a half gallon of bar oil. Here in Minnesota we need both summer and winter oil because you cannot open up your oiler enough in the winter temps with a high viscosity summer oil.

I am a firm believer in using the best oil you can buy for engines, transmissions, gear boxes, and hydraulic systems because it has to avoid thermal breakdown, maintain film forming ability, and suspend dirt and deposits for a long time. However, bar oil just has to be reasonably clean and just stick to the bar and chain just briefly and then I need to see some fly off the chain as I am cutting. Any bar oil that I have bought seems to work just fine. I usually buy cases of six gallons of a generic packaged bar oil and recently I grabbed 4 gallons of Poulan bar oil in Walmart and it worked just as good as the generic packaged oil I usually buy at the equipment dealers.



As far as bar and chain life on a chainsaw, I think how well you care for your saw will determine the life of bars and chains, not the brand of bar oil. Cutting stumps too low, cutting up logs that have been laying on the ground, and leaving your saw in the back of your pickup while driving down dusty roads will shorten bar and chain life far more than the brand of bar oil you use. However if you are convinced that your name brand bar oil is better than others, the marketing people have done a good selling job on you.

It's you money, spend it as you see fit.  

[rebocardo]

> oil viscosity

Once the saw is hot, so is the oil, at least on my Huskies. So, I think when I am using 20w-50 it is a good thing in the hot GA weather 

Seriously, I have used everything including car oil when I have run out or forgotten my bar oil.  The only difference I have seen is cost. Even when using my chainsaw mill I saw no extra bar wear. I have been using the same 20" and 28" bar for years now. The 28" is getting a little splayed, so I might get a bar rail closer, though I clean it up with the bar file when it gets a burr.

[Dan_F]

I use Motion Lotion from baileys. It works great in normal cutting conditions and doesn't gum up like some other oils. It does dry out in real tough cutting conditions but that is rare.

[Max sawdust]

I use a cheap generic kind.  I do notice differences in bar oil.  Find one you like and stick with it.  I too feel that bars and chains are consumable items, so personally I do not buy the most expensive bars or the most expensive bar oil.  I flip the bar when I put a new chain on, I file my bar on the flip.  I grease the bar tip but after reading this thread I may stop.

If I were slabbing with a big expensive bar I might consider more expensive bar oil.

Again they are consumables safety and not overheating/overworking the saw is my goal.
Max

[jokers]

Stihl, and all the other brands, don't make their oil, refineries do on contract to their specs. If the Stihl oil is that much more expensive I'd believe they are adding things their competitors aren't.

They sure are! More profit!

 

[inspectorwoody]

Looking through some old threads and thought I would add some information to this - The following information comes from a gentleman whom I spoke with and gave me permission to post the information here.

I've seen lots of posts where it's stated that all bar oil is the same and that it's just refinery junk... So I asked the question of Stihl... "why is your bar oil so special (expensive)" and here's what they say (paraphrased).

Stihl bar oil is Napthetic based, and most other bar oils are typically Parafinic (meaning wax based).

There are only 3 refineries in the US that produce Napthetic base oil. Only One produces Stihl bar oil - Omni. Omni offers a closed system meaning no other products flow through this line except Stihl. The napthetic base Stihl uses is a virgin base and is not re-refined or recycled oils since these types will always contain suspended contaminants. They also use twice as much paratac, (sticky) as anyone else. Paratac is the most expensive additive in bar oil which is one of the reasons Stihl more expensive.

Parafinic means wax based, so it gets thin when hot, thick when cold. Temperature does not have the same marked effect on napthetic oil while giving them a much broader operating range (bar/chain temperature is part of this)

Stihl is virgin oil base - and the other have up to 10% junk because they don't use a dedicated line like stihl does. Not sure it make for a significantly better bar oil, but Stihl thinks it is...

If anyone is interested in a good paper on basic oil types, napthenic, parraffinc etc... etc..


http://www.pdhengineer.com/Course%20...0Additives.pdf

Other:

Stihl's choice of napthenic base seems be based on not requiring the inclusion of additives to reduce the pour point - just virgin napthenic Base and Paratec. They believe it works better across the temperature ranges of bar/chain needs, and that their winter grade is only required at temperatures less than 20F, if that's a valid data point in this discussion.

Whether Stihl bar oil works better than another brand or other base chemistry will always be debated , but the single point packager (distribution costs) and limited USA refiners definitely makes the oil more expensive to them, and to us. Obviously they think it's better than brand -x, but..

[sawguy21]

Interesting read. Thanks.

[sharp edge]

I would like to add here the way i take care of the bar, might make people think if nothing else. I use a belt sander (1'x2') to keep all sides square and makes it easy to see a bow. Hammer on the full side takes it out. Also sand off the slippery paint on the clamp end and put a .030 tapper on it so the blade can't back up. I thought the chain was getting longer, but was the bar backing up is why i did that. I haven't seen much differents in bar oil. The one i liked the best was diesel rated oil and a little power graphide ($3.00 a # at farm&fleet) mixed in. The diesel oil keeps the hole open
 between the bar and saw, graphite once it gets on steel it stays there.
We have to be careful with are monies, there is a lot of "pie in the sky"sold all the time. If Stihl sells any i don't  know one way or the other.

[4woody]

i ues hydralikefluid i get it for free  an  i have found for milling the chain dnot gum up sometimes i might put a litle deisal in the oil

[oldsaw]

I primarily use Quaker State ($3.88 at Menard's), but have a few gallons of the old (better) Poulan oil in the tall jug, and some of the thinner Poulan oil in the short jug (cold days on the Aux oiler for milling), and have been buying some Husky oil at the local farm supply store, until they raised the price from $4.59 to $6.59.  Now I'll have to stick with the Quaker State.  Not too thin, not too thick, very sticky.  I've also got a couple of gallons of transmission fluid to get rid of, that may be my Aux Oil thinner someday.

Mark

[Corley5]

I've been using Poulan oil from Wal-Mart at $4.38 a gallon.  Works for me 

[PB Logging]

This is a question that has raged around here for years.  It extends to all of our lubricants.  With 14 pieces of rolling stock plus non-highway equipment the difference of $1 per gallon of oil has impact.  So whats the value of a brand name.  To date, no one has satifactorily answered that question around here be it bar oil, 15w40, 10w40, hydraulic, 90 weight, etc. 

Such being the case we use the cheapest oils available and are religous about fluid changes and maintainence.  With a fuel budget approaching 6 figures annually we are not seeing a down side to our lubricant policy.  I love talking with the AMS oil guy - I enjoy the science.  However, the economics of the situation support our cheap lube policy.  Perhaps, I sound like I'm getting off track here but this policy follows thru to the bar oil we use.

Bulk (55 gallon drum) oil purchase is no longer the deal it used to be so we buy 5 gallon Shell's Rotella 15w40 buckets for about $9.50 / gallon.  Our bar oil (who's brand name escapes me) costs us about $3.5 /gallon.  I have found that the O'Reilley's auto parts store in this area is kicking ass on their pricing when compared to the theiviing 8!@#%^&* at NAPA (average of 40% less on wholesale parts).  I mention this because O'Reilley's has ordered in this bar oil for us too with great pricing.

This is a subject very near and dear to me.  I'm looking forward to lots more opinions and science to back them up.

[jokers]

Hi PB,

I assume that when you state that you use the cheapest lubes available that you mean that you use the cheapest lubes that meet the specs for the particular equipment that you are using, no? I agree with this mentality, I don`t buy John Deere oil or New Holland oil or whatever anymore than I would insist upon going to the dealer to buy an OEM oil filter(unless mandated by the warranty). I always buy an equivalent replacement though. I do buy OEM two stroke oil from Stihl, Husky, and Echo since these are excellent oils and not significantly more expensive than their Wally World counterparts. I also have used Mobil MX2T for my saws because it is an outstanding oil that has an added benefit of decarbonizing a dirty engine. Every so often I`ll run a  batch of MX2T mixed gas through my saws.

Not all bar oils are equals in my experience, but I am not saying that you have to buy OEM. Just find a good one and stick with it. A non-OEM that I`ve been pleased with is Itasca which is available in both summer and winter weight.

I buy my Rotella at Sam`s club or BJ`s for ~ $46/case of six which comes out to roughly $7.66/gallon right? I just did the math in my head so hopefully I`m close, sometimes my head lies to me. 

[floorboy]

I have found that a soy based oil from e.l.m. company seems to work exceptionally well. in the time I've been using it the paint hasn't even worn off the bar!
 As far as the post on parafinic base as aposed to napthenic base oil there are some major differrences. The biggest draw back to a napthenic base is that it has the tendancy to dry out rubber seals. A large majority of the high end lubricants market uses a parafinic base or a synthetic base. The other major differrences come from the additives that are added or ommitted. In my opinion if you were to set down with an open mind and a sharp pencil you would see that the cheap oils you use in your equiptment are costing you more than you realize.  just my two cents.

[Corley5]

I've been using WoodsmanPro two cycle mix from Bailey's lately and after many gallons of gas through the saws they haven't blown up.  Guess it's good stuff    I've got some Jonsered mix on the shelf with fuel stabilizer that I use if I'm not going to use the whole batch of mix right up.  It costs considerably more and is why I'm using the stuff from Bailey's.  We run Rotella in all the farm tractors and Cummins trucks.

[parrisw]

I use Canadian Tire bar and chain oil, summer & winter, seems to be  working well for me, it does stick to the bar and chain very well, the chain is always very oily after cutting, it has good adhesion to the bar and chain.  But I do believe in useing high quality oil for the gas mix.  I run Amsoil Sabre professional at about 45:1

[snowman]

Changed the hydrolic oil in my tractor last summer, 10 gallons.I filtered it through a tight screen and used it in my saw all summer. Good stuff, no problems and FREE!!!!

[PB Logging]

How about some input on snowman's hydraulic oil use?  I'm all for recycling and we utilize a great deal of hydraulic oil.

[jokers]

I was using hydraulic oil for winter grade b&c oil for awhile until I had it pointed out to me by a lubrication engineer that hydraulic oil isn`t very slippery, or atleast by his account not a very good lube under those conditions, it is formulated for other properties. To be honest I`ve forgotten all of the particulars that he cited but I do know that once I stopped using the hydraulic oil the problems I was having with bar tips on laminated bars mostly went away. Coincidence? Could be, I don`t know.

[timberjack240]

i can tell a difference between husky oil and used motor oil the one 288 we have revs up faster with used m o  husky oil seems to make it hesistate a little nothin that slows production just a little noticable. i personally liek usin motor oil that way whille im sawin i can water proof my boots at the same time   

[arojay]

For cold weather I use my "waste" TGH oil and mix in some Husqvarna summer oil(30 WT).  I mix it with one of those paint mixers that are powered with electric drill.  Usually about one liter of bar oil to say 10 liters of TGH.  I use ESSO Hydraul 50 for the transmission/hydraulics and winch on my JD skidder and dozer.  Draining on recommended intervals gives me enough for the cold days of winter.  This seems to work for me from about -5 to -10 down to about -35 C. Then I stay home.

[mike39chef]

I have to agree with >parrisw<  i use the crappy tire oil for the bar and chain, but never for the 50:1 mix.  I use dealer oil exclusivly, plus the Husky oil has a stabilizer in it, great for my winter conditions in the great white north.

[jjmk98k]

For cold weather, i thought i read somewhere to mix a little kerosene in with the thicker Chain oil to allow it to flow better at around 30 degrees and colder?

[sawguy21]

Cutting chain oil with kerosene in cold weather is a common practice here. I only use chain oil in my saws, here it is still cheaper than oil pumps, bars and chains .

[joe_indi]

As rightlly pointed out  the oil needs to reach the bottom side of the bar and you need an oil which has some kind of 'anti-fling' added to it.
Viscosity is definitely an issue, the more viscous the oil the lesser the oil flow and results in under-lubrication.
If viscosity is too low the flow is high but the oil gets thrown off the nose.
I dont know if regulations forbid you from doing it but I have tried what I found to be the cheapest and most effective chain lube.
1 part 140 grade gear oil
2 parts vegetable oil
add kerosene or diesel 100ml or so(3oz.) to reduce viscosity if needed,
Gear oil has enough anti-fling agents in it so the lube definitely reaches the bottom side of the guide bar.
The chain runs much smoother and cooler.
Husqvarna recommends 90 grade gear oil as chain lube oil while Stihl says  and suitable grade of enine oil in case their lube oil is not available.

[jjmk98k]

I know the Husky oil is real clingy, especially when cold..... so is the Poulan PRO  red dyed oil at wally world

[Al_Smith]

My ,my what a difference the time span of a year and a half,the length of this thread,has,related to the prices of things.Stihl branded chain oil,for example has not raised nearly as much over this time span as others,or so it seems.

On that subject however,any petro based product has risen in price at an alarming rate .I think the days of 10 W 30 Valvoline at 69 cents a quart are gone forever,along with the 5 cent cigar and 25 cent hamburger.I'm gonna miss them.

[jjmk98k]

me being only 32, I remember the days of 97 cents a gallon for LEADED gas..... the McDonalds .29 cent burger days and when the Russians were our enemy!

And I never looked to see how old this topic was, but its always something we can talk / argue over.

[TexasTimbers]

When I started smoking I would take my 50¢ worth of lunch money and spend 45¢ on a pack of cigs and get a couple penny candies to cover my breath after school. When i quit smoking cigs were approaching $2 a pack. i hear you can pay over $5 now?
The Russians never were our enemies but the Russian government was, and still is our enemy because it supports our enemies.

As far as the bar chain oil this has been a great read. I have learned alot. I am trying to decide what bar oil to use on a 6' bar for cutting in a vertical position without additional oiling so I guess I need the same thing a regular bar needs. Lots of oil with lots of stickiness.

I have been using whatever I happen to be around when I need it. I currently have 3 different brands going. The Echo brand seems to stay in the truck. The Stihl gallon is in the shop and around the sawmill, and the Wally World Poulan is behind the seat in the skid steer. When it was real cold the Echo would come out in micro-clumps it seemed. Real clumpy. The Stihl was the same way. the poulan seend to come out smoother and stringy-er.

I have been told to consider using Lucas oil additive to the bar oil for the upright slabbing project. This sounds like a good idea to me and i am going to try it.

This has been a great thread.

[jjmk98k]

Good point, The Russian people were not / are not the enemy...

[Al_Smith]

In 1964 the price of regular gasoline was 27 cents a gallon.A pack of Camels,from a machine,was 25 cents,with two cents taped to the package,as change.A McDonalds hamburger was 15 cents.When Arbeys roast beef came on the scene,late 60's a giant sandwich was 49 cents,considered a bit high but the thing was huge.

The bar oil was around a buck and a half a gallon ,mid 70's.A big seller for a saw,the Mac pm 610 sold for $169.95 at K-Mart,late 70's.

Now,thinking back in history,the price of saws and gasoline,as much as I hate to admit it,have risen the least in terms of 2007 dollars.

[arojay]

What about adding something like STP?  Never tried it as I just use Husqvarna in summer(buy lots on spring sale price), but I thought about it while reading this thread.  No idea if it will 'mix'. I might just give it a try myself.

[TexasTimbers]

Al your memory is too good!  The two pennies taped to the camels is an interesting tidbit.

[Al_Smith]

Al your memory is too good!  The two pennies taped to the camels is an interesting tidbit.

Ha,I could fill this site up with trivia,saw related or otherwise.Back in the 2 cents on the Camel days,"Wings" were the cheap smokes,15 cents a pack.I think they were recycled cigar butts,yuck.Bugler sold 2 packs of "Rollins" with a belt roller for about 35 cents,as a promotional thing.

It may sound hard to believe but most people who used saws,did not sharpen thier own chains,and it was chipper chain too boot.The saws were mostly sold in this area by farm machinery dealers,who also did the repair work.It's sad to say but some of the farmers actually did run used crankcase oil for bar lube,cheap,I tell you,cheap.During the early 60's,the big names of course were McCulloch and Homelite and the brand loyalty was just as fierce then as it is now,some things never change.

[jonsered]

Dont know what all the fuss is about! For 15 years I have used every kind of oil I could get. Keeping an edge on your chain is far more important than the kind of oil! I only pay for chain oil to cover the warranty on a new saw when the guarintee is up any kind of oil will do. Save the price of the oil and buy a file never seen a bar overheat from any oil but see them distroyed by forcing a blunt chain.

[arojay]

The way I see it, chains are expendables, bars and rim sprockets are consumables, powerheads are equipment.  Lubes should not damage my equipment while extending the life of the expendables and consumables as far as economics can justify.  Oil just has to be able to pour at the temperature that I am working in and be clean enough to satisfy my oil pump in order to keep the powerhead happy.  All of my suppliers are about 100 miles away.  Husqvarna bar oil is about $12 Can. at my nearest dealer.  The major oil company distributors are not much cheaper.  I can buy at Walmart or a big box hardware, Canadian Tire, who have their own brands, but the quality seem to be inconsistent.  If I use Husqvarna oil I can turn my oiler down quite a bit and still get good lube results, but I'm paying a lot for the brand name.  The point is that if I can formulate a cheaper blend that gets decent results,and is very available,  I will use it.  From my perspective, the lube is working between chain and bar and chain segments.  Sharpness is always important to productivity, but it's a different discussion.

[Frickman]

My friend who I mentioned above, the one who wears out bars and chains when using Poulan oil, well, he figured out why. The Poulan oil foams up in the tank any time the temperature is above zero, which is most of the time. The oiler can't pump the foamed oil so the bar and chain wear out quickly. He went back to Stihl and hasn't had a problem.

I just put my first new bar on in about two years or so. With proper chain sharpening, chain tension, and lubrication a bar will last a long time.

[arojay]

I tried mixing stp in the big box oil the other day.  Seems to work great.  1 stp to 2 jugs of summer weight oil works out to about 9 bucks a jug.  As of yesterday, Husqvarna bar oil is now $14.95 a jug, if you were to buy singles!!!  Yes, a bar is hard to wear out if you look after the essentials.  I have had to replace a few that succumbed to blunt force trauma.  That really hurts when you know how long it would have lasted.

[jjmk98k]

Frickman,

can you explain the "foaming"? I sometimes (when I dont have Husqvarna oil) use Poulan Pro ( the red stuff) bar oil, but never had any problems or issues....

I just dont get how it can "foam" sitting in the tank...... or even when its pumped?

thanks, Jim

[Dale Hatfield]

My friend who I mentioned above, the one who wears out bars and chains when using Poulan oil, well, he figured out why. He went back to Stihl and hasn't had a problem.

I can agree on the poulan walmart oil wearing bars My carving bars a subject to alot of abuse. I had been usuing nothing but  Stihl oil. Only because i drove past them everyday. His price hit the sky so i went  with Wallyworld. Only to burn up 2 brand  new bars that would have lasted me  a year or longer at 60 and 80 bucks each
Dale

[jjmk98k]

hum, guess its another case of "getting what you pay for"..... or hows its perceived. 

Maybe Id be better off sticking with the Husqvarna stuff.

[Woodsroad]

...As of yesterday, Husqvarna bar oil is now $14.95 a jug, if you were to buy singles!!! 

Yipes.
Under $7/gal for Stihl bar oil, here in SE PA USA.

[arojay]

Yipes, that's something like what I said.  Husqvarna oil has gone up two bucks since early March.  They blame fuel surcharge on freight.  We are a long way from nowhere, but it still seems like a lot.  I wonder what guys are paying next door in Alaska, anyone out there?

[sawguy21]

You are getting hit by the infamous 'northern freight charge'. It retails for $10.99/ 4 litre jug, about one U.S. gallon, here but by the time we ship it to you yikes is right.  A larger dealer would be able to order enough to lessen the blow unless he is greedy.

[Knotdodger]

 Poulan bar oil is just under $7 a gallon 1 week ago at Meijers here in Midland Michigan!

[Frickman]

jjmk98k,

I didn't quite understand the foaming in the tank either, but my friend said that if you took the oil cap off after running the saw hard you could see some foam in the tank. I think where it really hurt the saw was that it foamed up in the oil pump and the oil didn't lubricate the bar properly. Perhaps some of the foam in the tank was just backwash off the oil pump inlet.

[Corley5]

I've had issues with tips on my Windsor bars that I've never had since I started this log job with the Poulan oil.  I'm thinking now that WalMart's Poulan oil may not be that good.  The bars don't show any any abnormal wear but the tips blow out.  I've got a couple Oregon bars that I'm gonna try to wear out with the cheap oil for a comparison before I try something more expensive.  I can also buy quite a few tips for the price difference in the oils.

[Michael]

Two things always go past my mind on these bar oil discussions;
1. Guys don't trust the used car oil to work in their $200 saw with a $20 oil pump when they have just taken it from a $15,000 car with a $200 oil pump. Anyone that thinks the tollerance in a saw oil pump is tighter than a vehicle oil pump is just plain wrong.
2. I bet half of you that say " I don't want that suspended metal from used motor oil in on my bar/chain", file your chain on the bar. Talk about metal filings!

[lmbeachy]

Michael; you do shed some new light on the discussion.

[jjmk98k]

Picked up four  1 gallon jugs of Husqvarna "low temp" bar and chain oil at a local flea market this past saturday for $4.00 a gallon.

[maple flats]

You know, it never dawned on me that i was hurting the bar or chain by filing the chain on the bar. It sure sems valed. BUT I get great life from my bars and I have always filed on the saw. I must say that I sometimes wear a chain faster that i think it should, this might be the filing in place causing that. But I likely will continue because the time saved more than pays for the chain I need to replace. I may be looking at it wrong but that is how i see it. As far as bar oil I have always used the heavy weight low price bar oli and if it need thinning for real cold temps I use a little kerosene or deisel if I don't have kero. I have always found that the biggest wear factor IMHO was hitting dirt or cutting into a rotten log, which dulles the teeth instantly and also seems to wear the chain linkage at the rivets, likely the bar too but bars have not been a problem for me. I do file bars, regularly clean the groove and use a rail closer when needed and as soon as needed.

[inspectorwoody]

How else are you to file a saw chain with a round file if not mounted on the bar attached to the power head? Obviously you are going to take it off if you are using a bench grinder but how are you suppose to sharpen your chain in the middle of the timber during a harvest? I can't believe they would market a stump vise just because.

[jokers]

Two things always go past my mind on these bar oil discussions;
1. Guys don't trust the used car oil to work in their $200 saw with a $20 oil pump when they have just taken it from a $15,000 car with a $200 oil pump. Anyone that thinks the tollerance in a saw oil pump is tighter than a vehicle oil pump is just plain wrong.
2. I bet half of you that say " I don't want that suspended metal from used motor oil in on my bar/chain", file your chain on the bar. Talk about metal filings!

Hi Mike,

I generally value your experience and opinion but I see the problem as being the suspended carbon and possible chemically corrosive stuff in used motor oil as being the real culprits that make the use of used motor oil false economy. Another factor is that the lubricity of the oil is generally diminished by the time it is removed from service and used motor oil is a known carcinogen so I can`t really understand vaporizing it on my bar & chain and introducing it to the air I`m breathing. Just one of my two cents.

As to filing on the bar, sure there are a ton of metal filings that could wear the bar and chain but obviously they don`t go backward into the oil pump. I also believe that those metal filings are mostly thrown or scrubbed off with the first rotation of the chain and that the particle size is too big for them to take a reverse path into the oil clearances on a bar or chain while the saw is in use. Neither will filing on the bar cause a concentration of sulfur in the oil tank. Food for thought  eh? On the other hand, I suppose that $200 dollar saws probably have chemically inert plastic oil tanks? 

[Nikko]

We experimented a bit last year, using petroleum based oils and vegetable based oils for milling (home made Alaskan style). We'll run through 1/2 gallon a day with no trouble and started to feel a bit guilty about flinging the petroleum stuff everywhere, thus the investigation to the vegetable stuff.

We found a product by these guys Green bar lube and put it to the test.

Without a doubt the bar/chain ran cooler with this product, and not just by a little bit. It took some fiddling to get the flow rate from the aux oiler and when all was said and done, we used a bit more veggy oil when compared to the petroleum based stuff.

But our bar required far less attention over time, as did the chain. We didn't fling the stuff everywhere as we'd initially thought we would and felt a LOT better about the odd inevitable puddle we left behind. 

You pay more for this stuff, but I just bought a 5 gallon pail as it's so hard to come by - the local shop keeps selling out and the factory is having a tough time keeping up.

Not affiliated (at all) etc. etc. etc...
Nikko

[arojay]

Re-used motor oil?  I hear this quite often, mostly from guys who are running an old homelite with manual oiler, cut about 3 cords of firewood a year and are still using the chain they got with the saw back in '75.  What I always wonder is, if this used motor oil is so good, why not just put it back in the engine it came from?  Another couple of cents.

[oldsaw]

Bought 3 gallons of Husky oil from my local hardware emporium/Husky dealer who went out of business.  I'd have bought more, but it was only slightly less (only had quarts) than what I pay per gallon for Quaker State.  Still not much of a deal.  Back up to 8 or 9 gallons, and I gave one to Dad.

I guess I never paid attention to the color of the Poulan oil.  I just noticed that the stuff in the short gallon bottles was much thinner than the stuff in the older tall gallons.  Don't like it nearly as much as the old stuff. 

Mark

[sawguy21]

It usually is more expensive in the smaller containers. We can only get Stihl medium in 1 litre containers, everything else comes in 4 litre jugs.

[jjmk98k]

lots-o-milage out of this post

[dundee]

Interesting topic, mills downunder are using Canola oil for their band blades, comments are: less change of blades per shift, the blade lasts longer and less build up of resin on the teeth and gullets , I have never been game to use Canola in my chainsaw though

[sawguy21]

Hunters here use it in the saws for quartering moose. I really don't think I want to try that.

[MrJim]

no, oil is not oil. 

Too thin and it will not flow to the bar, as it will find a crack and leak out on its way to the bar.

Stihl does have bio-degradeable oil, tho I have not tried it.

Now in semi warm weather is Stihl worth the difference between them and poluan?  Not sure.

Now oil is one thing Stihl does not make,  but if it is too cheap, it might be worth what you paid.

Why couldn't someone just use vegetable oil - kinda like using biodiesel in a truck?  Oil is oil for bar lube, right?